Questions on meditation
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I became aware early on in my search (im still in early stages) that the role of the initial grades of initiation (I believe this may be GD but could also be thelemic, im sure some one will know) are working with the elemental aspects within the initiate. So I thought that would be a good place to start. I chose an asana (dragon) based on a random "vision" i had during sex of a very "Chinese" black colored dragon ( i thought maybe I AM THE DRAGON... haha). Learned the LBRH and decided I would do that ritual and then assume the asana and meditate for an undecided amount of time.
Initially I felt some what awkward performing the ritual. Knowing that I was making mistakes really inhibited me from "being in the moment" as it were. I decided to leave off the ritual until I had the will to do it correctly.( just a matter of applying ones self)
Ok questions, #1. Should I be focused on transmuting these aspects of my "atman"(?) or should I focus more on samadhi? which I was under the impression that samadhi was the "union of the object and the observer".
#2. I was "meditating" and focusing on an object and at one point it felt as if I had more than one point of view and i simultaneously saw the object and saw myself from the point of view of the object. Is this something i should take as encouragement or write off? LAter on I was still focusing on annihilating the impression of duality. During a later meditation I was inspired to realize that my physical body was the object and "I" (not the fingers on the keys) was the observer. Comments?
#3. I recently decided to write a little prose,(posted at bottom) I write only occasionally. I wrote a short piece over a couple days and felt quite good about it. It was nothing particularly enthralling but it clicked in my mind. The poem became a sort of mantra that I repeat whenever I notice my mind slipping into idle thought.
Then one day I decided to meditate on the planetary aspect of the hour of day in which i would be meditating. The hour was 10:00 am on Fri. and i found the (correct?) attribution to Venus. So I constructed a sigil of what I found to be the Symbols for Anael and of Venus. During this specific mediation I was inspired to look at the womb mentioned in the poem as death. But not necessarily physical death, but rather the "dying" of something in order in order for it to be reborn. And in a subsequent meditation i envisioned myself by a stream with some one, it felt as if anael were with me and communicating to me non verbally that the water (the water of earth, venus?) exist to wash away the impurities of my inner self. Not unlike the whole bathed in the blood of Jesus deal. ( wheres the question you might say)
Before writing the prose I had been inspired to start making the Water sign of Auramoth when my hands were idle, later I learned that you become the glyph when making this symbol.
My question is should I entertain the idea that through my mediocre daily observances I was actually allowed this experience? Or should I remain skeptical and assume that because I want to see the connections i may be subconsciously drawing them were none exist?Eternity rests upon the lips of every moment
I put a finger to mine own
Silence!
unlock the door so I may enter
the palace whose name is written in no tomeAlong the darkened path I shall cease to wonder
for by the light of the eternal lantern I have seen the way
Silence!
her secret name, the keeper of the ember
the laccus which harbors the living flameEternity rests upon the lips of every moment
I put a finger to mine own
Silence!
I shall tear the door asunder
for of these mysteries are made a womb -
"Ok questions, #1. Should I be focused on transmuting these aspects of my "atman"(?) or should I focus more on samadhi? "
Since you say that you're "still in early stages", I would suggest that you should focus on sitting perfectly still for on hour. Then there are other practices, like controlling the breath, and focusing the attention on a single thought, that come long before things like samadhi.
"My question is should I entertain the idea that through my mediocre daily observances I was actually allowed this experience? Or should I remain skeptical and assume that because I want to see the connections i may be subconsciously drawing them were none exist?"
I would suggest writing them down and keep going. Only the perspective of time is going to help you understand precisely how important the experience has been to you
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Keeping track of them over time is definately revealing. I wouldnt have thought much of any of those things alone but together over time they add to.. well the make up something worth adding to.
OK so take up asana and try to stay physically still. What should I occupy my mind with? Resisting the urge to scratch, ,move etc.?
This is really my first time sharing with anyone. I have had no one to show me tests they did early on etc.. My area does have some GD members near by but I have been reluctant to make personal contact. Should I take the opportunity presenting itself, because I do feel that I would benefit some structure to my study. now I know only I can decide if it is right for me, but it is the structure I want not necessarily that order. another question for another area of the forum. Ill take it there. Thanks Avshalom, I ahve read quite a bit but am really having a hard time getting started with some practical work.
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@IQOB BITH said
"What should I occupy my mind with? Resisting the urge to scratch, ,move etc.? "
You could just passively observe your breath, observe your body, observe sensations, etc. Not doing something is pretty tricky...
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"Should I even bother with acknowledging the specific hour of the day? Or doing the lbrp for that matter?"
Sure, if you're so inclined. Just keep a journal and keep going.
The lbrp is smart for deep meditation where you really "delve" into an idea/symbol etc, and start to border on astral travel.
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Roger that.
So I assume I should spend some time training the mind before trying any astral travel? I am very interested in the astral plane. I keep getting ahead of myself, thats why I started tarring the AA curriculum, to give some order. But honestly it has discouraged me. I have to keep reminding myself that I need to take my time. But being confused as to where to start has made me wary of spending much time doing anything specific. I am going to start the hour long exercise today and try to do it every day for a week. Thanks again, a little encouragement has helped a lot.
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Do you have Vivekananda's Raja Yoga (from the student reading list)? It's a good place to start...
For a place to begin as a fore-runner to astral travel, have you seen Liber Theta? It's a meditation program on the tarot cards:
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@IQOB BITH said
"Learned the LBRH and decided I would do that ritual and then assume the asana and meditate for an undecided amount of time. "
I agree with your earlier summation, and going along with that say you should switch to doing the LBRP.
LBRP is elemental in nature while the LBRH is planetary.
I do not feel the end goal is to attain to these states.
Throughout your practices you shall touch upon all the various states that are spoken of.
The mark of an Adept is to be able to invoke these states at Will...That is, you should be seeking the self knowledge required to purify your intent so that you may bring about and maintain certain states of being.
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I'm not quite sure how I typed lbrh, cause I have only done the lbrp, that's some typo considering the keys are rows apart. Made it only. 30 Mins. Today. My feet were totally numb after that period. I just observed the thoughts that pop up. I have a habit of narrating what I am experiencing to my self as I am experiencing it. At one point (during this exercise) I tried to kill that thought because I felt like it had some sort of negative effect. I am very appreciative, so thanks are in order. I am starting Raja Yoga so ill let youknow where that takes me.
Gotta learn to walk before we can run.
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@IQOB BITH said
"I'm not quite sure how I typed lbrh, cause I have only done the lbrp, that's some typo considering the keys are rows apart. "
I thought so based on your later replies, but felt it was important enough a point to bring up.
@IQOB BITH said
"Made it only. 30 Mins. Today. My feet were totally numb after that period. I just observed the thoughts that pop up. "
Be careful not to push your self too hard.
A consistent practice will net better results.@IQOB BITH said
"I have a habit of narrating what I am experiencing to my self as I am experiencing it. At one point (during this exercise) I tried to kill that thought because I felt like it had some sort of negative effect."
I would advice against "killing" the voice.
It is better to stop resisting it, let it ramble on but pay it no heed.
With time and practice it shall become easy to ignore (though it may get louder before it gets softer).
This 'voice' can be useful for vision and scrying Work that you may do later on. -
Yeah, I use a meditation bench with dragon, because I'm a big guy and my feet go seriously numb otherwise. Listen to your body.
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*15. Now it is necessary, in order to hold a position, to pay attention to it. That is to say: you are going to become conscious of your body in ways of which you are not conscious if you are engaged in some absorbing mental pursuit, or even in some purely physical activity, such as running. It sounds paradoxical at first sight, but violent exercise, so far from concentrating attention on the body, takes it away. That is because exercise has its own rhythm; and, as I said, rhythm is half-way up the ridge to Silence.
Very good, then; in the comparative stillness of the body, the student becomes aware of minute sounds which did not disturb him in his ordinary life. At least, not when his mind was occupied with matters of interest. You will begin to fidget, to itch, to cough. Possibly your breathing will begin to play tricks upon you. All these symptoms must be repressed. The process of repressing them is extremely difficult; and, like all other forms of repression, it leads to a terrific exaggeration of the phenomena which it is intended to repress.
*-- Eight Lectures on Yoga -- A.C.
Read the whole thing if you haven't already!
Take care not to bite off more than you can chew. A daily practice of 5 minutes is better than a monthly practice for an hour. Not everybody is a born ascetic. The aim is creating a habit. Running is a mile is better 5 times a week than a monthly marathon.
Also, I would monitor the body breaks -- count how many times you move in a given time at first. Always write them down in your book to chart progress. Then once that gets managable, move to how many times your attention "moves" from your concentration on posture stillness. It is helpful to use the break count method:
*•Firstly, physical sensations; these should have been overcome by Asana.
•Secondly, breaks that seem to be indicated by events immediately preceding the meditation: their activity becomes tremendous. Only by this practice does one understand how much is really observed by the senses without the mind becoming conscious of it.
•Thirdly, there is a class of break partaking of the nature of reverie or 'day-dreaming.' These are very insidious-one may go on for a long time without realising that one has wandered at all.
•Fourthly, we get a very high class of break, which is a sort of abberation of the control itself. You think, 'How well I am doing it!' or perhaps that it would be rather a good idea if you were on a desert island, or if you were in a sound-proof house, or if you were sitting by a waterfall. But these are only trifling variations from the vigilance itself.
•A fifth class of break seems to have no discoverable source in the mind-such might even take the form of actual hallucination, usually auditory. Of course, such hallucinations are infrequent, and are recognised for what they are. Otherwise the student had better see a doctor. The usual kind consists of odd sentences, or fragments of sentences, which are quite distinctly heard in a recognisable human voice, not the student's own voice, or that of anyone he knows. A similar phenomenon is observed by wireless operators, who call such messages 'atmospherics.'
•There is a further kind of break, which is the desired result itself. *-- Ibid.
Keep in mind, this is an exercise in CONCENTRATION. Just like lifting weights. Thinking about the analysis about the theories about the methods won't help your biceps get as big as mine. Which are absolutely huge btw.
But it's a fair warning! Chances are you'll obsess about what everybody else says about it before you do it yourself (lord knows I did). Putting in the work is the first step on the road to success!
Best of luck to you on your Path!
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So I have noticed that there is a difference between what I would term my "inner narration" and the "voice of my mind" for lack of better termenology. In short, the narration is always in context with what I am experiencing (which is the mind's voice). Now i know this because I listen to it (the mind voice) and the things it says are totally random. These thoughts I know are not arising from my subconcious (but could it be the universal-concious?) because they have no bearing on my situation, or even broader my entire life. For example (not an actual instance) while meditating i have the concious line of thought ( I feel, I hear, I smell.. etc.) interupted by thoughts such as " bob just got back from the pharmacy". I dont know a BOB, and i was not at the pharmacy nor do I need to go. Anyone else experience any thing like this? Could it be my mind taking the myriad of sensory input I have sucked up and mixing it all together and spitting back out something seeminlgy unrecognisible? Or could it be that I am picking up the thoughts of people living their lives unaware that they are shooting these little thoughts out as they take bob to the pharmacy? And in the case of the latter is there any ehtical responsibility to not hear these thoughts that are not mine?
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" usual kind consists of odd sentences, or fragments of sentences, which are quite distinctly heard in a recognisable human voice"
I do not imagine that I should be having this "break" so i would say the things I am "hearing" are not actually hallucinations. could be (and have been) wrong
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@IQOB BITH said
"Anyone else experience any thing like this? Could it be my mind taking the myriad of sensory input I have sucked up and mixing it all together and spitting back out something seeminlgy unrecognisible? Or could it be that I am picking up the thoughts of people living their lives unaware that they are shooting these little thoughts out as they take bob to the pharmacy? And in the case of the latter is there any ehtical responsibility to not hear these thoughts that are not mine?"
Yes. It is quite natural.
Aim at silencing audible thought forms. Do not try to attribute any actual objectivity to what you are experiencing -- is it happening in your mind? Be happy that you're paying more attention to it.
And what difference does it make to trade one busy thought for another with all these theories? The point is to still the body to non-movement, then the mind to non-movement. Everything else is a "break". Also, again the POINT IS EXERCISE OF CONCENTRATION, NOT GETTING SOME TELEPATHIC SUPERPOWER, as flattering as that idea may be. All else is a distraction from your practice.
Give yourself AT LEAST six months of daily practice and recording of phenomena before trying to form theories. By then, the theories shouldn't matter so much -- unless you want to be long-winded on forums. Theories are what people accomplish in lieu of results.
DO the work! It will pay off in ways that you can't even dream of yet...
Also, where's the fire? Why rush? The Joy is in the Going. Be encouraged...everybody that has done Asana proper has experienced these phenomena. That's why it is mentioned in the list of "breaks".
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I am looking for the metaphysical sign post but I cant "see the trees for the wood" as it were. I definately agree that the theorizing is doing little but distracting from the real work. I felt I needed to build a broad base before diving in, but I got to the point were I wanted to start practicing and found myself reluctant. I would compare it to rock climbing, when a person doesn't ubnderstand the belay device and how to tie proper knots they are reluctant. Lol I taught myself to belay and tie all the knots I know, but it wasn't until I understood how they operated that I felt comfortable putting it into action. At some point I theorized ( oh boy here we go again) that the rituals and God names etc. where merely conventions by which we access areas of our subconscious mind. So I figured hell be damned and started in on some practice.
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