Thelemic Pantheon
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Sasha, 93,
Hmm. Well, speaking as someone is not exactly 8=3.....
The crossing of the Abyss, and the attainment or realisation of Binah, is the final initiation that we know about. So, I'd say Binah and Babalon are particularly significant because of that fact alone.
Babalon is not just the Mother - she is THE Mother. In our culture, the mother archetype has generally come to represent both nurturing and smothering. Babalon retains not just her means of fecundity and her nurturing side, but her attractiveness, her sexuality. These are pretty crude terms to use on a supernal level, but I think they're apt.
Binah is so often seen as being about Ama, the dark sterile mother. Aima, the mother with a fertilising Yod in the middle, is downplayed. Babalon is still Mom, but she also knows how to party.
If (if!) we can relate that to a macrocosmic level, then the implications for the Aeon are major. Think of the Virgin Mary saying, "Thanks for all the prayers and supplications, folks - but I think it's time to boogie."
I see this as the bringing of much more Light into the scheme of things. Mom just gave us permission to find joy.
93 93/93,
Edward
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@sasha said
"I have heard many people, including experienced Thelemites (which causes me to hesitate with my interpretation), criticize the Babalon image, seeing the whore aspect as reinforcing problematic conceptions of femininity. However, it seems to me that Babalon, a supposed "whore", discriminates intensely and requires a committed relationship. She, by no means, opens herself to receive anyone, as folk, including Crowley, often phrase it. You must first abandon yourself entirely, ego, desires, whatever, as you cross the abyss to reach her. So she only accepts those willing to give up everything for her. That seems pretty committed to me."
It may take a great deal of effort to find and enter her boudoir, but once you're there Babalon receives all comers, without discrimination.
Anyway, what's wrong with whores?
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93,
Since I still flinch a bit at the word 'Whore', I see the problem here, even while I see the use of the term in Thelema as a deliberate jolt to our prejudices. We don't have a positive term in English for a woman who is sexually active. Or maybe, we - most men, anyway - reduce such a woman to her genitals and erogenous zones, and mentally eliminate the person around them. Our society's neuroses around sex are far from resolved.
Christians have no problem with the basic idea of a Jesus-God forgiving serial murderers, nor with the idea of such people being blessed by a priest or minister. David Berkowitz, the Son of Sam killer, is an example of a forgive-ee here. But a woman, even a Divine Archetype, who embraces a range of partners....
I don't see an easy answer to this, but I don't think Thelema is into easy answers. Anything in the tradition, as far as I can see, requires meditation, as a means to make us consider the deeper significances. Getting the Aeon into gear means getting to the root of false concepts, and learning to see the ideas and imagery from more than one level.
93 93/93,
Edward
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@Edward Mason said
"We don't have a positive term in English for a woman who is sexually active."
My personal favorite is "wanton" - we even adopted that in T.'.O.'.T.'. as part of our five root feminine archetypal ideas.
But I'm working on a list for you
I'm even consulting every leading thesaurographer. It should be a lovely list. 
EDIT: Actually, I now have a tie for favorite. The new favorite is "woman of easy virtue." I love this phrase because - despite the actual meaning most have when it's used - the user probably has no idea what they are saying! "Virtue," at root, means "power" (vir- means "the manly traits" LOL). This phrase discloses so much about the underlying mind-set - we can't have "women of easy power" getting off easily, now can we! <roflmao>
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JAE 93,
Picky, picky me - but I still find 'wanton' a pejorative term. We don't use it much except in contexts such as "wanton disregard for safety".
I excitedly await the outcome of your emoticon-laden thesaurological enquiries. 'Heteira' comes close but it's hardly a household word, even in Thelemic households.
93 93/93,
EM
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Emotionally hyper-charged thesaurological product - terms commonly used in English (excluding out-and-out vulgar pejoratives) for a sexually liberal and diversified woman. Get ready to have your buttons pushed! But I think it's very much worth our examining these and our reactions to them.
B-girl, bawd, bimbo, blower, broad
call girl, camp follower, cat, chick, chippie, concubine, courtesan
dame, debauchee, Donna Juana
easy lay
fallen woman, fancy lady, fancy woman, floozy
harlot, hooker, hostess, hussy, hustler
Jezebel
lady in red, lady of pleasure, lady of the evening, lady of the night
libertine, loose woman
model, moll
nymph, nymphet, nymphomaniac
painted woman, party girl, pickup, pink pants, pro, profligate, prostitute
scarlet woman, slattern, slut, streetwalker, strumpet, swinger
tart, tomato, tootsie, tramp, trollop
wanton, wench, white slave, whore, woman of easy virtue, woman of the streets, woman of the town, working girl -
A few notes on history, usage, and meaning of specific terms. PS - This is my 418th post.
B-girl: Short for "bar girl." A woman employed by a bar to encourage customers to spend money freely. The "Buy me a drink, big guy?" sort of sales associate. (Used pejoratively because she exercises sexual power of the poor plastered prick at his lowest moments.)
bawd: I thought this just meant she sings loud. Actually, it's the technical term for what we usually politely call a madame - a woman who runs a brothel, or who works in one.
bimbo: Know any good blond jokes? They're probably all about bimbos. The word is simply Italian for "baby," so the word-power here is, "someone too air-headed and naive to know what the guy is getting away with." But something in mass mind pushes back against that, reasserting feminine power, because this originally air-headed term has evolved to include "a woman really interested in sex" into its meaning. Her power is sneaking back in...
blower: Well, I don't think this is about noisy leaf removal machines...
broad: I'm pretty sure the use of this as a mild (= "came to be acceptable") male put down for a woman comes from the obsolete use of the word to mean "outspoken."
concubine: One of the more respected of these terms, probably because it has legal standing in some places and times. Literally means (from the Latin) "to lie down with."
dame: From dam, this is the etymological predecessor of M.I.L.F. But going even further, a few will chuckle at knowing that this she-parent term stems, in turn, from domina.
floozy or floozie: Nobody seems to know the origin of this word. It's contemporary usage means she is sexually promiscuous. (Floozies are also said to be tawdry - a truncated term from tawdry lace, a shortened form of Saint Audrey's lace, and meaning a kind of lace necktie. Named after Saint Etheldreda, Queen of Northumbria, who died in 679 of a throat tumor, supposedly because she delighted in fancy necklaces as a young woman.)
harlot: This is the Old French word arlot or herlot, "vagabond." Though it is used simply as a synonym for "prostitute," its original meaning is just that she's homeless and wandering about from place to place - presumably resulting in her willingness to, uh, take short-term employment.
harlot (II): But the following usage notes from American Heritage are quite interesting: "The word harlot nowadays refers to a particular kind of woman, but interestingly it used to refer to a particular kind of man. The word is first recorded in English in a work written around the beginning of the 13th century, meaning 'a man of no fixed occupation, vagabond, beggar,' and soon after meant 'male lecher.' Already in the 14th century it appears as a deprecatory word for a woman, though exactly how this meaning developed from the male sense is not clear. For a time the word could also refer to a juggler or jester of either sex, but by the close of the 17th century its usage referring to males had disappeared."
hooker: Nothing like naming a profession after its best customer! Maj. Gen. Joseph "Fighting Joe" Hooker, though probably incorrectly, is reputed to have given his name to the field of prostitution due to his men being the rowdiest, raunchiest, horniest bunch of wild guys in the Union Army, known for spending the entirety of their leave time in brothels. - This is disputed as the actual origin of the word, since using "hooker" as prostitute appears at least 15 years before the Civil War in North Carolina. The 1859 edition of John Russell Bartlett's Dictionary of Americanisms already defines "hooker" as âa strumpet, a sailor's troll.â So probably "hooker" just has its obvious sales meaning: Somebody good at snaring customers.
hussy: Literally, a housewife! It's original sexual meaning, therefore, was "adulteress."
jezebel: Named after the Biblical Queen Jezebel. Technically only applicable in modern English if she is "evil and scheming." Her nasty reputation came from encouraging idolatry and following her own inclinations, so it could be easily resurrected in modern times as a term of affection meaning "pagan bitch."
libertine: Not limited to women, but representative of a whole social movement characterized by "acts without moral restraint," "defying established religious precepts," and "free-thinking." Damn, no wonder it's a pejorative!
loose: I've always assumed that this usage referred to elasticity as a presumed measurement of experience. Does anyone know a different history?
moll: Gangster term originally a nickname for "Mary," but no virgin!
nymphomaniac: The medical profession picked this term for "pathologically excessive sexual desire by a female." It literally means "really wild and crazy, like a Greek nature spirit."
prostitute: The meaning, across millennia, is quite consistent for this professional woman in a time-honored profession. But the etymology is still interesting: The Latin prostituere literally means (I kid you not!), "to cause it to stand up in front." So really, it just means an effective professional woman. (The "stand up" part is the same root as statue.)
slut: Basically "dirty." Applied morally, but at root simply meaning unkempt and unwashed. (Many homeless people are "sluts" even if celibate.)
tart: One more modern term for a promiscuous woman. I suppose the usage comes from the conventional meaning, "a pastry shell with shallow sides, no top crust, and any of various fillings" - tasty, sweet, shallow, not crusty, nice filling, enjoy two or three with only a little guilt, etc. It might, however, intend a quiet pun on "sharp, cutting, incisive."
trollop: From a root meaning "to roll about or wallow." In other words, a feminine word for "pig." Describes the slovenly, dirty state, not the behavior. See slut above. Consider troll in its Internet sense.
wanton: It means "lacking a proper upbringing." (Middle English wan-, "lacking" + towen, p.p. of teen, "to bring up.") So the po' thing ain't got no right manners, eh? In contemporary language its main meaning is "unrestrained," which then spills over into describing things that unrestrained girls do.
This, I think, is the preeminent preferred Thelemic term, since the restraint itself - "restriction" of what is inherently true and natural and right - is the only thing we identify as "sin." A wanton is, by definition, the only true non-sinner! wench: M.E. wenchel just means a child. The term then came to mean "a young woman or girl, especially a peasant girl," and then "a young servant girl," and then... well you can see the "service occupation" double standard evolving right before your eyes, right?
whore: Ah, the word that began all of this. It just means "a woman with (sexual) desire." Here's the very interesting long-form etymology from American Heritage: "Derivatives of Indo-European roots have often acquired starkly contrasting meanings. A prime example is the case of the root *k-, "to like, desire." From it was derived a stem *kro-, from which came the prehistoric Common Germanic word *hraz with the underlying meaning "one who desires" and the effective meaning "adulterer." The feminine of this, *hrn-, became hre in Old English, the ancestor of Modern English whore. In another branch of the Indo-European family, the same stem *kro- produced the Latin word crus, "dear." This word has several derivatives borrowed into English, including caress, cherish, and charity, in Christian doctrine the highest form of love and the greatest of the theological virtues. - Another derivative of the root *k- in Indo-European was *kmo-, a descendant of which is the Sanskrit word for "love," kma, appearing in the name of the most famous treatise on love and lovemaking, the Kamasutra."
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I like "whores" probably a bit better than the average guy...lol I mean Free Women of course to all the women who are reading this.
As I was reading the topic postings, I noticed a contradiction come up within me. From a Thelemic perspective, I want women to be free, all of them scarlet women (little s, little w). I also want this in a larger social sense, as it is good for the evolution of the species.
The problem comes up when I remember my studies of genetics, sexual biology and anthropology. On a personal level I don't want my women to be whores, in fact, it goes against my very nature. As a reproducing male I need to prevent any promiscous behaviour from my woman for my genes to pass on. I can't leave it to chance; I might end up getting cuckolded.
So.. how do we reconcile our biological, DNA programming with this new Thelemic concept? How do we accept our Whore?
93, 93/93
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@whitewolf said
"The problem comes up when I remember my studies of genetics, sexual biology and anthropology. On a personal level I don't want my women to be whores, in fact, it goes against my very nature. As a reproducing male I need to prevent any promiscous behaviour from my woman for my genes to pass on. I can't leave it to chance; I might end up getting cuckolded.
So.. how do we reconcile our biological, DNA programming with this new Thelemic concept? How do we accept our Whore?"
Birth control?
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@whitewolf said
"The problem comes up when I remember my studies of genetics, sexual biology and anthropology. On a personal level I don't want my women to be whores, in fact, it goes against my very nature. As a reproducing male I need to prevent any promiscous behaviour from my woman for my genes to pass on. I can't leave it to chance; I might end up getting cuckolded.
So.. how do we reconcile our biological, DNA programming with this new Thelemic concept? How do we accept our Whore?"
I find it impossible to separate these sorts of biological explanations of sexuality and behavior from contemporary cultural expecatations of gender and sexuality. I suspect sociobiologists and others like this more or less project their expectations onto "nature" and then read back that behavior as natural. They tend to use two sorts of evidence. 1) Observations of other species. But we shape our observations and interpretations with our expectations. And 2) (Not really evidence at all. At all!) Constructing seemingly coherent stories about our evolution. It makes sense that... Well that doesn't provide any evidence at all. Why do these stories make sense? Perhaps because they fit our cultural expectations.
All that aside... Even if "nature" says something is a particular way, why just accept it? Some sociobiologists see men raping women as natural. Perhaps wishful thinking for some of them, but, regardless, even if "nature" said so, I wouldn't do it.
So to offer an answer your question... 1) Don't accept that you know what your DNA "wants" - not that it actually wants anything. 2) Don't accept that you or scientists know the relationship, if any, between behavior, genes, and evolution. 3) Don't accept genetic determinism4) Don't hand over your ethics to "nature" - I mean to scientists claiming to speak for "nature".
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Here's the short-form, cut-to-the-chase usage-based-on-etymology glossary based on the above details and laced with my sociological prejudices. We must learn to use our words correctly.
B-girl: "Bar girl," the "Buy me a drink, big guy?" sort of sales associate. Used pejoratively because she exercises sexual power over the poor plastered prick at his lowest moments.
bawd: A woman who runs (or works in ) a brothel.
bimbo: Italian for "baby." Now means, "someone too air-headed and naive to know what the guy is getting away with," but evolved to include "a woman really interested in sex."
blower: Take this one at "face" value.
broad: Outspoken woman.
concubine: Conventional dictionary meaning, from the root idea "to lie down with."
dame: M.I.L.F.
floozy: Sexually promiscuous woman.
harlot: "Vagabond." Homeless, wandering about from place to place, presuambly accepting (extremely) short-term employment. (Modern meaning: prostitute.)
hooker: Somebody good at snaring customers.
hussy: Housewife. Adulteress.
jezebel: Any evil and scheming woman. I recommend the word be rehabilitated to mean "pagan bitch" in an affectionate way.
libertine: One who acts without moral restraint, defies established religious precepts, and is free-thinking.
loose: Needs firming or tightening.
moll: Gangster gal.
nymphomaniac: Woman with pathologically excessive sexual desire, according to psychiatrists. More literally, a woman who is "really wild and crazy, like a Greek nature spirit."
prostitute: A woman (less often a man) who accepts money for sex. Specifically, a highly effective female professional.
slut: Dirty (used morally, but literally applies to the physically unkempt and unwashed).
tart: A promiscuous woman, especially one resembling a tasty sweet thing that is shallow, not crusty, has a nice filling, especially if you can enjoy two or three with only a little guilt.
trollop: A slut, i.e., one who is slovenly, dirty, and wallowing.
wanton: One who is unrestrained. (Thus, in Thelemic language, one who is not a sinner.)
wench: A child, especially a peasant girl, and especially any young girl in a service occupation.
whore: A horny woman.
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@sasha said
"However, it seems to me that Babalon, a supposed "whore", discriminates intensely and requires a committed relationship."
I disagree that the Babalon archetype discriminates at all - Her essential nature is to receive all.
Regarding committed relationships: Yes, she requires absolute devotion from her devotees and concubines, down to "the last drop of blood." It's rather one-sided on modern views of "committed relationship" since she, in turn, has an unlimited number of lovers. However, I agree regarding the absolute commitment she brings to that.
"She, by no means, opens herself to receive anyone, as folk, including Crowley, often phrase it."
Again, I disagree - since this is the one basic characteristic of her being. She is the archetypal Grail, receiving all things soever.
"But I don't think I get the Beast/Chaos."
Two variations of the Chokmah idea. Primal Logos. Mahalingam of eternally streaming life.
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@Edward Mason said
"We don't need to defend Babalon's "honor" for example, because she cannot be harmed or polluted to begin with. She can absorb and contain all."
During the early '80s, when Grady McMurtry had his Knights of Baphomet, his consort at the time wanted her own cadre of Knights of the Scarlet Woman. A few of us were knighted by her one night at my house. At Lon DuQuette's recommendation, the devotion was "to ever defend the honor of She who needs no defending."
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"So.. how do we reconcile our biological, DNA programming with this new Thelemic concept? How do we accept our Whore?
Birth control?
"Good answer... Actually, as a man, I was thinking of a female's promiscuity not outside of the core relationship, but affecting it directly, as say, having someone else's kid. It's in the literature, and it happens for a very good reason, and more often than is supposed.
"So to offer an answer your question... 1) Don't accept that you know what your DNA "wants" - not that it actually wants anything. 2) Don't accept that you or scientists know the relationship, if any, between behavior, genes, and evolution. 3) Don't accept genetic determinism4) Don't hand over your ethics to "nature" - I mean to scientists claiming to speak for "nature"."
I think I agree with you with respect to not accepting what our DNA wants, or even a certain scientist's thory, and I am skeptical. Yet, shouldn't the question be asked? I personally do not have control over my animal instincts however much I would like to believe I am. To give an example of sources, I am thinking of ideas which come from "The Red Queen" by Matt Ridley, and "The Selfish Gene" by Richard Dawkins.
"During the early '80s, when Grady McMurtry had his Knights of Baphomet, his consort at the time wanted her own cadre of Knights of the Scarlet Woman. A few of us were knighted by her one night at my house. At Lon DuQuette's recommendation, the devotion was "to ever defend the honor of She who needs no defending."
"Fascinating... I'd like to be a Knight of the Scarlet Woman too.
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@whitewolf said
"I am thinking of ideas which come from "The Red Queen" by Matt Ridley, and "The Selfish Gene" by Richard Dawkins."
Exactly the sorts of stories about our "animal insticts" that I question. We may have some physiological or genetically-based behaviors regarding sexuality, violence, etc., but I don't think scientists have yet given us a good account of it. I also don't really believe in a "natural" or "instictive" set of behaviors. This suggests that we have unnatural or non-animal or non-instictive behaviors. Which do we class as which? Can we tell the difference?
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@Jim Eshelman said
"I disagree that the Babalon archetype discriminates at all - Her essential nature is to receive all."
You mention archetypes. Does this mean that you refer to Babalon in a manner separate from Binah or its position above the abyss? If so, this may explain why I feel like I have talked past everyone or that we have discussed different issues using the same words.
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93 Sasha,
In one method of attributing the sephiroth to the Four Worlds, Chokmah and Binah are in the World of Briah. This is quite explicitly the realm of the "archetypes". So, there is no conflict in simultaneously seeing Babalon as an archetype, as well as a "trans-Abyss" concept.
93 93/93
David@sasha said
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@Jim Eshelman said
"I disagree that the Babalon archetype discriminates at all - Her essential nature is to receive all."You mention archetypes. Does this mean that you refer to Babalon in a manner separate from Binah or its position above the abyss? If so, this may explain why I feel like I have talked past everyone or that we have discussed different issues using the same words."
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@sasha said
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@Jim Eshelman said
"I disagree that the Babalon archetype discriminates at all - Her essential nature is to receive all."You mention archetypes. Does this mean that you refer to Babalon in a manner separate from Binah or its position above the abyss?"
No, nothing like that was meant. (In fact, quite the contrary is implied by the word "archetype"
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@Jim Eshelman said
"No, nothing like that was meant. (In fact, quite the contrary is implied by the word "archetype"
)"I should have said, "refer to Babalon in a manner BROADER THAN as a correspondance with Binah and relation to her position above the abyss". Though I don't know if that makes a difference to your response, Jim - though it does for Dshoemaker's.
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@sasha said
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@Jim Eshelman said
"No, nothing like that was meant. (In fact, quite the contrary is implied by the word "archetype" )"I should have said, "refer to Babalon in a manner BROADER THAN as a correspondance with Binah and relation to her position above the abyss". Though I don't know if that makes a difference to your response, Jim - though it does for Dshoemaker's."
I still think that the answer is the same I gave... though I must admit that, all of a sudden, I'm not at all sure I know what you are saying on this point. (For example, plugging in what I think you're saying doesn't make any difference in how I read David's answer.)