how to get the astral body and astral travel
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@Halcyon said
"Is this usually the case in the standard A.'.A.'. system? I.e. that ones mentor will be able to provide direct one-on-one assistance in such cases where a student is having trouble (or at least initial hurdles) with this technique? I had thought this relationship was usually a matter of written advice and reference."
Simple answer: Yes, it's the standard of the system as initially designed.
More complete answer: Different relationships are different since they consist of different people. Therefore, we find some variability in how each teacher-pupil relationship evolves.
But this is the whole idea of the method in the first place: That each aspirant has someone to work with them directly. Much of the system is only delivered person-to-person.
It's particularly important that the Probationer (0=0) is mostly left alone unless they ask specific questions or request particular assistance. A significant part of the Probationer task is to start finding their own way through the mass of what's present. The assigned work beginning in 1=10 (and especially in 2=9) becomes much more directed and specific, so the real foundation of discovering one's own strengths and weaknesses, what does and doesn't seem to work, where one has resistances, the part of the curriculum to which one is especially drawn, etc., ideally should be done at Probationer.
For the proper balance, I might suggest you read in this regard Liber E, Cap. VII, pars. 6-7.
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"But this is the whole idea of the method in the first place: That each aspirant has someone to work with them directly. Much of the system is only delivered person-to-person."
Guidance from another's personal experience is a useful thing, but having someone who is able to actual offer tricks and specific refinements to the methodology sounds like a very useful thing indeed.
"For the proper balance, I might suggest you read in this regard Liber E, Cap. VII, pars. 6-7."
This has always been one of the most encouraging of Crowley's stances I've come across.
Thanks for the discussion.
From Liber E:
- Let him further remember that he must in no wise rely upon, or believe in, that master. He must rely entirely upon himself, and credit nothing whatever but that which lies within his own knowledge and experience.
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Do what thou wilt shall be the whole of the Law:
@Jim Eshelman said
"But this is the whole idea of the method in the first place: That each aspirant has someone to work with them directly. Much of the system is only delivered person-to-person. "
Why do you taunt us? The A.'.A.'. will not respond to me, nor to many others on this forum. We are to have nothing but printed word and emoticons...
Love is the law, love under will.
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@jlpugh said
"Why do you taunt us? The A.'.A.'. will not respond to me, nor to many others on this forum."
Out of all of the occultists & thelemites I know, NOT ONE of them has ever heard back from any Cancellarius of any A.'.A.'. organization.
L.Lazuli
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@Lapis said
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@jlpugh said
"Why do you taunt us? The A.'.A.'. will not respond to me, nor to many others on this forum."Out of all of the occultists & thelemites I know, NOT ONE of them has ever heard back from any Cancellarius of any A.'.A.'. organization.
L.Lazuli"
So how do you think all the people who joined any A.'.A.'. actually got into their organizations then?
I'm honestly curious.. -
@FraterLucius said
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@Lapis said
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@jlpugh said
"Why do you taunt us? The A.'.A.'. will not respond to me, nor to many others on this forum."Out of all of the occultists & thelemites I know, NOT ONE of them has ever heard back from any Cancellarius of any A.'.A.'. organization.
L.Lazuli"
So how do you think all the people who joined any A.'.A.'. actually got into their organizations then?
I'm honestly curious.."I'm not saying they don't - I just don't know anyone who has. I haven't. My husband hasn't - & he's been trough with the Student Curriculum for years. There are several here on this very forum who do not get a response. I know of at least 15 others who have written & never heard back.
L.Lazuli
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@Lapis said
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@FraterLucius said
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@Lapis said
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@jlpugh said
"Why do you taunt us? The A.'.A.'. will not respond to me, nor to many others on this forum."Out of all of the occultists & thelemites I know, NOT ONE of them has ever heard back from any Cancellarius of any A.'.A.'. organization.
L.Lazuli"
So how do you think all the people who joined any A.'.A.'. actually got into their organizations then?
I'm honestly curious.."I'm not saying they don't - I just don't know anyone who has. I haven't. My husband hasn't - & he's been trough with the Student Curriculum for years. There are several here on this very forum who do not get a response. I know of at least 15 others who have written & never heard back.
L.Lazuli"
As I am new to the forum and don't really know the inner workings of the Temple Of Thelema in particular, has any reason been provided as to why applicants get no reply?
I think we are starting to drift OT here though... -
@FraterLucius said
"As I am new to the forum and don't really know the inner workings of the Temple Of Thelema in particular, has any reason been provided as to why applicants get no reply?
I think we are starting to drift OT here though..."knuggity, if I may use his acount, has inquired several times as to why he has gotten no response - & there has been no answer given - not in the treads he inquired in anyway...I'm not saying it doesn't happen - it just amazes me the amount of aspirants I come across that never get a response. My husband & myself have written SEVERAL times to no avail.
L.Lazuli
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location may be an issue... but i don't know for sure.
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I think the key here is patience. I too have awaited a response - but I don't see the point in getting in too much of a hurry. You have undoubtedy gone through innumerable lifetimes to get to where you are at this point, & when your contact arrives it will be in the exact time your Angel has planned for you.
616
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Do what thou wilt shall be the whole of the Law:
I guess beating the ground to startle the snakes doesn't work when the snakes are adepts... you just end up looking like an a-hole. And in case anyone is wondering, writing the Cancellarius every day for months doesn't work either.
There must be something else...
We're way off topic though... another thread...
Love is the law, love under will.
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IMHO possibly its due to the A.'.A.'. being tied into the O.T.O. these days, mainly, not in all circumstances of course.
Meaning that more often than not if you don't initially join and go past minerval in the O.T.O. then you wont get the option to be accepted into the A.'.A.'. as quite a few O.T.O. members by and large are in the A.'.A.'.
Personally i think that is totally inappropriate and defeats the purpose of the systems membership.
Some people dont want to have to belong to a social club.
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93 All,
Would like to clarify, this A.'.A.'. is not tied to the O.T.O. although some individuals may choose to be members of both if they wish. There is no proper affiliation. Also, Last time I received a response from Jim regarding why there was no reply from the Cancellarius, she was indisposed. I would recommend reading the topics posted in the Initiation sub-forum.-Kenneth Sheppard
93, 93/93 -
@ptoner said
"IMHO possibly its due to the A.'.A.'. being tied into the O.T.O. these days, mainly, not in all circumstances of course."
Thats simply incorrect. Only one lineage is related to the OTO and advertised on their page but there are many lineages. Either way the OTO and AA are separate.
"Meaning that more often than not if you don't initially join and go past minerval in the O.T.O. then you wont get the option to be accepted into the A.'.A.'. as quite a few O.T.O. members by and large are in the A.'.A.'."
Wrong.
"Personally i think that is totally inappropriate and defeats the purpose of the systems membership.
Some people dont want to have to belong to a social club."
Unfortunately its your own misconceptions which are self-defeating.
IAO131
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93 king sol om on.
I found, in my earlier practices for projection/ Out of body experiences (Not just visualization astrally), but actually leaving the body, The Liber's mentioned are acceptable and recommended.
What I did, was simply lay down (In the afternoon), for some reason afternoon was a more conducive time for me), and simply do pranayama (Rhythmic Breathing), as well as the middle pillar exercise.
I had been seeking to achieve Astral Projection, and started doing all of this from about age 11. First book I read was "How to Astral Travel", and second was "Creative visualization", by Shakti Gawain...(I know, sounds cheesy:-),
(As well as clouds without water, and a few other works by Crowley at that time that I could understand:-)By simply doing the Pranayama, and Middle Pillar, eventually it happened, and still continues to this day. It may not work for you, but it wouldn't hurt.
I have gotten to the point to where I can leave (Astrally), and depending on how sparse, or dense my Astral body is at the time, knock things over, play with people, and then when I do arrive back, can physically check and validate what objects I have knocked over, etc.
It is a great experience, and takes time. Be patient, and definitely record ALL of your Dreams, experiences, etc. In your Journal/ Magickal diary (For retrospect reasons.)
Best wishes!
93 93/93.'.
James Cruz
Kohen ha Gadhel
Albuquerque, NM -
93 All.
The A.'.A.'. that is in the back of the books, i.e.- (Liber ABA), etc. Is not part of the whole 'Aspirants to Light, Cor Lucus, C.O.T. / T.O.T.')
We are speaking of two different lineages here.
If one is serious, go with the T.O.T. (Eventually)...Seek the others first!
(RR et AC)Also, there is the traditionalism route of simply asking someone (At least a Neophyte), to Mentor you. (I have been tending flock for many years-)
Then you get the person (Mentor) to work with you every step of the way, through correspondence, personally, and or both.
These are several suggestions to take into consideration.
Hope this helps.
93 93/93
James Cruz
Frater Kohen ha-Gadhel
Albuquerque, NM -
So, does anyone have any thoughts about waldo vieira's Projectiology, or Ingo Swann, sylvan muldoon's literature, Oliver fox's Astral Projection, or John Magnus? I really want to learn this art of astral projection, but Ophiels lit is a little too simplistic, and I really dont (and probably wont) have any meditative ability.....So is there any chance these authors could give me the instruction I need?
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@Law said
"So, does anyone have any thoughts about waldo vieira's Projectiology, or Ingo Swann, sylvan muldoon's literature, Oliver fox's Astral Projection, or John Magnus? I really want to learn this art of astral projection, but Ophiels lit is a little too simplistic, and I really dont (and probably wont) have any meditative ability.....So is there any chance these authors could give me the instruction I need?"
Yeah, Ophiel never made it for me either. The single best treatise on the subject I've found with the least amount of jargon is Dr. Don DeGracia's book "DO_OBE." He has his own theories in the book, but what's important is the second part on the practice (viz. the 'trance method'). If you do what he says while at the same time reading the books of Fox, Muldoon, Monroe, et.al., you will most likely achieve success in a month or so (mileage may vary; + or -).
www.fileden.com/getfile.php?file_path=http://www.fileden.com/files/2009/3/10/2358269/do_obe.pdf
PS
Muldoon's book is like a textbook on the subject, but the exercise he gives which involves willfully slowing down your own heart is probably not advisable. In fact I would not recommend his method at all. But I would still read his book for the info if you can find a copy. If you need help getting a hold of any of these books please feel free to PM me. -
Maybe Im just not meant for this stuff, but I still dont get what the greater part of Liber 0 has to do with astral projection. I have read it over many times, and I DO REALIZE that the practice is mentioned in Liber O, but really it seems that its more of an after thought. It says something to the effect of "let the student imagine conciousness is being transfered......" and how exactly do I do this? it goes on to say "this may be the difficult part" and all the while I think, yeah, difficult because you didnt really explain anything. I am really surprised that it was kind of marginalized the way that it was. It just reads imagine a copy of you sitting next to yourself and then imagine it high above the earth, and you will see stuff. Great. Thats helpful. Im really starting to grow skeptical of this whole process, I really am. I shouldnt have any more trouble than any one else with this stuff, yet I consistantly do. Am I corect in thinking that I need meditation success before I can do this? If that is the case I guess it aint happening.........
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@Law said
"Maybe Im just not meant for this stuff, but I still dont get what the greater part of Liber 0 has to do with astral projection."
Among other things: The "attitude" section should be obvious; the Qabalistic section gives you the language of subconsciousness that you'll be using and encountering in the visions; the Pentagram and Hexagram rituals let you control where you're going and exercise dominion over circumstances.
But that's not all that Liber O is about. It's about the fundamentals of magick. The various sections are also the details needed to create and perform rituals.
"I am really surprised that it was kind of marginalized the way that it was."
Ads I've mentioned many times, this book wasn't intended to stand alone. It was intended to be used in conjunction with direct, in-person training. These are the Cliff Notes.
"Am I corect in thinking that I need meditation success before I can do this? If that is the case I guess it aint happening........."
The capacities you need for "astral travel" so-called are the same skills you need for extended, successful meditation.