Chastity
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@Malaclypse said
"I apologize for perhaps taking this a bit further off the topic, but I gotta ask. I read by Wilhelm Reich that the supposed orgone particles turn into a damaging reaction if left to simply build up. Is there a special emphasis on doing some inner activity (like lots of yoga) with the orgone particles instead of having sex, or has his theory become moot?"
Bypassing the literalness of Reich's theory and going for the underlying principles...
Reiterating all of the "depends on the person for the details" remarks I made above, we can generalize that the build-up, if left sufficiently liong and stagnant, will pathologize.
One question in this, though, is, "What is too long?" Another is, "What makes it stagnant?" Analogies to water enhance the intuition in navigating this, but not as completely as one might like.
Non-sexual expression of the same energy can prevent stagnation, particularly if that activity is distinctively creative. Allowing it to build for a time is a valuable preparation for some magical workings, but this prep will fail if one builds up by shutting oneself down. That is, the juice must be flowing.
I think that, more than the build-up itself, the more direct cause of pathology is if one resists this energy's presence, or tries to shut down the channels. Sexual repression is far more destructive than "just not getting any." An important key is to continue having sexual feelings, continue letting the enrgy move through you and generate the physical and emotional reactions, delight in it but (for purposes of chastity) don't seek it. Living with this life-force flowing through you is quite different than living while trying not to have sexual feelings. (Most adult humans still prefer "not feeling it" if they're "not getting any." That's the mistake.)
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@Jim Eshelman said
"An important key is to continue having sexual feelings, continue letting the enrgy move through you and generate the physical and emotional reactions, delight in it but (for purposes of chastity) don't seek it."
This much easier said than done though!
How exactly does one cultivate and flow with this energy, rather than become mired and distracted in a miasmic mental fog of sexual craving?
It can be hard to remain "chaste" and one-pointed when you're already ...... one pointed after another fashion.
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@Her said
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@Jim Eshelman said
"An important key is to continue having sexual feelings, continue letting the enrgy move through you and generate the physical and emotional reactions, delight in it but (for purposes of chastity) don't seek it."This much easier said than done though!
"You're right about that one!
Which is probably why this isn't historically assigned to people at an early stage of the training.
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@Jim Eshelman said
"Which is probably why this isn't historically assigned to people at an early stage of the training."
True, but even the probabtioner must contend with this to some degree in the final two months of probation.
The strength of sex drive differs quite widely from person to person. So while a person with a naturally low drive would breeze those two months, another person might end up banging their head against a wall out of sheer frustration instead of focusing on their probationary tasks. -
@Her said
"True, but even the probabtioner must contend with this to some degree in the final two months of probation."
At the end of Probation, yes.
And I consider anyone who gets to Probationer in A.'.A.'. already as not "in the early stage of the training."
But this becomes much easier - WAY easier - after a couple of more grades.
"The strength of sex drive differs quite widely from person to person. So while a person with a naturally low drive would breeze those two months, another person might end up banging their head against a wall out of sheer frustration instead of focusing on their probationary tasks."
But a person who breezes through due to a low sex drive isn't going to get much out of it. It's the person with a strong sex drive who can really be transformed in a very big way by the alchemical workings of this task.
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Do what thou wilt shall be the whole of the Law.
I've often wondered if this is meant to draw the initiate away from the chemical response of being "in love," namely the endorphins and such.
And what of the partner in all this? Speaking as one is who is "in love" with my partner, and whose sexual activity goes toward what is perceived as a holy spiritual bond well beyond the typical endorphin response, how to justify the refrain for the other person? To those intellectualizing this, it's very simple. To the victims of this abstinence, it's perceived as torture. Sensuality is the only glue for many bonds.
I'm not trying to undo the requirement. I'm literally asking for advice.
Love is the law, love under will.
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@jlpugh said
"And what of the partner in all this? Speaking as one is who is "in love" with my partner, and whose sexual activity goes toward what is perceived as a holy spiritual bond well beyond the typical endorphin response, how to justify the refrain for the other person? To those intellectualizing this, it's very simple. To the victims of this abstinence, it's perceived as torture. Sensuality is the only glue for many bonds."
The fact that you used the word "victim" suggests you're missing some of what happens in this practice.
In any case, one would hope that, in a relationship such as you are describing, there would be support from the partner for tasks you need to undertake for your selected personal work.
Personal opinion: I would have to question the long-term value of a relationhip where sensuality is the only glue. (Obviously that touches on an issue you would need to decide for yourself.)
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Vi veri universum vivus vici
It is a challenge, but we found it to be highly beneficial to the interpretation of neccesities leading my personal quest for Augoeides, if you are having difficulty refraining from sexual stimulation consider utilization of a chastity device, and accountability to a trusted person for the committment of non-accessibililty. (We used a CB-3000 for 6 months)
Should you wish to bypass this undescribable experience you may consider that you may not be ready for the resulting perceptual views that are added to the conciousness of any person willing to accept this truly magickal undertaking.
D' wat thou wilt -
If you need an external device to control you, then you aren't really practicing chastity. - It is the internal (psychological, energic) chastity that matters more than the physical details.
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Perhaps one could consider the human suit which we wear in the first place to be an external device, and for that matter the very inadequate (in regards to magickal perception) processing unit commonly known as a brain to also be an external device as far as the "true self/will" is concerned.
We do not feel it is important whether or not one uses a guide book, online resources, encouragement from friends and/or aquaintances, motivation gained by belief in a moral system or agenda, visualization, psychology, ritual or set of rituals or any material basis for support in the endeavor to commit to chastity.
It is neither required, nor justifiable to assume that the etheric and physical rewards of retraint from temporal sexual stimulation cannot be attained through many methods using any number of spiritual, mental, or material resources.
Any time we let the ego convince us that there is a specific way to accomplish any undertaking, we have already closed the door on all other possible routes to success.
We realize that because of the nature of groups such as T..O..T.. that there is a probable tendency to formulate dogma, however this must eventually become unacceptable to those persons who wish to have wisdom and power beyond the potential of cognitively persuaded dimensionally limited beings such as are the species of earth.
Nothing is true, everything is possible.
Namaste -
@MEridianshos said
"Perhaps one could consider the human suit which we wear in the first place to be an external device, and for that matter the very inadequate (in regards to magical perception) processing unit commonly known as a brain to also be an external device as far as the "true self/will" is concerned."
It's also the particular mechanism that needs to handle this particular practice / discipline.
"It is neither required, nor justifiable to assume that the etheric and physical rewards of retraint from temporal sexual stimulation cannot be attained through many methods using any number of spiritual, mental, or material resources."
I think that's a fair statement. That is, the practice of chastity is hardly a universally useful technique. - But if that's the particular practice undertaken, then physical restraints or barriers aren't going to actually accomplish its purpose because it's mostly not about whether a physical thing happens.
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Excellent responses sir, and very nice to have intelligent people to discuss the mysteries of existence with. i am now curious what we may gain from Mr. Eshelman's suggested alternative to physical restraint, and intend to begin immediately the practice of chastity enforced only by my own psychological intent.
i look forward to the further association with members of this system of thought, and the many perceptual realizations that i am hopeful may be inherent to the practice of its diciplines.
On behalf of our coven so do i will. Let then my journey to thelema begin; so mote it be! -
I'm 20 years old and have only had sex twice. I'm not worried about it from a standpoint of conforming to social expectations, but I have noticed lately that I feel like less of a body and more of a spirit the majority of the time. This has its boons but overall it frightens me deeply. I have become so abstracted from the physical sphere that it seems like I'm lightyears away from being able to effect change in my environment. I don't know. I think I might be slightly neurotic as a result of this forced abstinence. But I've never really had an option. I've never been involved with anyone,...Its sort of depressing.
Do you think I could suffer permanent damage? I'm really quite sincerely worried about this.
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When one becomes a monk one practices celibate or brahmacharya. Isn't THAT historicaly an early stage, Jim?
If you want to master sexual energy (and that is an awesome force to manipulate
) you have to be a brahmachari. See Mantak Chia books, and the asana named siddhasana, also burmese position for the begginer.
And of course how can you have all that fun with succubus without being a brahmachari?
Energy rising made fun! Being a brahmachari is awesome but not easy technicaly. Moderate food intake should be seen to and siddhasana practiced every day... see Hatha yoga pradipika.
By the way any sexual energy practice should begin after a month of abstinence acording to Mantak Chia. So understand it is the lust you manipulate and everything that brings it down for too many days is a drawback and ejacultation puts you out for a whole month! Educate yourself! -
im thinking since life circumstances (my Pantacle if you will) have more or less forced me into solitude, im going to stop masturbating soon . do you think this will produce an overcharge of energy which i will be able to use as i will? do you think it will have any positive effects?
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@rein said
"...im going to stop masturbating soon . do you think this will produce an overcharge of energy which i will be able to use as i will? do you think it will have any positive effects?"
If you become fully celibate mindfully, having (rather than suppressing) the feelings involved, and learning to let them pass through you, then it can be a great gain. One or two periods of daily meditation help redistribute this energy fruitfully.
If you are subject to a lot of stress and pressure and don't give yourself the chance to relax and redistribute, then you're likely to become a good example of bad adolesence swinging out of control.
Able to use it as you will? Accumulation of energy doesn't necessarily mean that you know how to direct it. Those are different skills. Do you already know how to direct available energy according to will?
You may discover that you need a periodic discharge. I would recommend, therefore (consistent with your above stated approach), that you schedule this on a fixed rhythm - once a week, every other week, once a month, whatever you find is necessary - on a particular point of the calendar or lunar cycle, and that you regard it as a firm date with a religious worship.
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"I would recommend, therefore (consistent with your above stated approach), that you schedule this on a fixed rhythm - once a week, every other week, once a month, whatever you find is necessary - on a particular point of the calendar or lunar cycle, and that you regard it as a firm date with a religious worship."
Is this approach something that could benefit a couple as well? What I'm referring to is the systematic scheduling of sex coupled with a religious worship on a calculated point of the calendar or lunar cycle.
Obviously this takes away from the spontaneity factor, which many women particularly enjoy.
There is so much to organize and keep track of! (I don't mean sexually, I'm talking TOT-wise) Should we be taking our fill of love as we will or fumbling around for our "sex journals" in order to see if it's the appropriate time for coitus???
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But he was actually contemplating the opposite: not participating in that kind of activity (at least partly because of, for the moment, lack of opportunities).