Does Choronzon have True Will?
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Not sure if this question has an answer for any certainty, but have been pondering it lately and thought I would see how others would rassle with it.
cheers
Is the essence of dispersion singularly focused and directed?
OTOH is being the essence of dispersion a singular gig?
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Not sure if this question has an answer for any certainty, but have been pondering it lately and thought I would see how others would rassle with it.
cheers
Thank you Jim, those are more articulate questions - it would appear that dispersion is the opposite of intention from the perspective of True Will - but here is my curiosity....true will is to unify the opposites.
oye - this is not a subject one should be overthinking
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Not sure if this question has an answer for any certainty, but have been pondering it lately and thought I would see how others would rassle with it.
cheers
@ldfriend56 said
"oye - this is not a subject one should be overthinking
"With Mr. 333, that's precisely what you shouldn't be doing
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Not sure if this question has an answer for any certainty, but have been pondering it lately and thought I would see how others would rassle with it.
cheers
Here's an excerpt with most of my summary remarks on Choronzon from my book Visions & Voices.
"In the highly tolerant philosophy of Thelema, it is difficult to conceive of an out-and-out “devil.” Devils in most historic religions commonly bear the names of the gods of conquered enemies, or express the shadow-face of one’s highest ideals. (Consider the root meaning of devil, “to slander, to attack,” a candid admission of the projections it embodies.) But, as a philosophy that commonly sees beyond theological dualism and broadly accepts that “each thing is right in the right place” – that has sometimes been confused with Satanism mostly because it is not anti-Satanic – Thelema would seem fairly immune to such demonizing.
Its adherents, on the other hand, are not so immune – not even Thelema’s prophet and chief proponent. To give expression to the shadow-face of Thelema, with its preeminent doctrine of Will (and Will’s intimate companion, Love), enter the great arch-demon Choronzon, embodiment of the Anti-Will and alien to love!
[...]
Crowley transliterated this name into Hebrew as ChVRVNZVN = 333. He was taken with the correspondences of this number in Greek: akolasia, “incontinence, dispersion,” and akrasia, “incontinence”; in other words, lack of concentration and control. (The Anti-Will!) Crowley seems not to have known, that, in Hebrew, 333 is also the value of HChShK, “the darkness,” and ChShChVTH, “the slaughtered.” All in all, a perfectly serviceable devil.
Choronzon is also a practical embodiment the Qabalistic idea of Da’ath, which literally means “Knowledge.” [Then follows a discussion of Da'ath, the evolutionary emergence of Ruach, a bit of the Abyss, etc., culminating with:] Notice how this state describes Choronzon, whose name symbolically means incontinence and dispersion!
[...]
Victory over the dispersion of Choronzon is in the unfathomable love represented in these visions by the goddess Babalon."
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Not sure if this question has an answer for any certainty, but have been pondering it lately and thought I would see how others would rassle with it.
cheers
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Not sure if this question has an answer for any certainty, but have been pondering it lately and thought I would see how others would rassle with it.
cheers
I figure any thought I have about the matter can only be about half right at best. I'd be like Achilles chasing the tortoise (who has a head start). If I'm struggling against dispersion with more dispersion, I'm just dividing the battleground into smaller and smaller bits, but not making any real progress.
I'm happy to let Choronzon do the chopping work, like a nice mulcher, and grind the things within its reach to a nice, fine humus. The tulips will find the results delicious.
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Not sure if this question has an answer for any certainty, but have been pondering it lately and thought I would see how others would rassle with it.
cheers
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Not sure if this question has an answer for any certainty, but have been pondering it lately and thought I would see how others would rassle with it.
cheers
"Victory over the dispersion of Choronzon is in the unfathomable love represented in these visions by the goddess Babalon.
"While Choronzon may be the opposite of unity - Choronzon fulfills a purpose here on the path to unity for the adept, no?
What inspired my question are recent events with someone dear in my life - struggling with their own ego narcissism and addictions. Abyss and choronzon are useful allegories that allow us to focus our intentions in the right place - no doubt about that. To me - the allegory is useful as a symbol of the irrational and crazed mind, reversing and switching, confusing the opposites. War is Peace. Light is Dark. False is True. Is it the true will of confusion to be confused? Is it the true will of anti will to disperse both thelema and agape? Seems like the question may be more enlightening than any possible answer.
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Not sure if this question has an answer for any certainty, but have been pondering it lately and thought I would see how others would rassle with it.
cheers
@ldfriend56 said
"While Choronzon may be the opposite of unity - Choronzon fulfills a purpose here on the path to unity for the adept, no?"
Or, one might better say, I think, that the fiction we call Choronzon serves a purpose throughout the whole life up to a certain point. The confrontation is at a point that one may be ready to move past it.
"To me - the allegory is useful as a symbol of the irrational and crazed mind, reversing and switching, confusing the opposites."
Yes. You mean what passes for "normal, sane mind" most of the time, yes?
"Is it the true will of confusion to be confused?"
It seems to me a bad use of language to think of a true will of an incoherent thing.
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Not sure if this question has an answer for any certainty, but have been pondering it lately and thought I would see how others would rassle with it.
cheers
This is close to where I was leading to myself - thank you so much for this Jim!
