True Will
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93!
How does one know when he's doing his true will? Is it simply an unmistakable feeling? And if so, we all know that feelings have been known to be wrong. Any ideas on how to know?
Perhaps things just fall into place perfectly and you have a sense of peace in doing?
I heard some Yogi talk once and said that if you are doing what you are meant to do, then you will find ease. There will be obstacles of course but you always find a way through or around them. When you are doing something not of your will then you hit frequent obstacles and passing them is difficult. Another idea is that if you are searching then you haven't found it. Many people who seem to be doing what "they were meant to do" with the universe behind them, do it wholeheartedly and are not searching for something else. They have found their way.
Any comments on any of this?
I assume that a person's true will can't contain anything that would take the right of free will from another, hence someone like Hitler can't be said to be doing his true will, or a serial killer, etc. I read on some strange thelemic site that a serial killer could be doing what he was meant to do, I disagree with this idea, and I believe Thelema does also.
True will can't go against two things: LOVE and FREE WILL. If you are conflicting with either in yourself or another then it can't be your "true will." Just my ideas. Would love to hear yours.
93!
Hello,
I'm finding this topic of much interest as I have been contemplating it a great deal lately. In my recent change from a straight up Golden Dawn person to a Thelemite, I've tended to compare things from a Qabbalistic perspective. I've waded deeply into the Lurianic Texts and find striking similarities between them and Thelema. The concept of Will being Hidden and Revealed, Limited and Unlimited and further Revellation of Will only occurring through progressive Illumination, often requiring specific Mitzvot to adequately prepare the Vessel to receive the Light; as Analogous to the basic premises and practices of both. Our Willed Behavior (Actions - Mitzvot) prepares the forms of the Soul (The Inner Lights - Nephesch, Ruach, Neschamah) to progressively receive further Illumination, which in turn Reveals (throws more light on) more of Our True Will (Return to Perfection) which had until then remained hidden. After the person has had enough Revelation of what was previously hidden, the True Will becomes evident. This is my imperfect take on things at this stage of my experience.
Love is the Law, Love Under Will.
Olen
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93!
How does one know when he's doing his true will? Is it simply an unmistakable feeling? And if so, we all know that feelings have been known to be wrong. Any ideas on how to know?
Perhaps things just fall into place perfectly and you have a sense of peace in doing?
I heard some Yogi talk once and said that if you are doing what you are meant to do, then you will find ease. There will be obstacles of course but you always find a way through or around them. When you are doing something not of your will then you hit frequent obstacles and passing them is difficult. Another idea is that if you are searching then you haven't found it. Many people who seem to be doing what "they were meant to do" with the universe behind them, do it wholeheartedly and are not searching for something else. They have found their way.
Any comments on any of this?
I assume that a person's true will can't contain anything that would take the right of free will from another, hence someone like Hitler can't be said to be doing his true will, or a serial killer, etc. I read on some strange thelemic site that a serial killer could be doing what he was meant to do, I disagree with this idea, and I believe Thelema does also.
True will can't go against two things: LOVE and FREE WILL. If you are conflicting with either in yourself or another then it can't be your "true will." Just my ideas. Would love to hear yours.
@Fra.'. SPQR said
"The fact is becoming attached to the notions of having, wanting to find and carry out a divine-dictated purpose in life jeopardizes a successful passage through the abyss."
WHich, however, almost nobody will encounter in their present incarnations.
But it is the native goal for all to know and do the True Will.
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93!
How does one know when he's doing his true will? Is it simply an unmistakable feeling? And if so, we all know that feelings have been known to be wrong. Any ideas on how to know?
Perhaps things just fall into place perfectly and you have a sense of peace in doing?
I heard some Yogi talk once and said that if you are doing what you are meant to do, then you will find ease. There will be obstacles of course but you always find a way through or around them. When you are doing something not of your will then you hit frequent obstacles and passing them is difficult. Another idea is that if you are searching then you haven't found it. Many people who seem to be doing what "they were meant to do" with the universe behind them, do it wholeheartedly and are not searching for something else. They have found their way.
Any comments on any of this?
I assume that a person's true will can't contain anything that would take the right of free will from another, hence someone like Hitler can't be said to be doing his true will, or a serial killer, etc. I read on some strange thelemic site that a serial killer could be doing what he was meant to do, I disagree with this idea, and I believe Thelema does also.
True will can't go against two things: LOVE and FREE WILL. If you are conflicting with either in yourself or another then it can't be your "true will." Just my ideas. Would love to hear yours.
@Fra.'. SPQR said
"
@Fra.'. SPQR said
"The fact is becoming attached to the notions of having, wanting to find and carry out a divine-dictated purpose in life jeopardizes a successful passage through the abyss."@Jim Eshelman said
"Which, however, almost nobody will encounter in their present incarnations."
How times have changed. In Thien Tao Crowley alluded it would take an A.'.A.'. Aspirant ten years to become a Magister Templi; and at that period he wasn't at all confused in the differences between a Magister Templi and a Zelator Magister Templi."
And in the Constitution of the Order of Thelemites he put a formal qualification that a minimum of 11 years must pass between becoming an Adept and becoming a Master. And you can easily find other statements that appear to contradict both of those. He was inconsistent and was feeling his way through as he went.
I'm only saying that, in reality, that's a stage of growth that the vast majority of people in the world (99%+) simply won't reach in their present lifetime. I'm not even saying they couldn't - I really have no way of saying with certainty whether they could or couldn't - I'm only saying they won't.
The Next Step for humanity at this point in species progress is to attain to the Knowledge and Conversation of the Holy Guardian Angell In the lifetimes of those currently living, it isn't even likely that a majority - let along "most" - will attain even to this step, though there has been a really definite acceleration of this that can be observed in recent decades.
"What are you, writing on behalf of an A.'.A.'. lineage, saying, exactly?"
I'm making an observation that likely will be fairly plain to most readers. Most people in the world won't even attain that beauteous state that is five grades prior to, and a quantum leap removed from, the one to which you refer. This can be observed pretty easily.
My statement that "almost nobody will encounter [the 8=3 grade] in their present incarnations" is a mathematical statement. There are currently 6.66 billion people in the world (no joke - see www.ibiblio.org/lunarbin/worldpo for a current estimation clock), so even 1% is 66.6 million. Unless you expect that 66.6 million of the people currently alive will attain, in their present lifetimes, not only to the Knowledge & Converation of the Holy Guardian Angel (5=6) but to a full Crossing of the Abyss and resting within the City of the Pyramids (8=3), then it is fair statement that "almost nobody" will encounter that experience in their present incarnation.
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93!
How does one know when he's doing his true will? Is it simply an unmistakable feeling? And if so, we all know that feelings have been known to be wrong. Any ideas on how to know?
Perhaps things just fall into place perfectly and you have a sense of peace in doing?
I heard some Yogi talk once and said that if you are doing what you are meant to do, then you will find ease. There will be obstacles of course but you always find a way through or around them. When you are doing something not of your will then you hit frequent obstacles and passing them is difficult. Another idea is that if you are searching then you haven't found it. Many people who seem to be doing what "they were meant to do" with the universe behind them, do it wholeheartedly and are not searching for something else. They have found their way.
Any comments on any of this?
I assume that a person's true will can't contain anything that would take the right of free will from another, hence someone like Hitler can't be said to be doing his true will, or a serial killer, etc. I read on some strange thelemic site that a serial killer could be doing what he was meant to do, I disagree with this idea, and I believe Thelema does also.
True will can't go against two things: LOVE and FREE WILL. If you are conflicting with either in yourself or another then it can't be your "true will." Just my ideas. Would love to hear yours.
A nitpick from someone with nothing better to do right now:
One per cent of 6.66-trillion is 66.6-billion, not 666-billion.
Which is not to say it isn't a really big number.
Edward
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93!
How does one know when he's doing his true will? Is it simply an unmistakable feeling? And if so, we all know that feelings have been known to be wrong. Any ideas on how to know?
Perhaps things just fall into place perfectly and you have a sense of peace in doing?
I heard some Yogi talk once and said that if you are doing what you are meant to do, then you will find ease. There will be obstacles of course but you always find a way through or around them. When you are doing something not of your will then you hit frequent obstacles and passing them is difficult. Another idea is that if you are searching then you haven't found it. Many people who seem to be doing what "they were meant to do" with the universe behind them, do it wholeheartedly and are not searching for something else. They have found their way.
Any comments on any of this?
I assume that a person's true will can't contain anything that would take the right of free will from another, hence someone like Hitler can't be said to be doing his true will, or a serial killer, etc. I read on some strange thelemic site that a serial killer could be doing what he was meant to do, I disagree with this idea, and I believe Thelema does also.
True will can't go against two things: LOVE and FREE WILL. If you are conflicting with either in yourself or another then it can't be your "true will." Just my ideas. Would love to hear yours.
@Edward Mason said
"A nitpick from someone with nothing better to do right now:
One per cent of 6.66-trillion is 66.6-billion, not 666-billion.
Which is not to say it isn't a really big number."
Thanks for the catch. I'm going back to edit the original.
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93!
How does one know when he's doing his true will? Is it simply an unmistakable feeling? And if so, we all know that feelings have been known to be wrong. Any ideas on how to know?
Perhaps things just fall into place perfectly and you have a sense of peace in doing?
I heard some Yogi talk once and said that if you are doing what you are meant to do, then you will find ease. There will be obstacles of course but you always find a way through or around them. When you are doing something not of your will then you hit frequent obstacles and passing them is difficult. Another idea is that if you are searching then you haven't found it. Many people who seem to be doing what "they were meant to do" with the universe behind them, do it wholeheartedly and are not searching for something else. They have found their way.
Any comments on any of this?
I assume that a person's true will can't contain anything that would take the right of free will from another, hence someone like Hitler can't be said to be doing his true will, or a serial killer, etc. I read on some strange thelemic site that a serial killer could be doing what he was meant to do, I disagree with this idea, and I believe Thelema does also.
True will can't go against two things: LOVE and FREE WILL. If you are conflicting with either in yourself or another then it can't be your "true will." Just my ideas. Would love to hear yours.
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93!
How does one know when he's doing his true will? Is it simply an unmistakable feeling? And if so, we all know that feelings have been known to be wrong. Any ideas on how to know?
Perhaps things just fall into place perfectly and you have a sense of peace in doing?
I heard some Yogi talk once and said that if you are doing what you are meant to do, then you will find ease. There will be obstacles of course but you always find a way through or around them. When you are doing something not of your will then you hit frequent obstacles and passing them is difficult. Another idea is that if you are searching then you haven't found it. Many people who seem to be doing what "they were meant to do" with the universe behind them, do it wholeheartedly and are not searching for something else. They have found their way.
Any comments on any of this?
I assume that a person's true will can't contain anything that would take the right of free will from another, hence someone like Hitler can't be said to be doing his true will, or a serial killer, etc. I read on some strange thelemic site that a serial killer could be doing what he was meant to do, I disagree with this idea, and I believe Thelema does also.
True will can't go against two things: LOVE and FREE WILL. If you are conflicting with either in yourself or another then it can't be your "true will." Just my ideas. Would love to hear yours.
@Jim Eshelman said
"There are currently 6.66 trillion people in the world"
You mean 6.66 billion, don't you?
Dan
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93!
How does one know when he's doing his true will? Is it simply an unmistakable feeling? And if so, we all know that feelings have been known to be wrong. Any ideas on how to know?
Perhaps things just fall into place perfectly and you have a sense of peace in doing?
I heard some Yogi talk once and said that if you are doing what you are meant to do, then you will find ease. There will be obstacles of course but you always find a way through or around them. When you are doing something not of your will then you hit frequent obstacles and passing them is difficult. Another idea is that if you are searching then you haven't found it. Many people who seem to be doing what "they were meant to do" with the universe behind them, do it wholeheartedly and are not searching for something else. They have found their way.
Any comments on any of this?
I assume that a person's true will can't contain anything that would take the right of free will from another, hence someone like Hitler can't be said to be doing his true will, or a serial killer, etc. I read on some strange thelemic site that a serial killer could be doing what he was meant to do, I disagree with this idea, and I believe Thelema does also.
True will can't go against two things: LOVE and FREE WILL. If you are conflicting with either in yourself or another then it can't be your "true will." Just my ideas. Would love to hear yours.
That's what I get for rushing to get out the door. Thanks, all. Math corrected in the original.
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93!
How does one know when he's doing his true will? Is it simply an unmistakable feeling? And if so, we all know that feelings have been known to be wrong. Any ideas on how to know?
Perhaps things just fall into place perfectly and you have a sense of peace in doing?
I heard some Yogi talk once and said that if you are doing what you are meant to do, then you will find ease. There will be obstacles of course but you always find a way through or around them. When you are doing something not of your will then you hit frequent obstacles and passing them is difficult. Another idea is that if you are searching then you haven't found it. Many people who seem to be doing what "they were meant to do" with the universe behind them, do it wholeheartedly and are not searching for something else. They have found their way.
Any comments on any of this?
I assume that a person's true will can't contain anything that would take the right of free will from another, hence someone like Hitler can't be said to be doing his true will, or a serial killer, etc. I read on some strange thelemic site that a serial killer could be doing what he was meant to do, I disagree with this idea, and I believe Thelema does also.
True will can't go against two things: LOVE and FREE WILL. If you are conflicting with either in yourself or another then it can't be your "true will." Just my ideas. Would love to hear yours.
<deleted>
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93!
How does one know when he's doing his true will? Is it simply an unmistakable feeling? And if so, we all know that feelings have been known to be wrong. Any ideas on how to know?
Perhaps things just fall into place perfectly and you have a sense of peace in doing?
I heard some Yogi talk once and said that if you are doing what you are meant to do, then you will find ease. There will be obstacles of course but you always find a way through or around them. When you are doing something not of your will then you hit frequent obstacles and passing them is difficult. Another idea is that if you are searching then you haven't found it. Many people who seem to be doing what "they were meant to do" with the universe behind them, do it wholeheartedly and are not searching for something else. They have found their way.
Any comments on any of this?
I assume that a person's true will can't contain anything that would take the right of free will from another, hence someone like Hitler can't be said to be doing his true will, or a serial killer, etc. I read on some strange thelemic site that a serial killer could be doing what he was meant to do, I disagree with this idea, and I believe Thelema does also.
True will can't go against two things: LOVE and FREE WILL. If you are conflicting with either in yourself or another then it can't be your "true will." Just my ideas. Would love to hear yours.
"You and Jim may remain without a modicum of intellectual integrity, but do me this favor: Don't expect me to play along with the solar return sing-song, because to my death I wont. I'll call the b.s. out as I see it, irrespective of the simplistic, empty quips and noise (which includes silence) to my signal."
Apart from its being needlessly discourteous and carrying a sense of ego-inflation, this paragraph is baffling to me. What do you mean by 'play along with the solar return sing-song" ?
Edward
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93!
How does one know when he's doing his true will? Is it simply an unmistakable feeling? And if so, we all know that feelings have been known to be wrong. Any ideas on how to know?
Perhaps things just fall into place perfectly and you have a sense of peace in doing?
I heard some Yogi talk once and said that if you are doing what you are meant to do, then you will find ease. There will be obstacles of course but you always find a way through or around them. When you are doing something not of your will then you hit frequent obstacles and passing them is difficult. Another idea is that if you are searching then you haven't found it. Many people who seem to be doing what "they were meant to do" with the universe behind them, do it wholeheartedly and are not searching for something else. They have found their way.
Any comments on any of this?
I assume that a person's true will can't contain anything that would take the right of free will from another, hence someone like Hitler can't be said to be doing his true will, or a serial killer, etc. I read on some strange thelemic site that a serial killer could be doing what he was meant to do, I disagree with this idea, and I believe Thelema does also.
True will can't go against two things: LOVE and FREE WILL. If you are conflicting with either in yourself or another then it can't be your "true will." Just my ideas. Would love to hear yours.
93,
If I may digress from the main topic of this thread for a moment... I would like to address the question of etiquette.
A large number of Thelemites seem to have interpreted "Do what thou wilt" as a license to behave without thought or consideration. Apparently manners are considered "un-Thelemic." On the contrary, I would argue that manners are useful tools for Thelemites.
What is the purpose of etiquette? I would describe it as twofold: firstly, etiquette allows persons who may have differing or even opposing views or interests to interact with each other, learn from each other, negotiate with each other, and even work with each other. Without the "social lubricant" of etiquette, discussion of difficult topics and issues would be impossible. The annoyance factor would quickly outweigh the benefits of discussion and social congress would end.
Secondly, etiquette is a social marker that proves one worthy of reciprocal respect and consideration. By behaving in a "noble" fashion, with the sort of restraint and generosity that kings would employ, one indicates that one is a person of quality and discipline, and worthy of respect. Think of the movie "Kingdom of Heaven" (if you have seen it). Leaving aside historical considerations, remember the noble bearing of Balian, King Baldwin, and Saladin. Also remember the boorish antics of Guy de Lusignan. Leaving historical considerations aside, which characters seemed more regal, more deserving of respect?
Some Thelemites may make the mistake of thinking that manners are the same as "making nice," and may confuse etiquette with obedience to authoritarian controls. Nothing could be farther from the truth. Etiquette is a tool that will allow you to pursue your True Will, whatever that is, without losing forward momentum to friction. What moves faster through the air; an arrow, or a cardboard box? The arrow offers no resistance to the world around it except at its one point of Will. It is also possible to remain polite while not being nice at all, as numerous movie villains have shown us.
By rude behavior, you may lose the good will of those who might be in a position to help you later. You never know when you might need someone. Don't throw away good will without good cause.
93 93/93
Anna -
93!
How does one know when he's doing his true will? Is it simply an unmistakable feeling? And if so, we all know that feelings have been known to be wrong. Any ideas on how to know?
Perhaps things just fall into place perfectly and you have a sense of peace in doing?
I heard some Yogi talk once and said that if you are doing what you are meant to do, then you will find ease. There will be obstacles of course but you always find a way through or around them. When you are doing something not of your will then you hit frequent obstacles and passing them is difficult. Another idea is that if you are searching then you haven't found it. Many people who seem to be doing what "they were meant to do" with the universe behind them, do it wholeheartedly and are not searching for something else. They have found their way.
Any comments on any of this?
I assume that a person's true will can't contain anything that would take the right of free will from another, hence someone like Hitler can't be said to be doing his true will, or a serial killer, etc. I read on some strange thelemic site that a serial killer could be doing what he was meant to do, I disagree with this idea, and I believe Thelema does also.
True will can't go against two things: LOVE and FREE WILL. If you are conflicting with either in yourself or another then it can't be your "true will." Just my ideas. Would love to hear yours.
93,
Anna has made a lot of good points. I would like to just add one more, which is that no one has a clue as to what you are communicating when you talk of intellectual dishonesty and solar whatever.
The purpose of your postings is communication with others, isn't it?
I am interested in why you thought that somehow Jim and others are perpetuating some sort of fraud. If you provide the context of your remarks, I would appreciate it. I would also like to add that I am only studying Thelema and not, as yet, a Thelemite. I like JAE and Zeph, but not just everyone. Crowley's work is fascinating and beautiful, though.
Thanks,
chrys333