The Shiva Sanhita & The Writings of Kwang Tze
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@ThatNarrowFellow said
"93,
I just wanted to jump in here and mention that as I am currently attempting to read the Chuang Zi in Chinese, I feel the translation of Burton Watson is superior to the others I have seen.
But you know, to each his own and all that.
Love=Law
- C"
Interesting suggestion. Can you send a link to an edition you would approve of?
IAO131
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93,
Sure, but I should preface it by saying I am not fluent in Chinese, just pursuing a Masters in Asian Studies. I find Watson's translation to be direct and to the point, which is in-line with the Chinese, in my opinion, and also he gives a wealth of footnotes which can aid in further reading, and help elucidate some references (kind of like when you read T.S. Elliot in a Literature textbook.)
The Complete Works of Chuang Tzu, is the one I have. Amazon has it, but it's rather pricey.
You can also find it at bookfinder.com, but it's even more expensive so I don't know why you would.
Love=Law
- C, who is sometimes called Shangren.
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Thanks guys...they should arrive in the next 4 days or so.
616
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Would Chuang Tzu: Basic Writings or The Inner Chapters suffice as part of the Student Reading Curriculum rather than The Complete Writings of Chuang Tzu? I mean, what's the difference other than $40? & are'nt the remaining chapters(those other than the 7 inner chapters) the works of his students?
L.Lazuli
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@Lapis said
"Would The Basic Writings of Chuang Tzu or The Inner Chapters suffice as part of the Student Reading Curriculum rather than The Complete Writings of Chuang Tzu? I mean, what's the difference other than $40? & are'nt the remaining chapters(those other than the 7 inner chapters) the works of his students?
L.Lazuli"
I can't speak for what the A.'.A.'. or TOT will or will not accept, but there is only one book of Chuang Tzu, in numerous translations and multiple spellings of Chuang Tzu. I would think the important question is whether the book you buy has the whole thing or just selections. There is no reason to pay $40; the Chuang Tzu should be readily available in affordable editions.
(As for whether parts of the book were written by his students, I'm sure that's a question of lively and fruitless scholarly debate. It's all good fun to read, whoever wrote it. When Crowley put this work on a reading list, he meant the whole thing regardless of authorship. He would have known the fine translation by Legge.)
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@gmugmble said
"I would think the important question is whether the book you buy has the whole thing or just selections."
How many sections are in the entire text?
The Inner Chapters has seven chapters...Basic Writings has eleven...Complete Writings has twenty...& the Penguin Classic version has twenty-four...L.Lazuli
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@Lapis said
"
@gmugmble said
"I would think the important question is whether the book you buy has the whole thing or just selections."How many sections are in the entire text?
The Inner Chapters has seven chapters...Basic Writings has eleven...Complete Writings has twenty...& the Penguin Classic version has twenty-four...L.Lazuli"
93 Lapis,
Apparently there are 33 chapters in the original as are in Burton Watsons' Complete Writings...the others you mentioned are incomplete.
93 93/93
616
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I guess I should have taken a look at the book market before I opened my mouth (metaphorically speaking). Finding a decent copy of Chuang Tzu is harder than I thought. My apologies. I guess during the "occult revival" of the 70s, when I grew up, you could find inexpensive editions of all sorts of great books without much difficulty, but now you cannot.
My edition of Chuang Tzu -- a trade paperback now falling apart that I bought for a whopping $1.50 -- is a reworking of the James Legge translation edited by Clae Waltham called Chuang Tzu: genius of the absurd. It has 33 chapters. You can get a used copy of the same 1971 (!) edition on abebooks.com and www.sacred-texts.com/tao/sbe40/index.htm
Sorry my advice turned out to be so worthless
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@gmugmble said
"Sorry my advice turned out to be so worthless
"Awwe! come on gmugmble! it wasn't worthless! If you hadn't mentioned something about it having the right number of sections I'd have never investigated them! your suggestion could be the bud that blooms into the flower of 'everyone from here on out buying the right copy'!
L.Lazuli
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93,
My copy of the Burton Watson is back in the states, but I recall it including an essay discussing the authorial debate.
I believe the 7 chapters, or inner chapters, and are accepted by most people as coming from Chuang Tzu, and then there's a second set that is under heated debate, and a third set that is generally accepted by everyone to be the work of his students, or people who read him and decided that they understood him and therefore could use his name.
My Chinese copy is divided into 3 sections. 7 "inner chapters," 9 "outer chapters," and 5 "assorted (or miscellaneous) chapters."
Sadly, the Chinese edition includes no helpful essays to alleviate the confusion.
For what it's worth I found every chapter in the Watson book to be helpful, even if it came from students and not the lips of the master.
I'm going to jump back in and edit this because I spoke to a Chinese friend who is also studying Chuang Tzu, and he said according to Chinese scholarship, only the 1st 7, or inner chapters, are attributed to Chuang Tzu, while all the rest are attributed to students or others. In total there are 33, he says, but in terms of what is a chapter and what is included in a given collection this is probably arbitrary.
He also pointed out that some of the chapters attributed to others were actually penned by various sects attempting to co-opt the sage's name in order to advance their own agenda.
Hope this helps.
Love=Law
- C