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@Alrah said
"I think that sometimes people get a little too hung up on the martial aspect of Geburah without taking account of it's other attribute. Once the fighting is done then the other attribute that comes online is active reverence."

I thought "fighting" was only one aspect of Geburah. What about the intense discipline that Geburah brings? That would seem to make it the perfect counter-point for the expansive, jovian, out-pouring energy of Chesed. Also that same discipline reflects, on a lower level, the initial restriction of Binah with regard to Chokmah. In my opinion it's one of the things that makes Geburah such a perfect fit on the Pillar of Severity."

When it comes to the Tree or the Palaces I like to have things rooted in the tradition. I'm not interested in Chaos Magic.

Thus I suggested the idea of 'Reverence' in respect of Geburah due to a Hekhalot text from antiquity (or it may have been the Zohar actually... I mention it on the thread on Liber 231 of this forum.)

I'll be happy to discuss with you what you think is a Geburah quality of discipline if you can reference a main text in Judaic literature that directly ascribes this quality of discipline to Geburah.

"I think that sometimes people get a little too hung up on the martial aspect of Geburah without taking account of it's other attribute. Once the fighting is done then the other attribute that comes online is active reverence."

I thought "fighting" was only one aspect of Geburah. What about the intense discipline that Geburah brings? That would seem to make it the perfect counter-point for the expansive, jovian, out-pouring energy of Chesed. Also that same discipline reflects, on a lower level, the initial restriction of Binah with regard to Chokmah. In my opinion it's one of the things that makes Geburah such a perfect fit on the Pillar of Severity.

"I would render both the Hebrew QTNVTh, qatanoth, and the Latin parvitatio as "little things," as in "a whole lotta parts [of something].""

Thanks for this, Jim. It's very helpful. Especially the last part which provided context for the "little things." As soon as I read that, with the Martial theme still in mind, I instantly thought of individual soldiers forming an army.

Then looking at the number 565 at the top of the page I thought how curious it was that there were two microcosmic 5's joined to a big macrocosmic 6. It was a bit of an "aha!" moment.
Thank you.

@Jim Eshelman said

"BTW you probably get a martial feel from the number because it is 5 x 113. Any multiple of 5 is going to have a Geburan quality about it and, in this case, the other factor, 113, is the value of PLG, Phaleg, the Olympic Planetary Spirit of Mars."

Ahh, I hadn't noticed this. Now my initial intuitive feelings about this number make more sense.

"Don't you think that this is (at least, mostly) Chesed as the peace-time successor to the Geburan action?"

No, I don't Jim. Reverence is a very active function, not the passive one which is the hallmark of Chesed. Infact, excessive reverence can be a cause of new war. So there is a cyclic active dynamic at work.

In the psycho-dynamics of Chesed, no active movement is possible as there is no opposite to fight with or revere. We might think of the Buddha who said he had no enemies even though people were running around trying to kill him; possible due to the fact that the Buddha had let go of the image of himself. With Geburah, there is still the minimal 'image', so peace is cyclic; reflective; and subject to time.

I might express it differently going the other way, but essentially that's the nut.

"BTW you probably get a martial feel from the number because it is 5 x 113. Any multiple of 5 is going to have a Geburan quality about it and, in this case, the other factor, 113, is the value of PLG, Phaleg, the Olympic Planetary Spirit of Mars."

I think that sometimes people get a little too hung up on the martial aspect of Geburah without taking account of it's other attribute. Once the fighting is done then the other attribute that comes online is active reverence. i.e. - when the Greeks finish fighting they erect a triumphal arch to a God/Goddess and pay reverence. When the herbrew's are done fighting then up goes a pillar or an arch to praise Hadad or Yahweh. At the end of WW2; memorials everywhere and a profound reverence was expressed to the soldiers who had fought and lost their lives. Active reverence seems to be as much a flavour of Geburah as it's martial aspect, and I think it perhaps explains some of the fanaticism we sometimes see connected with Babalon.

It happened that I found the palace that becomes Geburah is called the palace of reverence in one text, and it seems to fit. As for the 'small things'... I think reverence is best witnessed in small but mindful acts of observance in the reverential one, perhaps more than big one off public displays.

I find the root QTN meaning "little, small" (the same as the Latin parvus). First impression is that the whole word means "small things." Digging further, I explicitly find a modern Hebrew feminine adjective QTNH, qatanah, meaning "little, small."

I would render both the Hebrew QTNVTh, qatanoth, and the Latin parvitatio as "little things," as in "a whole lotta parts [of something]."

BTW you probably get a martial feel from the number because it is 5 x 113. Any multiple of 5 is going to have a Geburan quality about it and, in this case, the other factor, 113, is the value of PLG, Phaleg, the Olympic Planetary Spirit of Mars.

I would suggest looking at the individual Hebrew characters for the number 565,
And the word. I would then find the corresponding Tarot cards and reflect on them. That's what I would do.

Forget I ever asked.

Vitatio = shunning or avoidance?

I'm kinda beginning to see a connection back to 'guarding' here. But I'm still missing something.