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The making of a probationers robe.

Scheduled Pinned Locked Moved Initiation
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  • D Offline
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    daredevil92103
    replied to daredevil92103 on last edited by
    #6

    yes, that is all the pictures i have seen, too.
    but there is a blind that i am aware of.
    i may be wrong.
    i cant really say anything more about it.

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    frateruranus
    replied to daredevil92103 on last edited by
    #7

    Some lineages use a black robe with the same symbols nowadays to differentiate the 0=0 robe from the 5=6 robe.

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    Jim Eshelman
    replied to daredevil92103 on last edited by
    #8

    @frateruranus said

    "Some lineages use a black robe with the same symbols nowadays to differentiate the 0=0 robe from the 5=6 robe."

    I see. Nope, that's wrong. (Not a blind, just wrong.) It's one of the more important symbols of the 0=0 robe that it is exactly the same as the robe of Adeptus Minor Without.

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    daredevil92103
    replied to daredevil92103 on last edited by
    #9

    that isnt the blind. i cant really say anything else about it.
    once again i put my foot in my mouth.
    😀
    the main thing i'm looking for is a good template to make a probationer's robe from. i'm not much of a seamstress.
    the blind isnt what i was was trying to find out, or even really say anything about, except to say that i am aware of it and that isnt an issue in the making of the robe.

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    Jim Eshelman
    replied to daredevil92103 on last edited by
    #10

    Get 60" fabric twice your shoulder-to-floor height and a bit more. Fold it in the middle so that it is 60" across and your S2F height down.

    Lay down on it, with your shoulders at the shoulder edge (the fold). Stretch out your arms to the sides. Have someone mark a point diagonally in about 5" (estimate) from each armpit.

    Get up. Take a pencil. Draw a line from each dot to the nearest lower corner. Then, from each dot, draw a swooping descent off to the left or right edge to make a stylized, flowing sleeve picture.

    You should have something that looks like a stylized T with flairing ends.

    Snip snip. Snip snip. Sew where you snipped. You now have an inside-out robe except for the collar.

    Take a pencil and draw a broad scoop - a shallow semi-circle - across the center of the top, from about 2" in from your shoulders on each side. Make it deep enough to very generously let your head through, and shallow enough that it isn't going to slip one way or the other. (Judgment call.)

    Turn it inside-out. You have the not-quite-finished robe.

    Hem the bottom and cuffs to size. Use part of what you trimmed off to make a facing for the collar.

    Press.

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    daredevil92103
    replied to daredevil92103 on last edited by
    #11

    thatnk you Jim.
    once again just what i needed. sounds easy enough. i was really worried about this. lol. figured i wold end up with three sleeves and looking like it belonged on something out of a Lovecraft book.
    😀

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    luxinhominefactum
    replied to daredevil92103 on last edited by
    #12

    Do what thou wilt shall be the whole of the Law

    heh... i didn't know you all still used the old-school robes, jim, that's actually pretty cool. my own lineage has altered them somewhat.

    Love is the law, love under will

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    Jim Eshelman
    replied to daredevil92103 on last edited by
    #13

    @luxinhominefactum said

    "heh... i didn't know you all still used the old-school robes, jim, that's actually pretty cool. my own lineage has altered them somewhat."

    Our goal has always been to replicate and continue the A.'.A.'. system precisely as its founders/originators laid it out. The system works as designed and there's been no need to alter it.

    Of course, I hardly think that a robe design is all that essential a matter. They do, however, encode some worthwhile symbols highly specific to the stage.

    BTW, we don't use the designs depicted in the Halloween Special Supplment of the modern Equinox. It just happens that they had the Probationer robe right. The robe designs we use come from a page Regardie typed up at Crowley's request when working for him, and they're published in anj appendix of The Mystical & Magical System of the A.'.A.'..

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    luxinhominefactum
    replied to daredevil92103 on last edited by
    #14

    Do what thou wilt shall be the whole of the Law

    i forget when our lineage changed them. i think motta did it back in the sixties e.v., but i can't swear to that. before my time, certainly.

    Love is the law, love under will

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    frateruranus
    replied to daredevil92103 on last edited by
    #15

    Motta changed them in the 60s when he started getting more students following the Equinox in Brazil and the founding of the Society of the New Aeon with Euclydes Lacerda de Almeida. The robes that are currently used though are not necessarily Motta's robes. The hoods were eliminated in favour of the Nemyss's as Frater Sphinx relates in Gold Coins of the Master in his comment on the verse of Liber AL regarding the woman's veil. The rest though is Motta's system of robes. I think the Motta/Sphinx/939 designs are quite elegant, especially when made with a nice satin with balanced well thought out uses of the colours.

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    xkip93
    replied to daredevil92103 on last edited by
    #16

    Do as thou wilt shall be the whole of the Law.

    Greetings.

    Thanks for sharing the info. on the robe. Now that the construction of the robe is clear, what about the symbols?

    What are they made of and how?

    Love is the law, love under will

    -Xkip

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    Seth Rah
    replied to daredevil92103 on last edited by augur
    #17

    Some Probationer robe pictures:

    [collegium dot org dot br/eventos/admissao-em-juiz-de-fora-2008]
    [collegium dot org dotbr/eventos/dies-natalis-solis-invictus-2007]
    [collegium dot org dot br/eventos/comemoracao-do-equinocio-de-primavera-2007]

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    frateruranus
    replied to daredevil92103 on last edited by
    #18

    Crowley would have Probationers working together such as the Rites of Eleusis & reading his working diaries like the Bartzabel working etc. Practicality & the Oaths of the A.'.A.'. makeit impossible for Probationers to not know each other in communities where an A.'.A.'. teacher is present & taking local students. Under the guidance of a higher initiate, say a Zelator or so, the "damage" can be minimalized. Essentially though, the idea is you don't share your personal work with others outside of your superior or when helping an inferior (in the sense of someone under you) by sharing your experiences. Lectures etc. are also useful for an A.'.A.'. instructor who works in private. Also, what of an OTO lodge (or similar org) that has a few members of the Probationer Grade... does that mean they are forbidden to work the Mass or Lodge group rituals or even the meet with each other in social gatherings, workings etc.? The idea is sound, but to execute it literally is impossible.

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    Tony DeLuce
    replied to daredevil92103 on last edited by
    #19

    @frateruranus said

    "Crowley would have Probationers working together such as the Rites of Eleusis & reading his working diaries like the Bartzabel working etc. Practicality & the Oaths of the A.'.A.'. makeit impossible for Probationers to not know each other in communities where an A.'.A.'. teacher is present & taking local students. Under the guidance of a higher initiate, say a Zelator or so, the "damage" can be minimalized. Essentially though, the idea is you don't share your personal work with others outside of your superior or when helping an inferior (in the sense of someone under you) by sharing your experiences. Lectures etc. are also useful for an A.'.A.'. instructor who works in private. Also, what of an OTO lodge (or similar org) that has a few members of the Probationer Grade... does that mean they are forbidden to work the Mass or Lodge group rituals or even the meet with each other in social gatherings, workings etc.? The idea is sound, but to execute it literally is impossible."

    I believe the point was/is that individual members not work together regarding their specific A.'.A.'. curriculum. They can know each other and attend various functions together but should not be collaborating together regarding their individual A.'. A.'. Work. This would not preclude working together on the Rites of Eleusis or even living together for that matter...

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    Jim Eshelman
    replied to daredevil92103 on last edited by
    #20

    The principle is that members of the same grade to not interact as such with each other.

    That is, they don't get together and have, say, a "Probationer's meeting."

    But it's quite common for several to know each other, attend the same classes, show up at the same events, do magick together, talk about any number of things together, etc. etc. etc. - but they aren't meeting as A.'.A.'. members per se.

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    frateruranus
    replied to daredevil92103 on last edited by
    #21

    RifRaf, you are just re-iterating my point in different words.

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    frateruranus
    replied to daredevil92103 on last edited by
    #22

    That is what I meant Rifraf, I was unclear in my original post

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    Seth Rah
    replied to daredevil92103 on last edited by
    #23

    Yes, some of them are A.'.A.'. Probationers, and no, they are not working together in that system. That is a reunion of the Collegium ad Lux et Nox, an external work of A.'.A.'. that we develop in Brazil.

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    Frater SOL
    replied to daredevil92103 on last edited by
    #24

    @Jim Eshelman said

    "
    @frateruranus said
    "Some lineages use a black robe with the same symbols nowadays to differentiate the 0=0 robe from the 5=6 robe."

    I see. Nope, that's wrong. (Not a blind, just wrong.) It's one of the more important symbols of the 0=0 robe that it is exactly the same as the robe of Adeptus Minor Without."

    In Ch. 23 of Magick Without Tears we are told that for a 0=0, "plain black is correct; and the Unicursal Hexagram might be embroidered upon the breast". Is this because the 0=0 robe doubled for 5=6, & possibly the original 0=0 robe design was made exclusive to 5=6 toward the end of 666's career on account of the micro/macro uniting aspects of the design?

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    Jim Eshelman
    replied to daredevil92103 on last edited by
    #25

    @Arsihsis said

    "In Ch. 23 of Magick Without Tears we are told that for a 0=0, "plain black is correct; and the Unicursal Hexagram might be embroidered upon the breast". Is this because the 0=0 robe doubled for 5=6, & possibly the original 0=0 robe design was made exclusive to 5=6 toward the end of 666's career on account of the micro/macro uniting aspects of the design?"

    That passage has always been strange to me, and contradicts all other information available from any other source. It always seemed to me, from the syntax of the passage, that Crowley was admitting he couldn't remember and was making up something on the spot that might be useful to the person to whom he was writing.

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