Speedbumps along the Path
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I have opted to post a conversation between Jim and I about just one dead ends I've run into in search of a link to A.'.A.'. I have removed names of individuals and the like for obvious reasons, but any comment on the questions I state below would be appreciated.
Jim,
Do what thou wilt shall be the whole of the Law.I am very sorry to bring this subject to solunars but for some reason my computer wont access heruraha.net. Anyway I would very much appriciate your advice on this subject if you will to reply.
My concern is that recently I contacted an AA body close to my home and receved a prompt reply. Which at first seems a good thing, when I found out who was replying I was questionable on the whole thing. Do you know of a ...............? He was a student of Marcello Motta's. what do you make of this? Please, your insight would be greatly appriciated.
93 93/93
RickyRicky,
Do what thou wilt shall be the whole of the Law.
Years ago we adopted the policy of not commenting on other claimants to A.'.A.'. authority unless I had reason to believe that significant actual harm would result otherwise.
I'm not willing to say that ............ and his group would be a source of significant actual harm, so I really have to refrain from answering your understandable and reasonable question.
I will add, as a point of pure history, that Motta (despite claims to the contrary) never got past 1=10 under Germer.
I suggest you ask questions of them based on published information of how the A.'.A.'. was designed to operate. You can get a lot of concrete information from ordoaa.org about individual grades, tasks, expectations, testing, etc.
Jim, 93!
Thank you for the speedy reply, and thank you for easing my mind a bit.
Atleast I know I wont get torn limb from limb by Choronzon! haha!
Despite these things, how could I forge a path to real initiation? Is it true that most if not all initiation in AA is a growing or widening of understanding concerning ones universe? The Teacher is just there to guide right?
phoinix93 wrote:Despite these things, how could I forge a path to real initiation? Is it true that most if not all initiation in AA is a growing or widening of understanding concerning ones universe? The Teacher is just there to guide right?
This isn't an easy question to answer in yes/no, because an answer is likely to be confusing or misleading. Don't confuse it with "just getting more enlightened." It is a very specific path with specific teachings. How much direct didactic interaction exists with the teacher varies from aspirant to aspirant according to their individual relationship, and the Probationer grade, in particular, has relatively little of it - but that does change after 0=0.
So, what's the problem of you not being able to get to heruraha.net? That's where this conversation should be taking place, and we should solve that problem for you. You can't get there by clicking the following link? heruraha.ne
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93,
"I always find it funny how many people feel like having someone tell them what to do is their next step in their magical practice (it could easily be!) "
Well, at some point, all of us are doing that, right? If the territory is unknown, we're going to check with whoever seems to own a copy of the Lonely Planet Guide to Regions Unknown. Self-assurance comes later on.
93 93/93,
EM
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"And you posted this because....? "
Oh, sorry let me point out the question for you...
Despite these things, how could I forge a path to real initiation? Is it true that most if not all initiation in AA is a growing or widening of understanding concerning ones universe? The Teacher is just there to guide right?
"I always find it funny how many people feel like having someone tell them what to do is their next step in their magical practice (it could easily be!)"
Maybe you have had the good fortune to be around people who could show you a thing or two that you may possibly be doing incorrectly, or maybe you have never had a question that you needed to ask about anything.
Do you hold that willing initiation in an order that could guide one to the K&C of their HGA, in a direct and timely fashion, is a need to be told what to do?
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@phoinix93 said
"Despite these things, how could I forge a path to real initiation?"
Find an initiator and commit, through completion, to the program of the one you pick.
"Is it true that most if not all initiation in AA is a growing or widening of understanding concerning ones universe? The Teacher is just there to guide right?"
I wouldn't say "no" but, on the other hand, I would never have put it that way. It's not clear to me what your use of "just" is veiling
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"I wouldn't say "no" but, on the other hand, I would never have put it that way. It's not clear to me what your use of "just" is veiling "
What I am trying to ask is this;
The initiator/teacher is there for guidance and judgment of progress, correct?
But isn't it also the case that the initiating body puts the student "online" so to speek, with the current of that body?
That being said, raises another question. If the above is true, how could self initiation even work?
"Find an initiator and commit, through completion, to the program of the one you pick."
This has been the plan all along but so far all I have found have been, well, unexceptable. Around here at least.
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@phoinix93 said
"The initiator/teacher is there for guidance and judgment of progress, correct? "
Yes, among many other things.
"But isn't it also the case that the initiating body puts the student "online" so to speek, with the current of that body?"
Yes, if it is a "contacted" Order it surely does this.
"That being said, raises another question. If the above is true, how could self initiation even work? "
I've never been persuaded that it can. The few examples that appear to me to be exceptions also appear to have strong karmic elements - that is, the person reached a very high level of attainmnet in a previous incarnation and is recapping ("refresher") once the physical and subtle bodies have reached sufficient maturity.
"
"Find an initiator and commit, through completion, to the program of the one you pick."This has been the plan all along but so far all I have found have been, well, unexceptable. Around here at least.
"
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To be frank, after a good ten years of searching, the Temple of Thelema seems the best I have found.
Unfortunately I live in the UK and have not the resources to emigrate. I'd be the first to admit I'm struggling right now. I didn't realise that even six months dedicated training would reveal all manner of 'demons' - repressions, rages, animal impulses, lonliness, confusion, absolute depression, and facing facets of myself i never even knew existed - so far NONE of them positive. Then there is the obsession on any external anima I can find...I realise that this would be the case even with an initiator but I have the feeling they would at least have some suggestions on how to deal with these issues. Every day I want to give up yet every day I find myself doing the practices.
Maybe this is a rant but the last 3 weeks have been absolute hell and really wish I had competent personal help here.
Gets back into asana and tries to continue...
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@Anchorite said
"Unfortunately I live in the UK and have not the resources to emigrate. I'd be the first to admit I'm struggling right now. I didn't realise that even six months dedicated training would reveal all manner of 'demons' - repressions, rages, animal impulses, lonliness, confusion, absolute depression, and facing facets of myself i never even knew existed - so far NONE of them positive. Then there is the obsession on any external anima I can find..."
A key thing to remember is that everything you are finding about yourself - if authentic - is something you have to own. Negative value judgements about these things are exactly that - judgements, or the imposition of meaning on something that is inherently neutral. Neutral because "it is what it is," and because there is no going forward while you are holding back - repressing, hating, wishing to be rid of - any sizable chunk of yourself that's real.
These things tend to seem negative because they have tendrils into emotionally charged blind spots. Looked at neutrally - detached from that emotional charge - they easily become "just what's so." A later stage is that one comes to see what they really are and what gift is inherent in them.
"I realise that this would be the case even with an initiator but I have the feeling they would at least have some suggestions on how to deal with these issues. Every day I want to give up yet every day I find myself doing the practices."
You've opened the can of worms. Might as well get the reward that comes from persistence - from continuing to the end of the particular story you're witnessing, and experiencing the twist at the end of the story.
"Maybe this is a rant but the last 3 weeks have been absolute hell and really wish I had competent personal help here."
Hades, after all, is Had in many respects.
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"Quote:
Find an initiator and commit, through completion, to the program of the one you pick.This has been the plan all along but so far all I have found have been, well, unexceptable. Around here at least.
"The Fr. 939 scenario was unexeptable... I mean how can one learn from some one if I quetion their attainment
But then who am I to quetion any attainment that is not my own
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@phoinix93 said
"The Fr. 939 scenario was unexeptable... "
It seems that you are expecting us to be familiar with this story? Who is Frater 939 and what are you talking about?
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"Who is Frater 939 and what are you talking about?"
Sorry. From above:
Jim wrote:
"I'm not willing to say that ............ and his group would be a source of significant actual harm, so I really have to refrain from answering your understandable and reasonable question.
"After I did some more research on this I came to the conclusion that I would not be comfortable with this specific group.
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Got it. Thanks. (Lost track of that leg of the conversation.)