Tetragrammaton and Thelemic Cosmology
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@fraterlvf said
"Does this mean that a Thelemite considers those divine names to live within the body of Nuit?"
I don't think I've ever heard anyone put it that way before.
Personally, I wouldn't think of it so spatially.
I do, however, regard Nuit as encompassing and including all things.
"Lesser gods as the helpful bacteria in Nuit's intestines" is a humorous thought, though.
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@Jim Eshelman said
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@fraterlvf said
"Does this mean that a Thelemite considers those divine names to live within the body of Nuit?"I don't think I've ever heard anyone put it that way before.
Personally, I wouldn't think of it so spatially.
I do, however, regard Nuit as encompassing and including all things.
"I think pantheism would be a way for me to explain my choice of words here. Does that apply?
All gods are part of Nuit, just as we are?
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Actually, let me add a little more to this to give some context.
Coming from a Christian background, I would have considered the Tetragrammaton to represent the whole of creation. Perhaps that is incorrect, but it is the way I used to view it. Qabalistic workings made a lot of sense to me with that model, as I was working with 'pieces of God'.
Now considering myself a Thelemite, I am trying to fit all of this in with the Thelemic model. Am I stretching things to now equate the Tetragrammaton with Nuit?
Thank you for your patience
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@fraterlvf said
"Am I stretching things to now equate the Tetragrammaton with Nuit?"
I think so.
Remember also that YHVH shows up at many levels. There is YHVH who is the seed idea from which flow the Four Worlds etc. etc. Then there is the below-the-Abyss Tetragrammaton which was the oldest Divine Name of Tiphereth (as a stand-in the for the Unpronouncable or Unknown Name of each person), or Tetragrammaton as the Gnostic Demi-Urge who is kind of a Chesed ego beast, and so on.
The "local tribal god of the Hebrews" YHVH was probably most like Ra-Hoor-Khuit, who has a "secret fourfold name" and makes a call for blood - YHVH being, above all things, a god who devoured and claimed rights to blood.
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OK. This is starting to make some sense to me.
Let me step away from YHVH for a moment, and ask about the various forces that we assign to the Sephiroth. Let us say I was going to perform an operation regarding Netzach, and I was going to call upon the God Name, then the Archangel, etc, etc. How do I relate all of that to Nuit?
I suppose my hang up is one of trying to reconcile what feels like two distinct systems. Intuition tells me that these forces are pieces of existence, just as I am, and that I should consider any ceremony performed with joy as an act of tribute to Her... but uncertainty won't stop biting at my ankle.
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@fraterlvf said
"Let me step away from YHVH for a moment, and ask about the various forces that we assign to the Sephiroth. Let us say I was going to perform an operation regarding Netzach, and I was going to call upon the God Name, then the Archangel, etc, etc. How do I relate all of that to Nuit? "
Well, first, you don't have to at all. But there are a couple of conceptual ways to do it.
One is to recognize that there is a Great Big Pool of Nothing from which all somethings some as differentiations. Etc. etc. you can take it from there.
Another approach is to take the position that anytime you encounter any Name of God, don't assume it's any particular god at all other than the particular god known intimately by you, WhatEverYouCallIt.
"I suppose my hang up is one of trying to reconcile what feels like two distinct systems. Intuition tells me that these forces are pieces of existence, just as I am, and that I should consider any ceremony performed with joy as an act of tribute to Her... but uncertainty won't stop biting at my ankle."
I suspect, from what you're saying, that you still feel a little distant from Thelema. Therefore, anything real and intimate to you might feel to you a bit distant from Thelema. That's OK - it all sorts itself out with time and persistence.
One step I think important in ceremonial magick is an initial invocation of undifferentiated Divinity - before you particularize it into a specific form. Think of it as getting electricity turned on in your house before you worry about what specific appliances you're going to run off of it. That stage can be well spent in adoration of Nuit.
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@Jim Eshelman said
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I suspect, from what you're saying, that you still feel a little distant from Thelema. Therefore, anything real and intimate to you might feel to you a bit distant from Thelema. That's OK - it all sorts itself out with time and persistence.One step I think important in ceremonial magick is an initial invocation of undifferentiated Divinity - before you particularize it into a specific form. Think of it as getting electricity turned on in your house before you worry about what specific appliances you're going to run off of it. That stage can be well spent in adoration of Nuit."
Jim - you hit it. I am in the beginning phases of working with Thelema, and am beginning to try and tune myself to it. Over the past two years, I have examined a number of 'systems', but Thelema kept whispering to me no matter how hard I tried to go elsewhere. I have decided that this is where I need to be.
I have spent my spare time each day over the past two weeks contemplating the various aspects, which is what brought me to these questions. The idea of formalizing those sessions into an invocation is very inspiring. I will work something out.
Thank you for your time!
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@fraterlvf said
"I am in the beginning phases of working with Thelema, and am beginning to try and tune myself to it. Over the past two years, I have examined a number of 'systems', but Thelema kept whispering to me no matter how hard I tried to go elsewhere. I have decided that this is where I need to be."
Hi Fraterlvf. That is how it was for me as well. Having invested in several systems along the way, it was confusing for me at first to know what to do with my past experiences with God (which were significant to me). I mean, some systems suggest that all others are invalid and best forgotten but one of the things I love about Thelema is that it differs on this.
I've heard Jim say this before:
[Another approach is to take the position that anytime you encounter any Name of God, don't assume it's any particular god at all other than the particular god known intimately by you, WhatEverYouCallIt.]What a difference that has made. Instead of seeing it as trying to learn a completely new system (again), I am simply going deeper.
It sounds like this path is resonating with you as well. Good.
Donna
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Donna - regarding Jim's statement, I couldn't agree more. It really has helped me begin to reconcile different pieces of my previous experience with my growing understanding of Thelema. I'm glad to hear that I'm not the only one that has stumbled along in the beginning.
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A While ago I realised you could create a cool graphical representation by arranging the letters of Tetragrammaton to follow the placements of the characters on the Stele of Revealing.
Hadit would be Yod with a big Heh enclosing the whole lot for Nuit with Vau as Ra-Hoor-Khuit and the Heh-final would be Ank-af-na-Khonsu.
Cool eh?