kundalini definition
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@gerry456 said
"Every Thelemite is called to go through the Liber E work and then SSS and HHH."
That's just flat-out incorrect. What Thelemites are "called to" is contained exclusively in Liber Legis.
"I belive, I could be wrong, that SSS and HHH are basically no more than "pranic spinal breathing" which is an additional aspect of asana and alternate nostril pranayama."
Yes, you are wrong. And HHH is the title of the book, not one of the practices (two of which don't even mention the spine).
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"Every Thelemite is called to go through the Liber E work and then SSS and HHH."
I'm not a Thelemite. Probably because I've never met anybody besides on this forum who has ever heard of asana, tantra, pranayama, mantra, kundalini... ect.
I meant no offense either. Kundalini can also be raised naturally or accidentally. Whatever gets it unraveled.
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@Patriel Machad said
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@gerry456 said
"Every Thelemite is called to go through the Liber E work and then SSS and HHH."That's just flat-out incorrect. What Thelemites are "called to" is contained exclusively in Liber Legis.
"I belive, I could be wrong, that SSS and HHH are basically no more than "pranic spinal breathing" which is an additional aspect of asana and alternate nostril pranayama."
Yes, you are wrong. And HHH is the title of the book, not one of the practices (two of which don't even mention the spine)."
I think he's merely confounding "aspirant to the A.'.A.'." with "every Thelemite." Some Thelemites tune pianos only.
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My guess is that it wasn't taken as offence. Simply frustration that there seems to be so much widespread confusion of the requirements of AA and/or OTO (which are many and varied) with the requirement of Thelema (which is simple and straightforward: Do what thou wilt).
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@Patriel Machad said
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@gerry456 said
"Every Thelemite is called to go through the Liber E work and then SSS and HHH."That's just flat-out incorrect. What Thelemites are "called to" is contained exclusively in Liber Legis.
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..and Crowley specifically talks about tantric technique in the New Comment. Tantric technique to be fully effective (or safe) must incorporate the other limbs of yoga. I know Erwin Hassle would have us believe that Crowley just said DWTW and leave out the yoga and magick. That myopic view is for his particular cult and imo is misguided.
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@gerry456 said
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..and Crowley specifically talks about tantric technique in the New Comment. Tantric technique to be fully effective (or safe) must incorporate the other limbs of yoga. I know Erwin Hassle would have us believe that Crowley just said DWTW and leave out the yoga and magick. That myopic view is for his particular cult and imo is misguided."What insights as into your consciousness of Thelema do you have from your own position of practice in regards to these matters?
Love is the law, love under will.
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@gerry456 said
"..and Crowley specifically talks about tantric technique in the New Comment. Tantric technique to be fully effective (or safe) must incorporate the other limbs of yoga. I know Erwin Hassle would have us believe that Crowley just said DWTW and leave out the yoga and magick. That myopic view is for his particular cult and imo is misguided."
That's just method. Yes, Hessle and his sympathizers are misguided, but even yoga and magick for all their importance aren't necessarily connected to Thelema per se.
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@Patriel Machad said
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@gerry456 said
"..and Crowley specifically talks about tantric technique in the New Comment. Tantric technique to be fully effective (or safe) must incorporate the other limbs of yoga. I know Erwin Hassle would have us believe that Crowley just said DWTW and leave out the yoga and magick. That myopic view is for his particular cult and imo is misguided."That's just method. Yes, Hessle and his sympathizers are misguided, but even yoga and magick for all their importance aren't necessarily connected to Thelema per se."
You're wrong imo and we're going to have to agree to disagree on this, apart from my point, which I will now elaborate on about Hassle's cult being stuck in Hod.
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@gerry456 said
"You're wrong imo and we're going to have to agree to disagree on this"
Well, no, we don't really have to agree to disagree. You could explain how your opinion is borne out by facts or explanations thus making the observation that Thelema does not require anything beyond "Do what thou wilt" wrong.
@gerry456 said
"..and Crowley specifically talks about tantric technique in the New Comment."
Crowley talks about a lot of things in the New Comment. He also never published the New Comment. Neither of these facts say anything about Thelema, per se.
@gerry456 said
"I know Erwin Hassle would have us believe that Crowley just said DWTW and leave out the yoga and magick."
I could care less about Hessle but I will take Crowley's own words as pretty indicative of what he thought on the matter. Duty is "A note on the chief rules of practical conduct to be observed by those who accept the Law of Thelema." This, specifically outside the expectations of O.T.O. or A.'.A.'.. Please show me where he says anything about the necessity of magick or yoga:
hermetic.com/eidolons/Duty -
Dammit everybody this is my favorite topic!
"Is kundalini same thing as chi I.e. prana?"
Back to the original topic... All names for a sensation(s) not normally perceived...
Kundalini: I would say not chakra based awareness but a process one level above them awakening the Sahasrara/Anja to rewrite everything. Once you start, you can't stop this train from choo-chooin all over you.
Unlike Kundalini, I'm finished with this post.
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I wonder if this is going off topic or not. Dammit, full speed ahead!
To be a Thelemite you must simply do your Will and nothing but your Will. Not everyone's Will is to be a priest or a magician. If you do not know that, then you are enforcing a sin of restrictions.
Okay...
Back to topic... If Kundalini equaled Prana, and they are both from the same language, they wouldn't be two different words.
Nuff said.
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OK just one more thing to lighten this thread's mood:
I had a dream last night that my old cat Spooky (a extremely dark mixed calico cat) somehow came back and left me three adult cat offspring to live at my house. One was darker and always INSISTED on being on my lap at all times. I named him Buddy. Another one was female and more independent and when anybody left the room she would immediately roll over and lounge on her back. Her belly was pure white. The third cat was part grey in the front of the body and stayed erect and vigilant most of the time. Always observant of it's surroundings.
This morning in my meditations it was explained that these three cats were:
The one who lays on his stomach, the one who lays on her back, and the one who stands erect.Do you think these could refer to Apana, Prana, and Kundalini
I continue to toss and turn as well, shakes the earth from my bones.
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@Gnosomai Emauton said
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I could care less about Hessle but I will take Crowley's own words as pretty indicative of what he thought on the matter. Duty is "A note on the chief rules of practical conduct to be observed by those who accept the Law of Thelema." This, specifically outside the expectations of O.T.O. or A.'.A.'.. Please show me where he says anything about the necessity of magick or yoga:
hermetic.com/eidolons/Duty"I could go through Crowley's Duty and find no reference to magick or yoga, sure. However, I suspect that this was a document which portrayed the "public front" of Thelema, a watered down or dumbed down publication which serves as a mere hors d'oeuvre.
Let's say I'm wrong about that. In that case how is Joe/Josephine average (i.e. pre yoga/pre Tantra larval reactive animal-machine) meant to "do their Will"?
True Will, lies dormant, within the right brain's higher circuits whose characteristics are joy and ecstacy. AL is preoccupied with joy and ecstacy. Joe Average only has ecstacy when he ejaculates in or on his wife, girlfriend or sex-partner or when he jacks off and these sensations are fleeting. AL references this with "ye are against the people O my chosen", "be not animal refine thy rapture" and...
29. For I am divided for love's sake, for the chance of union. (mystic union I.e. yoga)
*30. This is the creation of the world, that the pain of division is as nothing, and the joy of dissolution all.
**31. For these fools of men and their woes care not thou at all! They feel little; what is, is balanced by weak joys; but ye are my chosen ones. **
*The joy/ecstacy circuits have to be triggered i.e. "turned on"/activated. Crowley spent his life turning these circuits on (via yogic magickal work) and writing about them. His entire career, his initiations, his journey, is just that. WoMan is born flawed and retarded and must, as Joni Mitchell said "find (their) way back to the garden". This takes work, to be more specific, the Great Work.
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@gerry456 said
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I could go through Crowley's Duty and find no reference to magick or yoga, sure. However, I suspect that this was a document which portrayed the "public front" of Thelema, a watered down or dumbed down publication which serves as a mere hors d'oeuvre."If you choose to engage with it, you'll find that Duty is quite a bit more than a dumbed down hors d'oeuvre. Regardless, "the Law is for all" means just what it says on the tin. Though there may be unwritten ordeals and partially written rituals, obeah, wanga, works of the wand and works of the sword, which are available to those of us who choose to engage them (and which, as directed, Crowley spent much of the rest of his life learning and teaching), none of these are fundamental requirements. The fundamental requirement, the Law, is for all.
@gerry456 said
"Let's say I'm wrong about that. In that case how is Joe/Josephine average (i.e. pre yoga/pre Tantra larval reactive animal-machine) meant to "do their Will"? "
"[W]ith (a) one-pointedness, (b) detachment, (c) peace." - Liber II
@gerry456 said
"True Will, lies dormant, within the right brain's higher circuits whose characteristics are joy and ecstacy. "
Is that so?
@gerry456 said
"AL is preoccupied with joy and ecstacy. "
Among other things.
@gerry456 said
"Joe Average only has ecstacy when he ejaculates in or on his wife, girlfriend or sex-partner or when he jacks off and these sensations are fleeting. "
That's quite a projection you've built up there. I wonder how true it really is.
@gerry456 said
"The joy/ecstacy circuits have to be triggered i.e. "turned on"/activated. Crowley spent his life turning these circuits on (via yogic magical work) and writing about them. His entire career, his initiations, his journey, is just that. "
I don't disagree with most of this... However, what Crowley decided to focus his life's work on and what Thelema is are not necessarily equivalent. If they were, then Thelemites would also be required to climb mountains, play chess, start communes, spy for the government, melt their minds on every substance available, and father several children, none if which are true. The philosophy, though codified by the man, is distinct from him. There is much in it that predates him and there are developments that have succeeded him. But, fundamentally, it is for each of us to figure out what our own path is and then to follow it without fail.
A good analogy might be too look at Jung and note that the practical guidelines of Jungian analysis are sound and beneficial and still useful. One does not then need to follow Jung into his years of symbolic self-analysis and Red Book mysticism in order to continue doing the work. The option certainly is available... but just because that period was a part of Jung's biography, does not make it a necessary part of a present-day analyst's work.
You are welcome to be a Crowley-ite and practice Crowly-anity if that is your will, to follow his guidelines and recreate his biography of sex magick, but please try to do it with an awareness of the choice that it is. And, for the love of Thelema, please try not to force it on others as the only "true way" for them to discover their Wills.
Else that kundalini snake might bite you on the back of the neck once you get her to rise. ;D
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@Gnosomai Emauton said
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If you choose to engage with it, you'll find that Duty is quite a bit more than a dumbed down hors d'oeuvre. Regardless, "the Law is for all" means just what it says on the tin. "Yeah, many are called but few are chosen. Ha, few are chosen. I like it when xtianity and Thelema converge.
@Gnosomai Emauton said
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"[W]ith (a) one-pointedness, (b) detachment, (c) peace." - Liber II
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@Gnosomai Emauton said
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Is that so?
"Yes, do the work and find out for thyself.
@Gnosomai Emauton said
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Among other things.
"Like what?
@Gnosomai Emauton said
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That's quite a projection you've built up there. I wonder how true it really is.
"Ok so maybe "the people" with their "weak joys" get to feel high in other ways. Apart from fleeting drug euphorias would you care to tell us how, when and where "the people" rise above their "weak joys"?
@Gnosomai Emauton said
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I don't disagree with most of this... However, what Crowley decided to focus his life's work on and what Thelema is are not necessarily equivalent. If they were, then Thelemites would also be required to climb mountains, play chess, start communes, spy for the government, melt their minds on every substance available, and father several children, none if which are true. "
Lol you think too much. That's fallacious. Those mundane pass times of Crowley, the larval man, are mere external activities. Christ and Buddha apparently had no hobbies, probably because they never existed and are mythological uber pure spiritual beings who just float on clouds and preach. Crowley was a man like me, ergo we both have mundane hobbies e.g. I like to slam my punch bag now and again and make videos. Now I have done such activities as an ignorant Joe Average larval robot and as a living Tantric God who walks the earth but the activities remain the same, wheeras ...I ... don't.
@Gnosomai Emauton said
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A good analogy might be too look at Jung and note that the practical guidelines of Jungian analysis are sound and beneficial and still useful. One does not then need to follow Jung into his years of symbolic self-analysis and Red Book mysticism in order to continue doing the work. The option certainly is available... but just because that period was a part of Jung's biography, does not make it a necessary part of a present-day analyst's work.
"Again, this is just........ wayward.
@Gnosomai Emauton said
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You are welcome to be a Crowley-ite and practice Crowly-anity if that is your will, to follow his guidelines and recreate his biography of sex magick, but please try to do it with an awareness of the choice that it is. And, for the love of Thelema, please try not to force it on others as the only "true way" for them to discover their Wills.Else that kundalini snake might bite you on the back of the neck once you get her to rise. ;D"
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"I appreciate your advice. On the contrary, I have com-passion for those who lack Tantric agni. It's difficult not to come across as a megalomaniac spiritual cult-guru when talking about trans larval realities to yokels. You say that you had extensive Tantric holdback experience so I'm sure you can appreciate that.
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@gerry456 said
"Yeah, many are called but few are chosen. Ha, few are chosen. I like it when xtianity and Thelema converge."
There's the opposite perspective:
@Liber X, v. 9 said
"This Knowledge is not for all men; few indeed are called, but of these few many are chosen."
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"Each star is unique, and each orbit apart; indeed, that is the cornerstone of my teaching, to have no standard goals or standard ways, no othordoxies and no codes.
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Magick is the art of causing change in existing phenomena. This definition includes raising the dead, bewitching cattle, making rain, acquiring goods, fascinating judges, and all the rest of the programme. Good: but it also includes every act soever? Yes; I meant it to do so. It is not possible to utter word or do deed without producing the exact effect proper and necessary thereto. Thus Magick is the Art of Life itself."
- Aleister Crowley.
Allow me to highlight: "to have no standard goals or standard ways"