Hearing voices
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@Ab-ul-Az said
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As I thought, this is a common case.
I do try to ignore them during meditation, but I think there's an explanation and even benefit from that."Do what thou wilt shall be the whole of the Law. If you want to succeed in meditation then you must ignore everything but that which you are meditating on. You can do what you want. Your mind becomes involved in "thinking" when it turns and revolves and judges what is going on. Thought is the antithesis of meditation.
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@seekinghga said
"Do what thou wilt shall be the whole of the Law. If you want to succeed in meditation then you must ignore everything but that which you are meditating on. You can do what you want. Your mind becomes involved in "thinking" when it turns and revolves and judges what is going on. Thought is the antithesis of meditation."
Absolutely, otherwise no samadhi.
But I think this is part of what distinguishes the Western Tradition from others, they're strictly magians and warriors if you look at history, and we have to follow where this evolution is heading, which apparently uses the mind and psyche as its vehicle. I could babble on all day about this but I rather not divert much from the main subject.
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@Ab-ul-Az said
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But I think"Good for you, but that isn't meditation.
"this is part of what distinguishes the Western Tradition from others, they're strictly magians and warriors if you look at history, and we have to follow where this evolution is heading, which apparently uses the mind and psyche as its vehicle. I could babble on all day about this subject but I rather not divert much from the main subject."
I'm one who doesn't think about Western or Eastern. It's all psychology. Invocation is psychological entrainment. Evocation is psychological projection. I might be wrong. I probably am. Hopefully so, it's all thought or concepts. Meditation is the recruitment of the mind to focus unto a single thing unto samadhi. Stick with it.
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@seekinghga said
"Good for you, but that isn't meditation."
The second part of my comment is definitely not about meditation in the formal way as it is learned through Hindu and Buddhist texts and traditions. So I don't have anything against what you are saying.
What I said concerns the phenomena itself whenever it happens, as it does sometimes even in the conscious state, it's actually one of the things that helped me in understanding and controlling the mind, while the Eastern methods are strictly made for ritual and devotional use for hermits, which is contrary to the Western where we are invested in the physical, mental and having things accomplished and manifested, which I find complimentary to the message of Thelema too.
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@Ab-ul-Az said
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The second part of my comment is definitely not about meditation in the formal way as it is learned through Hindu and Buddhist texts and traditions. So I don't have anything against what you are saying."Good. Because I didn't say anthing anti-you, save for against your Ego.
"What I said concerns the phenomena itself whenever it happens, as it does sometimes even in the conscious state, it's actually one of the things that helped me in understanding and controlling the mind, while the Eastern methods are strictly made for ritual and devotional use for hermits, which is contrary to the Western where we are invested in the physical, mental and having things accomplished and manifested, which I find complimentary to the message of Thelema too."
Ignore it. I can't help you beyond that. If you want someone to tell you that what you are experiencing is a holy boon, a ringing telephone, a text message, I can't tell you that. You need to increase your concentration, it needs to be all day. If you want to make it.
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@seekinghga said
"Ignore it. I can't help you beyond that. If you want someone to tell you that what you are experiencing is a holy boon, a ringing telephone, a text message, I can't tell you that. You need to increase your concentration, it needs to be all day. If you want to make it."
As I said, I do ignore them when I'm doing my raja yoga session.
In the waking state, I mentally connect to the subconscious of those I know and receive spontaneous messages from them, and I'm aware most of them do it unintentionally as repressed ideas or emotions, and those I'm connected deeply with will manifest the thoughts and emotions I send to them, so that's one thing that made me more cautious in my thoughts and energy.
I don't believe anything (even chaos) to be arbitrary or futile.
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@Ab-ul-Az said
"In the waking state, I mentally connect to the subconscious of those I know and receive spontaneous messages from them, and I'm aware most of them do it unintentionally as repressed ideas or emotions, and those I'm connected deeply with will manifest the thoughts and emotions I send to them, so that's one thing that made me more cautious in my thoughts and energy."
I share this theory, but i think it quite dangerous. It’s impossible (or very close to impossible) to distinguish from psychological projection. Or, if you’ve got a technique for making such a distinction, I’d love to hear it.
The best analogy I have is that sometimes it’s my CD player (psychological projection), and somethimes it’s the radio (telepathic information). But I can’t tell just by listening to the music.
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@Hermitas said
"I share this theory, but i think it quite dangerous. It’s impossible (or very close to impossible) to distinguish from psychological projection. Or, if you’ve got a technique for making such a distinction, I’d love to hear it.
The best analogy I have is that sometimes it’s my CD player (psychological projection), and somethimes it’s the radio (telepathic information). But I can’t tell just by listening to the music."
Both the energy and the first person that pops in your mind the moment the message is received is one indicator. I noticed sometimes when I intentionally think of a certain person I will tap into their mind and these random messages will start flooding by themselves.
You will know that it's coming from you when you can trace the root of the thought (at least with two previous thoughts related) and their connection to your current physical state, imagine your own thoughts like an ever expanding and connected branches of a tree, while those of an external source will be sudden, random and most importantly not reached for, along the things I mentioned first.
Also most importantly, knowing thy Self and True Will.
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Regarding your technique for discernment: Respectfully, I don't think it takes seriously enough the idea that our own unconscious minds can and do produce "information" of an unbidden and unexpected nature. It does so frequently in dreams. In other words, it could still be the words of a representation of an individual created by your unconscious mind (as in a dream), with no connection to the actual individual's thoughts.
Objective (outside) confirmation is necessary to test the percentage of correct "reads" enabled by the discernment technique you describe.
Honestly, I believe I've experienced both, the real and the imagined, yet I can't tell just from the "hearing," and I don't know what to tell you except not to bet your reputation on anything you hear.
Note: I went through a Saturn transit conjunct my natal Neptune once. It broke all the rules. It was as if my own mind was trying purposely to deceive me. I've become a lot more skeptical about it since then.
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@Hermitas said
"Regarding your technique for discernment: Respectfully, I don't think it takes seriously enough the idea that our own unconscious minds can and do produce "information" of an unbidden and unexpected nature. It does so frequently in dreams. In other words, it could still be the words of a representation of an individual created by your unconscious mind (as in a dream), with no connection to the actual individual's thoughts.
Objective (outside) confirmation is necessary to test the percentage of correct "reads" enabled by the discernment technique you describe.
Honestly, I believe I've experienced both, the real and the imagined, yet I can't tell just from the "hearing," and I don't know what to tell you except not to bet your reputation on anything you hear.
Note: I went through a Saturn transit conjunct my natal Neptune once. It broke all the rules. It was as if my own mind was trying purposely to deceive me. I've become a lot more skeptical about it since then."
Yes it's quite tricky and definitely needs objective confirmation along the way, that's why most importantly is knowing one's True Will, the mind and even the body will never rest and will have countless changing states on the path of initiation, letting it subject to the True Will is the end goal, be it a suggested projection or synchronistic telepathy; they should both result in Love.
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@Ab-ul-Az said
"Yes it's quite tricky and definitely needs objective confirmation along the way, that's why most importantly is knowing one's True Will, the mind and even the body will never rest and will have countless changing states on the path of initiation, letting it subject to the True Will is the end goal"
OK
"be it a suggested projection or synchronistic telepathy; they should both result in Love."
How? All things result in love. Love, in the Thelemic sense, is the outcome of dissolving barriers. It is not a Silent Witness but an Ardent and Aloof Participant, such is Hadit. I didn't ask "how?" in order to challenge what you're saying. I'm genuinely asking you to delineate its methodology.
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Love Love love
all things come from Love and are the result of love and there is nothing but Love, and everything else is a Lie.I sometimes have so much going on, in what would seem to be a psychic level, so many bits of information and words and feelings that arise and try to influence me. and gosh they sure do whirl me around and shake me up.
I think though for me, that when I hear the voices, or see the birds in the tree as sign, or open the book to the perfect passage My true will my heart, my soul, my little Hadit in the world takes these lieing sensory expierences and weighs them against what my heart knows is the truth. but its not weighing them, I think so much as the scales are more akin to music scales and I am weighing them against what is my own natural rythem, and if it does not mess haromically with that it is rejected.
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@Angel of Death said
"Love Love love
I sometimes have so much going on, in what would seem to be a psychic level, so many bits of information and words and feelings that arise and try to influence me. and gosh they sure do whirl me around and shake me up.""Farther and farther we float; yet we are still. It is the chain of systems that is falling away from us. First falls the silly world; the world of the old grey land. Falls it unthinkably far, with its sorrowful bearded face presiding over it; it fades to silence and woe. We to silence and bliss, and the face is the laughing face of Eros."
"We attained to be starry grains of gold dust in the sands of a slow river. Yea, and that river was the river of space and time also. We parted thence; ever to the smaller, ever to the greater, until now, O sweet God, we are ourselves, the same."
"There is a solemnity of the silence. There is no more voice at all. So shall it be unto the end. We who were dust shall never fall away into the dust. So shall it be."
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@Angel of Death said
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what perfect and beautiful words, thank you for sharing."
Namaste.
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@Angel of Death said
"thanks
I see you too
Namaste Brother"
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@seekinghga said
"How? All things result in love. Love, in the Thelemic sense, is the outcome of dissolving barriers. It is not a Silent Witness but an Ardent and Aloof Participant, such is Hadit. I didn't ask "how?" in order to challenge what you're saying. I'm genuinely asking you to delineate its methodology."
You are correct in your scientific explanation of Love.
I would say the first thing is knowing thy self, knowing your own history and nature both in this life and another ones if possible, that way in my opinion it won't matter where it is coming from if it's assisting your True Will, other than that; it is simply good food for social and psychological analysis and examination.I stated earlier that an external source will manifest usually through the 'inner ear', the frontal lobe area, where obviously the ajna chakra is, this is its job. It is sudden and not reached for, and mostly (superficially) incoherent. Crowley in one of his letters stated that the body of light is a good tool for helping the student at critical times in throwing either warnings or hints, and this goes well with my experience.
It's probably the elemental bodies both in their lights and shadows communicating if not intermingling at that plane and working like antennas for each other, resulting in such telepathic experiences. These elemental 'bodies of light' are like vehicles with no solid sense of 'I' or mind, and if they're not taken with care they will be an astral dumping ground.