Solo Tantra
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@Takamba said
" Tantra is a full system, not just sex magick. As was said earlier, anyone reading AC will figure out that Thelema is tantra."
Yes.
Being into Tantra for as long as I can remember (and still learning), reading on/offline that people equate Tantra with sex rituals, always evokes a smile to my face.
Only in as shallow and f***ed up a culture as ours here in the West is, elaborated and advanced system like Tantra could be bought simply as sex.
There is sooooooo much more to Tantra.
Oh yes, Thelema is "just" a modern expression of the ancient teachings of Tantric masters.
'Yoni tantra' says it all, offering the concept of the "Will" centuries before A.C. and freely sharing the most secret and oh-my-gods stuff of the O.T.O.
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When one stays on mental force, the lower adjustement is instant. But if one falls, one falls back to the corresponding laws. There are different laws on different planes, though they are one too. The yin and the yang oscilation is maintained.
The more subtle mecanism, the more it applies on higher plane because all laws converge to The Law.
When it is clear, no time is wasted. Even past is transformed.
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@Hermes said
"When one stays on mental force, the lower adjustement is instant. But if one falls, one falls back to the corresponding laws. There are different laws on different planes, though they are one too. The yin and the yang oscilation is maintained.
The more subtle mecanism, the more it applies on higher plane because all laws converge to The Law.
When it is clear, no time is wasted. Even past is transformed."
I agree.
Well said.And embracing the whole of Tantra (not only sex rituals), one might advance really rapidly, going really high...
...and if one screwes up the Tantric ritual(s), the fall is also very rapid and deep.Dangerous path Tantra is or can be.
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@Frater INRI said
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@Hermes said
"When one stays on mental force, the lower adjustement is instant. But if one falls, one falls back to the corresponding laws. There are different laws on different planes, though they are one too. The yin and the yang oscilation is maintained.The more subtle mecanism, the more it applies on higher plane because all laws converge to The Law.
When it is clear, no time is wasted. Even past is transformed."
I agree.
Well said.And embracing the whole of Tantra (not only sex rituals), one might advance really rapidly, going really high...
...and if one screwes up the Tantric ritual(s), the fall is also very rapid and deep.Dangerous path Tantra is or can be."
It reminds me the mecanism of speech and secrecy. Breaking the rules if done right is actually very good. It can make one "jump" straight to the next thing. But it can also be a mistake whose effects take much time to correct ! The more powerful the technique the more good or harm will happen.
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@Hermes said
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It reminds me the mecanism of speech and secrecy. Breaking the rules if done right is actually very good. It can make one "jump" straight to the next thing. But it can also be a mistake whose effects take much time to correct ! The more powerful the technique the more good or harm will happen."
Oh yes Hermes,
I agree.Well said.
The same applies to our rituals and intentions / articulated Will,
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@Takamba said
"For one thing, of course, tantra isn't only about the sexual practices. Tantra itself is the confrontation or resolutions of opposites. Love an ugly woman until she is beautiful to you, love a beautiful woman until she is ugly to you. Then you begin to see the solutions to your personality constructs. Then you see that all is illusion and you are the master."
But one has to use one's own arousal "energy" so one has to get aroused by someone that one finds attractive so I don't understand your point.
By the way the mechanical animal (human all too human) approach to sex of "fuck her" and "shoot your load" and "do her" leads to an imbalance in the relationship to the sexes doesns't it? Tantra should restore the balance once more where a man who holds back orgasm is helped by a woman who understands what he's trying to achieve so that the 2 are aiming to mutually attain a 3rd factor i.e. cosmic consciousness/mind expansion.
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@gerry456 said
"I don't understand your point. "
You don't understand my point because you're still acting as if Tantra is only about sexual activity. Tantra is a full tradition of Buddhist or Hindu (depending on tradition) practices, rituals, meditations, and scriptures. Many of the practices that Crowley describes for the A.'.A.'. are in fact westernized Tantric practices. The meditations he describes, the practices he describes, the ways of the A.'.A.'. designed to free the aspirant from egoistic bondage and personal prejudices are all Tantric practices. Tantric Sex (sex magick or sacred sex or whatever you want to call it) is only a very small portion of Tantric studies and is reserved for the season practitioner.
Also, if you are practicing "sex magick" and thinking about sex at the time you shoot your "talisman" forth, you're doing it wrong.
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I did 45 minutes of 25 plateaus Monday night and I was in a rapture state all night and well into Tuesday day. I did 11 plateaus last night. I've been keeping th Lingam Brathing up also.
How do you avoid being doe-eyes and looking high? I don't want work mates to think I'm stoned.
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I would suggest calming down the brathing (old english for boiling, steaming, violent frothing) and breathing a little more.
But seriously, as with all things - earthing, grounding, bringing one's self back is as vital as the practices that take you there.
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@Takamba said
"I would suggest calming down the brathing (old english for boiling, steaming, violent frothing) and breathing a little more.
But seriously, as with all things - earthing, grounding, bringing one's self back is as vital as the practices that take you there."
That's good advice and besides, my shoulder is aching too. Yeah there's the stoking the fire in the crucible and then there's the coolant phase.
I feel like I'm leaving normal society behind i.e. most men (may love their partners but they) just want to just fuck their wives and girlfriends to get the job done and achieve ejaculation. The remainder, i.e. men who are in sorrow and frustration are part of that game but they feel like losers because they never got to do the woman of their dreams, to ejaculate in her or on her body. "Be not animal ; refine thy rapture".
By the way here's something I do ; when I see a hot woman I feel aroused so, at that moment I squeeze my prostrate and sphincta, count to five and then release the muscles/exhale. What do you make of that as an exercise?
I found this on a tantra website;
*In cases where working with a partner in tantric sexual relations is difficult due to strong lustful habits, it might be benefical to work alone for a while, establishing a good routine of "right-handed" practices -- meditation, spinal breathing, mulabandha, siddhasana, and so on. There can be good stimulation of sexual energy for yoga in sitting practices. Solo masturabation could also be explored in tantric mode, if you are already inclined toward it. In that case, when you masturbate, see if you can develop a habit of staying in front of orgasm using the solo version of the holdback method. With all this, in time, your desire for lustful pleasure will lose some of its luster. That is because the inner spiritual pleasure will be coming up more and more, and it is very sastifying, not just for the moment, but ongoing day and night.
*I feel like i'm getting closer to this sexual-spiritual sacrifice of lower pleasure which is years and years and years of conditioning. Surely this lower pleasure is the "judgement of RHK", spoken of in Al?
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I don't know about defining the "direful judgments" just yet.
It's good that you practice something when your animal lust's eyes pick on something, but be aware that any behavior you conduct is a reinforcement of the behavior that preceded it - so in short: if objectifying or sexualizing women is something you believe you aught not do, reinforcing that experience with a rewarding experience is counter-productive to your aim (I say this because I find Kegel exercises very pleasurable).
I certainly like the quote you gave.
You are correct that if you continue on this path, you are leaving normal male society behind. You are finding exactly that which is described as "the Goddess in every woman." I remind you of how I entered this conversation: Imagination is the largest sexual organ. Love an ugly woman until she is beautiful to you. Love a beautiful woman until she is ugly to you. That may not make sense just yet, but when you get there you will know. I recommend finding the most unattractive thing you can find (person, place, or thing) and get yourself done with finding it unattractive. Get yourself to start finding it attractive. When you have succeeded at this in several cases, you will have learned what the real "direful judgments" are all about and how to avoid them. (Or at least you'll learn that you can avoid them if you want to.)
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@Takamba said
"I don't know about defining the "direful judgments" just yet.
It's good that you practice something when your animal lust's eyes pick on something, but be aware that any behavior you conduct is a reinforcement of the behavior that preceded it - "
I appreciate that but i do this Lingam Breathnig when alone and in other situations also so the reinforcement danger is nullified therefore.
@Takamba said
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(I say this because I find Kegel exercises very pleasurable).
"Ok.
@Takamba said
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I certainly like the quote you gave.
)"Yeah it's good.
@Takamba said
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You are correct that if you continue on this path, you are leaving normal male society behind. )"Yeah we are few. This is going to be interesting living among a society of the horny and the sex-frustrated and the game-playing animal robot people. I was one of them too for decades so I hope to develop compassion for them as i go on.
@Takamba said
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You are finding exactly that which is described as "the Goddess in every woman." "Not yet, i still have a bit of that sex-object mentality that normal larval- man has.
@Takamba said
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I remind you of how I entered this conversation: Imagination is the largest sexual organ. Love an ugly woman until she is beautiful to you. Love a beautiful woman until she is ugly to you. That may not make sense just yet, but when you get there you will know. I recommend finding the most unattractive thing you can find (person, place, or thing) and get yourself done with finding it unattractive. Get yourself to start finding it attractive. When you have succeeded at this in several cases, you will have learned what the real "direful judgments" are all about and how to avoid them. (Or at least you'll learn that you can avoid them if you want to.)"it doesn't make sense as i have to watch porn (attractive women) in order to get myself started in solo tantra work.
On the reintegration of repulsion; I have already tried this Crowleyan exercise of facing what my conditioned personality didn't find comfortable. This included watching gay porn, watching brain surgery and heart surgery footage. i also watched a video of a cockroach giving birth, a documentary on giant rats and a video of tarantula feeding time. I also took a walk around the "bad part of town" and at night. Basically it came to nothing. It was like, so what, i'm facing my squeamishness and controlling my wince-reactions. Ultimately it was unpleasant and probably unnecessary. It never transformed my personality for the better. I don't think it did anyway.
One other point, tantric sex activity is a ritual It's sacred, which is why I pray to Nuit, Hadit and Horus before and after it. It turns on Leary's rapture-circuit so the afterglow involves impaired judgement like smoking weed. I don't recommend driving a car, straight after a tantra session.
Thanks.
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@gerry456 said
" one has to get aroused by someone that one finds attractive"
One has to get aroused by what is most useful to the great work.
As far as i know(far from all
)one estabilshes the yin and the yang in all things until everything except HGA(in that regard) becomes a mistake. Then can happen KCHGA. How could it happen if you have not tried every other possibility before? There would be a doubt persisting. Though all mistakes must happen before, one can limit the negative effects by being firstly as focused and sincere intention wise, then find ways to gain time, and to avoid actual manifestations of mistakes when possible. Balance these and advance with care, like a hermit who carries a lamp in the night. At the same time seek speed of advancement, and in the most safe way possible.And use the mistakes as catalyst for will. If you feel sometimes desperate and lonely, well it is true. Until you achieve KCHGA it is true. No woman, or money, or even magickal powers will satisfy you in that regard. There is no other possible way to happiness. Not even Nuit as a part of Nuit herself wants you to get this job done before further knowledge of Nuit.
Then when united, the awareness of the union must increase and manifest more and more. It is not the end of all problems
Ordeals are adjusted to the level of the practicioner. Big level=big ordeals . Though once KCHGA is achieved one is at least "in peace" in that specific regard.If you precise a little bit nature and awareness of HGA it can help in that regard. It is never too early. At least if you do so it will help a lot on the deepest level, you will never fall back "too down". You will remember "hey, i know where i'm going". And ask for help in prayer when in desperation. Like the ancient jews, when in trouble they prayed, and forgot to pray when everything was fine. Well it is way better to do so than to not pray at all.
Also desperation and feeling forsaken "hits" the lower body even "lower" than sexuality, it is survival kind of urge. Thus very good for "coaching the devil". Then progressively the devil will dance in harmony will all other animals in the arch.
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@gerry456 said
"It was like, so what, i'm facing my squeamishness and controlling my wince-reactions."
That is part of the work.
@gerry456 said
"Ultimately it was unpleasant and probably unnecessary."
It should have started out most unpleasant. It shouldn't have ultimately ended that way. If it did, you didn't take it far enough.
@gerry456 said
"It never transformed my personality for the better."
"For the better" might be getting in the way here unless you're understanding it in the sense of "less influenced by psychological complexes". Did facing and conquering the squeamishness of witnessing a cockroach birth transform your personality into one that is no longer ruled by that negative reaction? If the answer is no, you didn't take it far enough. If the answer is yes, then you transformed your personality for the better.
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Gnosomai it was a neutralizatoiom so yeah maybe it was a succesful reintegration. Its all physiological, which is very "crowleyan" ie there is an autopsy and all types of surgery on youtube as well as movies of cockroaches and giant rats and watching this should produce an urge to flinch. Its a form of yoga.
What about you man, how are the orgasm-holdbacks going?
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@gerry456 said
" watching this should produce an urge to flinch. "
Should? By what metric?
@gerry456 said
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What about you man, how are the orgasm-holdbacks going?"It's not currently a part of my dedicated practice. I work in a session every now and then to keep the machinery toned but, if anything, I'm working on the opposite at the moment.
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Ehm, I wouldnt want to rain on anyone's parade here, but to really advance in Tantra
initiation and guidance of a Master is needed.Inri
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@Gnosomai Emauton said
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@gerry456 said
" watching this should produce an urge to flinch. "Should? By what metric?
."Congrats man, if you can watch the aforementioned videos without flinching.
I just want to add to my earlier points about misunderstanding about what Tantra is as I remembered something. Takamba raised this point i.e. Tantra is not only about "lasting longer" with your sex partner or yourself. It's about reintegrating our repulsions and aversions. Some say this is attaining "ultimate reality" i.e. non-dual perceptions. I am a hetero guy so watching gay porn for me was a task. Now, I am not prejudiced, one of my best friends is gay and I've taken flak for hanging out with him. Anyway I put my gay porn watching episodes in my diary and I noticed that when I went out I was getting closer to non dualism moreso. I would see women about in society at the shops etc but my desire -reaction was under wraps i.e. their bodies were becoming yin of the Tao; "form" of the God/Goddess behind form. Call it Siva, Shakti or Kali or whatever.
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@gerry456 said
"Congrats man, if you can watch the aforementioned videos without flinching."
I'm not intending these questions as some sort of comparison or competition, I'm attempting to get you to look at the way you're presenting your evaluation of the world through your language. You state that these images "should" produce an urge to flinch and I'm asking what you're basing that "should" on? Put yourself in the shoes of a surgeon in the ER. "Should" s/he flinch at the sight of surgery? Do you think that a gay man "should" flinch at the sight of straight sex?
The particulars aren't important since different particulars will cause different people to flinch (for example, your set doesn't bother me that much but just the thought of slicing an achillies tendon sets me off), the important aspect is this "should" and why it seems that way to you.
And, ultimately, how you can get away from it.