frustrated!
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Yes, I hear the frustration and confusion - you definitely aren't alone!
In fact, you sound like a more agitated version of where I found myself in December 1978, which led to the inner certainty that I had gone as far as I could without finding teacher to provide a road and guidance.
That may not be where you are, of course - but I recognize the rest of it
I certainly wouldn't recommend you abandon grad school. It sounds like you have your head on very solidly on that issue.
And then... I'm not sure what you're asking, either. But I hear what what you're saying!
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@SophiaLux said
"Before I even knew there was a Book of the Law or a spiritual path that could save my life, I was attending graduate school (a non-terminating masters/phd program). This is the career that I want. i am passionate about my work and think I would be really unhappy trying to pursue something else. And graduate school is not something you can walk away from and ever expect to be invited back."
I hear you. I first got into this stuff when I was in grad school as well, but it's only now, much later (I just hit the big four-oh) that I've both had the time -- and felt "ready" -- to begin something like a consistent training program. I'm doing that now via a structured, but still relatively toned-down and solitary version of the A.'.A.'. work (Jason Newcomb's New Hermetics, fwiw).
By the way, I initially read "non-terminating" above as if it were a joke: i.e., when you're in school, it always seems like it'll never "terminate!" but I get the technical meaning, too...
"At the same time I find myself stumbling and lost in all aspects of my life. My work and my Work are shoddy and often nonexistant."
I hear this, too. What worked for me in grad school was, frankly, to set lower expectations on the esoteric side. Just reading and re-reading the basic material was enough for me for about a decade -- along with online discussions. For me, things like Regardie's Golden Dawn books, Crowley's MinT&P, and online study programs like Colin Low's Notes on Kabbalah (plugged several times by me in this forum) gave me meals to eat for a long time before I had the firm desire to learn to "cook in the kitchen..."
I have no idea if the above is helpful in your situation, though.
Steve
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@SophiaLux said
"The thing is, while I am a good "self-teacher" to a certain degree, i tend to give up when I hit points of confusion that I can't figure out on my own. If I don't have someone (like a real-live person or two or eight) checking up on me and offering occasional explanations and helpful hints I might as well not even start a project because I won't finish it.
I'm not sure what I'm asking for here. Advice? Analysis? Am I just arguing with myself? Am I making excuses for not being diligent enough on my own? I wish I could ask someone these things irl--someone who knows me and how I work. It seems like its not going to happen (at least for another --wasted?-- six years or so)."
Six years is really not a long time, and you can certainly make productive use of the time with what you know now (experiment). If the Thelemic community isn't there, is there any other community which you would be able to guidance from? Getting a different perspective from a group with similar goals has helped me from time to time. Otherwise, what can you do to increase your Thelemic community? If you can't move to a "learning community" can you attract such a community to you? You could try posting to this forum whatever is confusing to you at this time - what's the worst that could happen?
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Hm, thank you all. I actually found your replies quite helpful or at least reassuring. While i agree there is a considerable amount of work to be done on my own, it is hard not to be able to discuss things with someone in real time.
Actually my friends and I have been trying to get a group together here--maybe with more work it will actually happen.
I also appreciated your comments Steven about your experience in grad school. Very reassuring and its true, there are things I can focus on in the time i do have.
I suppose i just do poorly with what can be perceived as stagnation (in some contexts I do not allow myself to "rest" or "reflect" for this very reason, which is a weakness). While I am sure my frustration will continue to flare up at intervals, re-reading this post I think I just need to clam down and take opportunities where they arise.
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"Actually my friends and I have been trying to get a group together here--maybe with more work it will actually happen. "
In the wise words of Yoda, **'Do or do not...there is no try!' **
Which also ties into your sense of stagnation -- you need to motivate those who are interested in seriously moving out of the socializing, theorizing model and into the practicum of the Work. The tools are before you and easily accessible, you have a community of aspirants and adepts who can aid you and your group in any questions you might have [well almost any questions you might have]. The next step is entirely yours -- as a collective.
I think the Work needs to start where you are and not moving towards something that seems like the Emerald City is not what necessarily need to happen, as we know what the real desire and understanding was at the end of that wonderful metaphorical story called, the Wizard of Oz [77] -- Dorothy just wanted to come home -- the Truth is where we are NOW.
That said, I am here in Santa Fe, New Mexico and willing to share what I know as you move towards the fomulation of your magical group...and believe me it is not hard to do, just take the step forward and the rest will fall into place.
Blessings to your DESIRE and LOVE.
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@SophiaLux said
"At the same time I find myself stumbling and lost in all aspects of my life. My work and my Work are shoddy and often nonexistant.
The thing is, while I am a good "self-teacher" to a certain degree, i tend to give up when I hit points of confusion that I can't figure out on my own. If I don't have someone (like a real-live person or two or eight) checking up on me and offering occasional explanations and helpful hints I might as well not even start a project because I won't finish it.
I'm not sure what I'm asking for here. Advice? Analysis? Am I just arguing with myself? Am I making excuses for not being diligent enough on my own? I wish I could ask someone these things irl--someone who knows me and how I work. It seems like its not going to happen (at least for another --wasted?-- six years or so).
Frustrated. Confused.
M"
Just judging from myself, please don't get offended: Do you think that you practice as far as practicing without a teacher can get you??? Because I'm always seriously worried about not having a group or a teacher near me, and then point out to myself that practically I'm not even near to really needing one to advance further. For example, what's your (daily) relation with Liber O and/or Liber E???
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@SophiaLux said
"Indeed I know there is a lot to do on my own. A supportive community is always an asset though."
SophiaLux,
I have been in a similar situation for a few years and after looking at my options, my solution was to become a member of Aspirants to Light, which has been spoken of on this forum. I still live far away from the magical communities I link to, but I travel to them several times a year to attend meetings and spend quality time with a growing number of Thelemites. This face to face contact fills a lot of gaps for me, even though it seems like it is over far too quickly when I'm on the plane home.
Maintaining relationships via e-mail and occasional phone calls has helped me to continue the Work where I am without feeling so isolated. It is making a tremendous difference for me, until I get to the point of being able to relocate. This solution is not for everyone, but I thought I'd toss it out as another option.
In LVX,
Donna -
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@SophiaLux said
"Indeed I know there is a lot to do on my own. A supportive community is always an asset though."
In my experience groups have always been a terrible terrible hindrance. The one superior of the AA system seems perfect on the other hand.
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"The one superior of the AA system seems perfect on the other hand."
Not clear on what you mean.
Thanks,
chrys333 -
@Chris Hanlon said
""The one superior of the AA system seems perfect on the other hand."
Not clear on what you mean.
Thanks,
chrys333"i think he's refering to the fact that you don't really do group work in the AA but have your teacher a grade above you and your student a grade below you.
at least ideally
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Pretty much yes - and even then the neophyte is said to learn 'in spite' of the well meaning teacher . (I forget Crowleys exact quote) I just think there are many distractions on even a solo path and I'm sure everyones heard drama stories of both prominent and relatively occult groups.
Of course someone can keep focused on the learning or the experience of group rites and not the camaraderie or social aspects group work can be very valuable.
I guess I'm just offering a word of caution to anyone who may be tempted to think everything is going to be gravy when finding a group.
'Course , sometimes it actually is -
@SophiaLux said
"I am becoming really frustrated. Right now my "thelemic Community" consists of me and a couple of buddies who like to study Magick. We can talk theory all night but thats about as far as it gets. I met a person a while back who was getting ready to make a big move out of this defunct town in order to be closer to a real learning community. i have a feeling that if I were really "serious about progressing" I would do the same. My boyf has been wanting to do just that since before we met.
Heres my problem: Before I even knew there was a Book of the Law or a spiritual path that could save my life, I was attending graduate school (a non-terminating masters/phd program). This is the career that I want. i am passionate about my work and think I would be really unhappy trying to pursue something else. And graduate school is not something you can walk away from and ever expect to be invited back. i suppose after I get my Masters I could ask to transfer somewhere, but my field is very specialized and I am currently in the best lab in the country for it.
At the same time I find myself stumbling and lost in all aspects of my life. My work and my Work are shoddy and often nonexistant.
The thing is, while I am a good "self-teacher" to a certain degree, i tend to give up when I hit points of confusion that I can't figure out on my own. If I don't have someone (like a real-live person or two or eight) checking up on me and offering occasional explanations and helpful hints I might as well not even start a project because I won't finish it.
I'm not sure what I'm asking for here. Advice? Analysis? Am I just arguing with myself? Am I making excuses for not being diligent enough on my own? I wish I could ask someone these things irl--someone who knows me and how I work. It seems like its not going to happen (at least for another --wasted?-- six years or so).
Frustrated. Confused.
M"
Fear Not daughter of mankind, for thou hast attained unto the summit of Babalon.
Thou hast thy will.
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this was already touched upon i think, but my advice would be to join the A' A', or some other organization that is right for you. the solo work paired with having someone to talk to if you need it will provide you a structure and would not interfere with your schooling.
just a suggestion.