A question about "Ra-Hoor-Khuit"
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I see that not much can be said, disproving my current understanding... It is really mindblowing that Crowley himself never considered this idea...
I might bring it to the world...
Thanks fellow bretheren!
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"I see that not much can be said, disproving my current understanding... It is really mindblowing that Crowley himself never considered this idea..."
Who says he never considered it?
I'm not saying he did. I'm saying that all sorts of things went through his head at different times.
It would be safe to say he never developed the idea.
There is, of course, the basic thing that Horus (all forms) is well established as a male deity. Also, the pre-gendered "child" aspects don't really apply, because RHK is a mature child, not a prepubertal child. And Crowley quite frequently developed the idea that Harpocrates is the "feminine" pair of the two (even though, as a prepubertal, "genderless" is probably more accurate.
Nonetheless, gender is entirely a matter of convenience in matters of the gods (or of supernal matters in general). I took your question exactly at face value: Could any disprove your idea. And my answer is no, of course not, one can never disprove such a thing. It's a matter of convenience and utility. And THAT principle, I think is the key point.
Even Nuit, who is always portayed as a goddess to us, is ultimately no different from the Greek Uranus, except that Uranus is a god. The Egyptian Seb is male, but is substantially the same as the Greek Gaea, who is female. It's Thursday, we must be in Vienna.
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"ABRAHADABRA" - the reward of Ra-Hoor-Khuit -
Essentially meaning "I speak ; I create"
Implying Ra-Hoor has spoken and thus is masculine
At least that is what came to mind at this moment
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@Jim Eshelman said
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@The_Hawkheaded_child said
"I see that not much can be said, disproving my current understanding... It is really mindblowing that Crowley himself never considered this idea..."Who says he never considered it?
I'm not saying he did. I'm saying that all sorts of things went through his head at different times.
It would be safe to say he never developed the idea."
True.
@Jim Eshelman said
"There is, of course, the basic thing that Horus (all forms) is well established as a male deity. Also, the pre-gendered "child" aspects don't really apply, because RHK is a mature child, not a prepubertal child. And Crowley quite frequently developed the idea that Harpocrates is the "feminine" pair of the two (even though, as a prepubertal, "genderless" is probably more accurate."
I think of Harpocrates "Heru-pa-kraath" (This is correct right?) as a MALE immature child - as depicted on the tarot - corresponding somewhat with Chesed, mercy, peace, and humbleness. And of Ra-Hoor-Khuit as this Mature FEMALE warrior-Godess, corresponding somewhat with Geburah, strengh, severity and war.
She has been treated badly for centuries and is very angry; two world wars is her sign...
I see Ra-Hoor-Khuit as an extension of Hoor-paar-kraath, just as Binah is an extension of Chokma, or Nuit an extension of Hadit etc. But then, my esoteric knowledge is shallow and my qabalistic homework, badly done...
But please, let me continue:
The following verses from TBOTL - seem to point to the fact that Hadit, "the core of every star", correspond with Harpocrates - in other words: Harpocrates =Hadit (?):
*7. I am the Magician and the Exorcist. I am the axle of the wheel, and the cube in the circle. "Come unto me" is a foolish word: for it is I that go.
- Who worshipped Heru-pa-kraath have worshipped me; ill, for I am the worshipper.*
The last verse seem to tell us that Harpocrates corresponds with Hadit and can't be worshipped, since it is acctually him being the worshipper! And if Hadit = Harpocrates then musn't Harpocrates be a male principle?
Let me also point to the sufix: Ra-hoor-KHUIT, resembling/sounding like the female principle NUIT, and also the "KHU" part, compared to the male principles like HADIT, KHABS etc.
I don't have the knowledge to really prove my point, but if I would proclaim TBOTL and Thelema to the world... I would let her be known as a Godess, my inner feeling for this being the truth, won't change... My innermost self refuses to change it's mind about this being the truth, and it's sickens me not being able to actually prove it...
Perhaps I got things mixed up here... I'm just a poor beggar; and not very knowledgeable about these matters...
Please will you straight things out for me?
Thanks!
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"Nuit an extension of Hadit etc."
"My innermost self refuses to change it's mind about this being the truth, and it's sickens me not being able to actually prove it..."
Red alarm.
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@Patrick Ossoski said
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@The_Hawkheaded_child said
"Nuit an extension of Hadit etc." "You are right... I really shouldn't discuss these complicated matters!
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"The following verses from TBOTL - seem to point to the fact that Hadit, "the core of every star", correspond with Harpocrates - in other words: Harpocrates =Hadit (?):
*7. I am the Magician and the Exorcist. I am the axle of the wheel, and the cube in the circle. "Come unto me" is a foolish word: for it is I that go.
- Who worshipped Heru-pa-kraath have worshipped me; ill, for I am the worshipper.*"
I see that differently than you do: I don't take this as idenitfying the two, but as saying that in the course of "worshipping the god of silence," one worships Hadit. (Indeed, it is easy to observe that a sufficient depth of "silence," or stillness, of the body, intellect, and emotions does disclose progressively deeper aspects of oneself.)
"Let me also point to the sufix: Ra-hoor-KHUIT, resembling/sounding like the female principle NUIT, and also the "KHU" part, compared to the male principles like HADIT, KHABS etc."
It seems to me that the simplest understanding of the name is that Ra-Hoor-Khu is a particular expression of Ra-Hoor that is a Khu, i.e., is cast in the inner aspect of a human ("god made in man's image," as I like to joke). The -IT ending, in the context of Liber L., is a general deific terminative.
"I don't have the knowledge to really prove my point, but if I would proclaim TBOTL and Thelema to the world... I would let her be known as a Godess, my inner feeling for this being the truth, won't change... My innermost self refuses to change it's mind about this being the truth, and it's sickens me not being able to actually prove it... "
"Do as thou wilt shall be the whole of the Law.
However, getting sickened over it does seem outside the tone of The Book. No need to get sick. Just stand up for your point of view! Choose ye an island and fortify it.
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@Patrick Ossoski said
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@The_Hawkheaded_child said
"Nuit an extension of Hadit etc." "You are right... I really shouldn't discuss these complicated matters!
"Not my point at all. You just seemed to have gotten that part wrong.
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@Jim Eshelman said
"I see that differently than you do: I don't take this as idenitfying the two, but as saying that in the course of "worshipping the god of silence," one worships Hadit. (Indeed, it is easy to observe that a sufficient depth of "silence," or stillness, of the body, intellect, and emotions does disclose progressively deeper aspects of oneself.)
"Could that not be said of any worship : that by becoming the worshiper, one comes to be Hadit?
As if to say worshiping, seeing something as holy is to see things as Hadit would
Even in the "silence & stillness" we are still hurtling through space, "going forth in silence" -
I came across this piece of art, showing an interpretation of Ra-Hoor Khuit in female form.
www.cartmanager.net/cgi-bin/cart.cgi?CartID=ThelesisAura;showPart=AW1003
Blah!