Mother of Abominations
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@Jim Eshelman said
"That it is called “wine” refers not only to its intoxicating properties, but to the fact that it will have fermented (§7), and aged slowly – no bottle to be opened before its time."
@he atlas itch said
"Wine requires time to ferment properly to become mellow and enjoyed by the saints."
What is the import of time in regards to the Life of the Adept? reincarnation?
What does it mean that the Life of the Adept has to be aged in the Cup of Babalon?
The wine is the Life of the Adept, & it has to be devoted to Babalon who is the All? Where does time come in?
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Not necessarily reincarnation but more that transformation can only occur through time. Crowley maps Saturn onto Binah. The planet represents, among other things, time, harvest and karma. The Great Work is that of transforming lead, the metal of Saturn, into gold. Compare that with the idea of wine maturing.
Babalon is not the All, but *the Gate *to the All. She operates like a strange attractor veiled behind various stages of existence. Each person has a different understanding of Her that is conditioned by their level of attainment/being. The only way to know Her is to attain 7=4. The built-up momentum would then carry the Adept, slowly but surely, across the Abyss toward the City of the Pyramids. Or the Adept could resist this momentum, the gradual dissolution into the All, and become a Black Brother.
Time is related to the Buddhist concept of Mindstream and karma. Whatever one puts into this Mindstream grows and develop into something (either in this life or a later reincarnation). You can see this unconscious logic operating, for example, when you see some striking object during the day that later reappears in a dream and takes on a life of its own. Compare this with Emma Crowley hurting young Aleister by calling him a "Beast" that subsequently develops over his entire life into something else.
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@Red Eagle of Death said
"What does it mean that the Life of the Adept has to be aged in the Cup of Babalon? "
By "life" or "blood" is meant not so much the duration of the life (life-span), but hte life essence - one might say, the whole of the adept's consciousness - for example, that all which he or she experiences themselves as being uniquely being is poured into the infinite rather than horded in the individual.
This can be expressed at several levels, which are all layered expressions of the same thing. Perhaps the simplest example of "pouring all of one's blood into Her cup" is just the recognition that one's life exists for, and is given over to, something larger than oneself. There are also the stages of the actual "spilling" - the (often many years) of progressively surrendering ones separateness.
The mystery of time as it pertains to fermenting the wine is still... a mystery... in the sense that it is a little diffiicult to articulate or pin down. So, without pinning it down exactly, I'll just say that, over a period of some years of this process, it becomes deeper and richer. It's like enduring love... a mature, deep-well love that has gotten through the initial projection phase and is becoming deeper and richer over time. The analogy to wine is a match in many points.
"The wine is the Life of the Adept, & it has to be devoted to Babalon who is the All? Where does time come in?"
The Adept is still a human being who exists in time. But, see above.
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@he atlas itch said
"The Great Work is that of transforming lead, the metal of Saturn, into gold."
This seems backwards. Wouldn't that imply that the goal is to turn away from Binah (therefore becoming a black brother) & return to Tiphareth, the Sephirah associated with gold? Your analogy would make more sense if you were referring to a transition from Tau to Tiphareth.
@he atlas itch said
"Babalon is not the All, but *the Gate *to the All."
Well that makes even less sense to me. What does it meant to pour your life into the gate of the all?
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@Red Eagle of Death said
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@he atlas itch said
"The Great Work is that of transforming lead, the metal of Saturn, into gold."This seems backwards. Wouldn't that imply that the goal is to turn away from Binah (therefore becoming a black brother) & return to Tiphareth, the Sephirah associated with gold? Your analogy would make more sense if you were referring to a transition from Tau to Tiphareth."
Good thinking on your part, but the wrong use of the symbols. (Alchemical language usually is applied to stages below Binah, and often below Tiphereth.) - When you think of the solar system as understood in Medieval times and earlier, Saturn was the outermost planet known. "Turning led to gold" - going from Saturn to the Sun - was going from the outermost (most external) to the inmost center.
Now, having reached this - having "found one's Stone" - there were then subsequent alchemical miracles to perform, and these took one back out into the world. And I entirely agree with you that, eventually, one needs to appreciate lead itself! But it seems to me that one is usually turning to quite different symbols and languages by then. - To one who is not yet an Adept, there isn't an issue of "turning away from & return to Tiphereth," because one isn't yet to Tiphereth (and Binah is still well beyond it). The alchemical alchemical language is primarily aimed at the uninitiate passing through stages to become an Adept.
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@he atlas itch said
"Babalon is not the All, but *the Gate *to the All."Well that makes even less sense to me. What does it meant to pour your life into the gate of the all?"
Yeah, despite one etymological attempt to represent it that way, I don't think that's terribly useful language.
Or, rather, it's most useful with older thinking. If by "All" you mean "The One," then, yeah, there are usages of Binah-Daleth in particular that lead there. But if you think of "All" as meaning "None," then Babalon is already, for all intents and purposes, the same symbol as Nuit.
"Gate" is an interesting word, though, especially because it is a code word (in several variations) for Malkuth, the Daughter, and then a literal meaningt of Daleth. There is useful stuff that can be done with that.
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@Jim Eshelman said
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@Red Eagle of Death said
"What does it mean that the Life of the Adept has to be aged in the Cup of Babalon? "By "life" or "blood" is meant not so much the duration of the life (life-span), but hte life essence - one might say, the whole of the adept's consciousness - for example, that all which he or she experiences themselves as being uniquely being is poured into the infinite rather than horded in the individual.
This can be expressed at several levels, which are all layered expressions of the same thing. Perhaps the simplest example of "pouring all of one's blood into Her cup" is just the recognition that one's life exists for, and is given over to, something larger than oneself. There are also the stages of the actual "spilling" - the (often many years) of progressively surrendering ones separateness.
The mystery of time as it pertains to fermenting the wine is still... a mystery... in the sense that it is a little diffiicult to articulate or pin down. So, without pinning it down exactly, I'll just say that, over a period of some years of this process, it becomes deeper and richer. It's like enduring love... a mature, deep-well love that has gotten through the initial projection phase and is becoming deeper and richer over time. The analogy to wine is a match in many points.
"The wine is the Life of the Adept, & it has to be devoted to Babalon who is the All? Where does time come in?"
The Adept is still a human being who exists in time. But, see above."
Thank you Jim. This gives me plently to think about.
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@Red Eagle of Death said
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@Jim Eshelman said
"That it is called “wine” refers not only to its intoxicating properties, but to the fact that it will have fermented (§7), and aged slowly – no bottle to be opened before its time."@he atlas itch said
"Wine requires time to ferment properly to become mellow and enjoyed by the saints."
What is the import of time in regards to the Life of the Adept? reincarnation?
What does it mean that the Life of the Adept has to be aged in the Cup of Babalon?
The wine is the Life of the Adept, & it has to be devoted to Babalon who is the All? Where does time come in?"
Saturn is time (Chronos, Χρόνος), & fermentation is the Alchemical process associated with Venus, an aspect of Babalon.
729
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@Jim Eshelman said
""Gate" is an interesting word, though, especially because it is a code word (in several variations) for Malkuth, the Daughter, and then a literal meaningt of Daleth. There is useful stuff that can be done with that."
I though Daleth translated to door. I considered Cheth in the same way (as LOE is associated with Atu VII), which would make sense of the Gate of God analogy (Cheth=fence=gate), but that comparison places Babalon below or within the Abyss.
@Arsihsis said
"Saturn is time (Chronos, Χρόνος), & fermentation is the Alchemical process associated with Venus, an aspect of Babalon."
Ah! How did I miss that one!?
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@Jim Eshelman said
"Good thinking on your part, but the wrong use of the symbols. (Alchemical language usually is applied to stages below Binah, and often below Tiphereth.) - When you think of the solar system as understood in Medieval times and earlier, Saturn was the outermost planet known. "Turning led to gold" - going from Saturn to the Sun - was going from the outermost (most external) to the inmost center.
Now, having reached this - having "found one's Stone" - there were then subsequent alchemical miracles to perform, and these took one back out into the world. And I entirely agree with you that, eventually, one needs to appreciate lead itself! But it seems to me that one is usually turning to quite different symbols and languages by then. - To one who is not yet an Adept, there isn't an issue of "turning away from & return to Tiphereth," because one isn't yet to Tiphereth (and Binah is still well beyond it). The alchemical language is primarily aimed at the uninitiate passing through stages to become an Adept."
That outer>inner is an excellent explanation (and resolves my own questions on the alchemical symbolism surrounding Binah) since the Adept's crossing of the Abyss moves from duality toward nonduality.
This process is described in terms of clothing. Or rather taking off clothing. On the one hand, there is a gradual unveiling of Babalon - see Salome's Dance of the *Seven Veils *in Waratah Blossoms that mirrors Ishtar's striptease in which she takes off an article of clothing *seven times *until she arrives in the Netherworld completely naked, most desirable and yet dangerous. Saturn's castrating aspect is useful in examining these descriptions (Salome collects the head of John the Baptist for her dance, Ishtar is the ultimate femme fatale, Babalon seduces the world through lust and murder etc) On the other hand, this process is mirrored in the Adept by a gradual divestment of the soul - taking off sandals, loss of HGA, entering the Night of Soul, becoming unadorned, bare, etc. Each successive unveiling is passing through a "gate" toward the center.
Not directly related to the above, the Ishtar Gate was the 8th gate on the pathway to the center of the historical Babylon. I have walked through the Ishtar Gate in the Berlin Pergamon and felt what it must have been like for a traveller to arrive in Babylon - a heightened sense of energy and excitement.
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@he atlas itch said
"This process is described in terms of clothing. Or rather taking off clothing. On the one hand, there is a gradual unveiling of Babalon - see Salome's Dance of the *Seven Veils *in Waratah Blossoms that mirrors Ishtar's striptease in which she takes off an article of clothing *seven times *until she arrives in the Netherworld completely naked, most desirable and yet dangerous. Saturn's castrating aspect is useful in examining these descriptions (Salome collects the head of John the Baptist for her dance, Ishtar is the ultimate femme fatale, Babalon seduces the world through lust and murder etc)"
This is a very interesting comparison, but why is murder equated with seduction? Is there an esoteric interpretation? Atu XIII (Alchemical Eagle/Kteis)?
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I wouldn't read too much into the seduction > murder. Other than noting it's the everyday stuff of the world - woman seduces young man and persuades him to kill old husband so they can run off with his hoard of money, crimes of passion etc.
Adjustment, together with the Fool, constitute such an essential pair in the Tarot that I don't see how it could ***not ***relate to the above.
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@he atlas itch said
"Adjustment, together with the Fool, constitute such an essential pair in the Tarot that I don't see how it could ***not ***relate to the above."
LA=Naught
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@Red Eagle of Death said
"This is a very interesting comparison, but why is murder equated with seduction? Is there an esoteric interpretation? Atu XIII (Alchemical Eagle/Kteis)?"
Something along that line. More specifically, it's a "black widow" archetype, an instinctive equation of orgasm with death, the imagery of being sexually "devoured," the mystic level of identity dissolution of emptying onself into the Undulating Infinite ... stuff like that. There's a big block of biological, instinctual, and archetypal stuff along these lines.
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@Jim Eshelman said
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@Red Eagle of Death said
"This is a very interesting comparison, but why is murder equated with seduction? Is there an esoteric interpretation? Atu XIII (Alchemical Eagle/Kteis)?"Something along that line. More specifically, it's a "black widow" archetype, an instinctive equation of orgasm with death, the imagery of being sexually "devoured," the mystic level of identity dissolution of emptying onself into the Undulating Infinite ... stuff like that. There's a big block of biological, instinctual, and archetypal stuff along these lines."
Freud commented on this same phenomenon as it manifested in children. According to Freud, it is quite common for children to have nightmares & irrational fears of being devoured by their mother. Freud suggested that this phobia stems from a deep-seated memory of having fed on our mother via the breast, & it is only right that she in turn feed on us [compare to Babalon as being "drunken with the blood of the saints" (Rev. 17:6), as well as the Jewish legends surrounding Lilith concerning the consumption of her own children ]. This ties in neatly with the rest of the "black widow" archetype that Babalon so well fulfills.
729
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Going back over my Babalon notes, I found two examples of Her seducing to murder:
- After Dee and Kelley scry the 7th Aethyr and Kelley receives the Daughter of Fortitude vision, he runs off with Dee's wife and money.
- After Parsons and Hubbard do the Babalon Working in the Mojave desert, Hubbard runs off with Parson's wife and money.