erased
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Who or what is fighting against the independence of women? I don't understand. Everything I see seems to be moving toward the understanding that every man and every woman is a star. Who is trying to hold the women back?
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93,
Who is fighting against women? I'd start with fundamentalist Christianity, Islamic extremists, the Bush administration...
While I agree the general trend in the modern era is towards greater recognition of the rights of women, as well as gays and lesbians, that doesn't mean it's going to be a smooth ride. Backlashes are inevitable, and historically speaking poor economies tend to foment conservative and backwards-thinking sentiment, as well as violence.
We'll see how this thing pans out.
love=law
- C
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A friend of mine brought my attention to this subject awhile back. He believes that Abraham got the Hebrew alphabet from a mystery school in Egypt while his wife was a part of the Pharaoh's concubine. Supposedly Abraham started his own religion by copying the practices of both Egypt and Zoroastrianism. The major thing he left out was the matriarchal part. And from Judaism came Christianity and Islam...
Yes the world does seem very unbalanced in regards to the role of women.
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93,
"A friend of mine brought my attention to this subject awhile back. He believes that Abraham got the Hebrew alphabet from a mystery school in Egypt while his wife was a part of the Pharaoh's concubine. Supposedly Abraham started his own religion by copying the practices of both Egypt and Zoroastrianism. The major thing he left out was the matriarchal part. And from Judaism came Christianity and Islam... "
That's a bit of a stretch. There are definitely some crossovers from Ancient Egyptian into Hebrew, but the linguistic trail doesn't really lead that way. Also, written Ancient Egyptian used hundreds of pictograms and ideograms as well as phonetic signs. Why, if there was a far simpler and completely distinct system in use, doesn't it show up anywhere in the very extensive surviving records?
As for Zoroastrianism, we can trace it back to around 1,000 BC, and - very tentatively - a few centuries before that. Abraham, if he actually existed, would have lived several centuries prior to this time, so his being influenced by it is improbable.
Your friend's imagination is a bit too free-ranging.
Ancient Egypt was more egalitarian in its attitude to women than some other ancient cultures. But if we go that far back, the total context is so different to anything we could accept or recognize that drawing parallels with our situation today isn't too useful. In particular, the idea of distinct, spiritually autonomous individuality is a concept that really only emerged in the period we refer to as the Aeon of Osiris. Matriarchy as such is not the same thing as freedom of spiritual self-expression for women. It just means a differently defined societal role. The core idea of exploring one's own truth for oneself, whether male or female, is still not well established around the planet.
93 93/93,
EM
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@ThatNarrowFellow said
"93,
Who is fighting against women? I'd start with fundamentalist Christianity, Islamic extremists, the Bush administration..."As far as Islam is concerned we are dealing with a totally different culture. It is hard to judge our progress with women by looking at a different culture and pointing to their lack of progress (in our opinion).
How exactly are Bush and fundamentalist Christians fighting against women? -
93,
In response to your question, Frater P, I would say that the Bush administration is in the pocket of the fundamentalist Christians, so, aside from his stance against abortion, he (the President) is an actively supporting member of a religious group that not only denies women equal standing in its own congregations (which I have no problem with provided people are choosing to be there), but also by denying and attempting to undermine the basic tenets of a pluralistic society characterized by freedom of choice. Fundamentalists do this by protesting at gay funerals, bombing the houses of abortion doctors, and saying ridiculous and inflammatory things, such as when Falwell referred to the NOW as "The National Order of Witches" (to name a few).
Furthermore I suspect it is obvious to most people that homophobia and misogyny are closely-related phenomenon - both rooted in an attempt to maintain a patriarchal social order, so I'd throw in comments made by Falwell, Robertson, and others that tragedies such as Katrina, 9/11, and even the flooding in the Midwest are the judgment of God upon our big, gay nation.
As for radical Islam, I cannot agree with you that because the culture is different, it somehow acquires the right to execute women who are raped, prevent them from driving cars, or even from converting to a different religion. If these women chose this life it would be one thing, but they are forced into it, and the Law of Thelema, in my view, is just as applicable in the Middle East as it is here.
Love=Law
- C
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I never read anything by Crowley that supported abortions. As a matter of fact everything I recall him writing was anti-abortion.
As far as Bush, Falwell and people like them -- I can't stand them. The women in the fundamentalist churches chose to be there. I support their freedom of religion. They can also leave whenever they want to.
The Law of Thelema is applicable everywhere. To expect our Western ideals to be accepted everywhere when most of the world is run by dictators and tyrants might be naive. I support efforts to spread the Law of Liberty, but instant international change is more than I expect right now. I do not think it is fair to make the claim that since in some places in the world (run by warlords and glorified gangsters) women do not have the same rights as men that men are at war with women in the Western world. The restrictions placed on men in fundamentalist churches are also massive. The men make the choice to stay in those churches -- or leave. The nature of those fundamentalist churches seems to be restriction -- for men and women. -
@Frater Pantha said
"I never read anything by Crowley that supported abortions. As a matter of fact everything I recall him writing was anti-abortion."
Yes, he was anti-abortion. At least in part, though, we should look at this through the social lens of the time: Illegal abortion was a travesty inflicted upon women as part of social disgrace for out of wedlock pregnancies. He was really against that! (That wasn't his only objection, but it was one big one.)
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I think he called it a crime against nature.
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@Edward Mason said
"93,
Also, written Ancient Egyptian used hundreds of pictograms and ideograms as well as phonetic signs. Why, if there was a far simpler and completely distinct system in use, doesn't it show up anywhere in the very extensive surviving records? "
I'm not sure exactly how he came to the conclusion of Abram getting the 22 letters from a mystery school, if I remember correctly he said he something about cross-referencing the 'meeting tent' with the 'rainbow serpent' and a 3rd source (can't remember) along with the Tarot. He said the Hebrew alphabet correlates to the 22 aspects of the Rainbow Serpent.
"As for Zoroastrianism, we can trace it back to around 1,000 BC, and - very tentatively - a few centuries before that. "
To my knowledge the Avesta was written aprox 1500 BC (300 years prior to the Torah).
"Abraham, if he actually existed, would have lived several centuries prior to this time, so his being influenced by it is improbable."
I agree as Abraham is estimated around 2000-1900 BC. Moses 1500-1350. However the Torah/Pentateuch wasn't written until 1200 BC.
I agree Abraham didn't write the Torah but both him and Moses would have been in Egypt prior to it being written. IMO Abraham would have definitely had access to the mystery schools. He arrived in Egypt with many slaves, cattle, gold, etc.. and left with even more wealth. His wife was a concubine to the Pharaoh. Not saying this is what happened, it was just the story that had originally make me start thinking about how women were portrayed in the Torah. I do think it is a possibility.
IMO both Ancient Egypt and Zoroastrianism had a much better attitude towards women than Judaism (which is was main point). And look what came out of Judaism (Christianity and Islam)...