What's your take on Revelation?
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@he atlas itch said
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"That these visions would be at least partially flawed is expected, as one Æon cannot hope to fully comprehend the next."It takes an aeon for each principle (Isis, Osiris, Horus) to birth, develop and come into being. If so, it is only when an aeon *is finished *and a new one arises that the former aeon is completed and finally makes sense. Horus will take an aeon to develop before we understand its full implications but, if so, that means Osiris should make more sense than ever now. That would mean prior to 1904, the meaning of Osiris was still a mystery and an apparent absurdity.
"I accept this perspective also, but what you have is actually hindsight, or a general overview, not real empathy. The old Aeon is simply a concept which pertains to our present state of mind, The Linear Past is not "Real" in an independent objective sense, and hence cannot be experienced{ since at whatever point it is experienced, it then becomes present tense} There is only "Now" from a classical perspective, whereby the present may be understood as the cumulative effects of the past, hence the more remote, the less felt(impact) as a real experience. On another note, everyone but those in the most extreme denial could deny that this present age is being defined by the new level of processing power and realities afforded by computers, case in point...This Forum.
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Thanks Jim.
Some brilliant insights there. It's strange because I was "intuiting" a similar idea, that being that 666 is the number of a man (any man) as opposed to say an angel or a god. The original Greek solves it completely. What I don't understand are the other Kabalistic associations such as 888 for Christ etc as I would put Christ at Tipheret as well. Anyway, that's for future study....I guess I should be focusing on other studies with more fervour! I suppose I am squeezing the remnants of a Christian upbringing out of my system!
93 93/93
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@modernPrimitive said
"Thanks Jim.
Some brilliant insights there. It's strange because I was "intuiting" a similar idea, that being that 666 is the number of a man (any man) as opposed to say an angel or a god. The original Greek solves it completely. What I don't understand are the other Kabalistic associations such as 888 for Christ etc as I would put Christ at Tipheret as well. Anyway, that's for future study....I guess I should be focusing on other studies with more fervour! I suppose I am squeezing the remnants of a Christian upbringing out of my system!
93 93/93"
6x3=18=9
8x3=24=6 -
@modernPrimitive said
"What I don't understand are the other Kabalistic associations such as 888 for Christ etc as I would put Christ at Tipheret as well.quote]
The Greek name "Jesus" - IHSOYS, Iesous - enumerates to 888. It's straight gematria like the rest of the list: 10 + 8 + 200 + 70 + 400 + 200.For a couple of thousand years, 8 has been called "the Dominical Number," i.e., "the Number of the Lord," probably in relation to that. There remain places where this characterization is enormously important, e.g., 8 = Cheth, which spelled in full is 418 etc.
But this addresses your point more directly: For at least a thousand years, Tiphereth itself - or, at least, all of the ideas we associate with Tiphereth - has been attributed to 8 in esoteric circles. The best place to study this in depth is in the system of Aurum Solis, where the Ogdoad, or Mystic 8, is the foundation of their system and literally refers to Tiphereth.
One Tree of Life cue: Tiphereth has 8 paths connected to it (8 Sephiroth connected to it): Every one of them except Malkuth.
Don't forget that Christ is foremost the LOGOS, the Word - an expression of 8 as we normally understand it.
In the context of Revelations, this 888 corresponds to Ajna and is the last step before the Crown.
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@Jim Eshelman said
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Greek has its own gematria system, on which all of these are based. The letters Heh Phi Rho Heh Nu have the values 8 + 500 + 100 + 8 + 50 = 666.......
Rev. 13:18:
ODEH SOPhIA ESTIN.O EChON NOYN PsEPhISATATO TON 'ARIThMON TOY ThHRIOY. 'ARIThMOS GAR 'ANThROPOY 'ESTI. ChAIO 'ARIThMOS 666.
Hode he sophia estin. Ho echon noun psephisato ton arithmon tou theriou. Arithmos gar anthropou esti. Chai ho arithmos 666.
Usually translated (KJV): "Here is wisdom. Let him that hath understanding count the number of the beast: for it is the number of a man; and his number is six hundred threescore and six."The Greek word therion means some variety of beast. The solution to this 666 puzzle is the phrase to mega therion, "the great beast." What is the great beast? The answer is stated outright. To understand it, though, you have to know that Greek (like many other languages) doesn't have an indefinite article. That is, "cat" and "a cat" are written exactly the same. (You add a or an in translation when it is contextually convenient.) Also (as in Latin and some other languages, but not so reliably in English), there are different words for a male human (vir, "man" = human adult male) and the human species (homo, "man" = "the human race").
The phrase usually translated "it is the number of a man" has a gratuitous article in translation; and it has been misunderstood, due to translation, that anthropos means "the human species," not "a human adult male.") The phrase therefore should be translated: "It is the number of MAN." That is: "It is the number of HUMANITY."
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That seems to make sense within context I suppose; However i cannot get my mind around the association of 666, and the vulgar fraction 2/3 expressed as a recurring decimal at 0.666666666666666' approximated at 0.67, also X^6 is one end of the loop of an infinitely repetitive cycle, in single digit terms. Once I can figure out how to relate this to Gematria, I would really be on to something!
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[quote="scapegoat"
That seems to make sense within context I suppose; However i cannot get my mind around the association of 666, and the vulgar fraction 2/3 expressed as a recurring decimal at 0.666666666666666' approximated at 0.67
"I usually estimate 2/3 as .666
Interestingly enough, the fraction 2/3 was held in high regard by the Egyptians. It had its own symbol, and most often they attempted to express other fractions as derivatives of 2/3 (do not ask me about that last part, not entirely sure how that works).
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@Scapegoa said
"I accept this perspective also, but what you have is actually hindsight, or a general overview, not real empathy. The old Aeon is simply a concept which pertains to our present state of mind, The Linear Past is not "Real" in an independent objective sense, and hence cannot be experienced{ since at whatever point it is experienced, it then becomes present tense} There is only "Now" from a classical perspective, whereby the present may be understood as the cumulative effects of the past, hence the more remote, the less felt(impact) as a real experience."
Its a little more than that. The aeon orients our sense of reality. The belief that birth lies in the past and death awaits in the future is part and parcel of the Osirian context. The Aeon of Osiris was characterized by the belief in the Dying God/Saviour/Green Fool archetype who dies on behalf of humanity, descends into the Netherworld/Night, becomes vindicated and resurrects again, thus opening the way for others to follow in his steps and become vindicated and resurrected.
The Old Aeon is based on sacrificial logic. After Adam and Eve ate of the Tree of Knowledge, their eyes were opened, they became self-conscious and clothed their nakedness in fig leaves. Curiously *the Elohim *then sacrifice an animal and clothe the couple in the skin of the dead animal (Genesis 3:21). The animal was killed as a substitute for their disobedience (probably the first recorded death in the Garden of Eden, symbolically linking Adam and Eve to its fate and foreshadowing the Elohim's promise that if they ate of the Tree of Knowledge they would surely die). From an anthropological perspective it would be interesting to know the name of this first animal sacrificed in the Garden, on whom the Dying God/Saviour/Green Fool archetype was based. Adam and Eve's sense of shame is signified by the fact they "clothe/veil/hide" themselves in the skin of an animal who was sacrificed on their behalf. It is important to note that sacrifice was never an end in itself but a means for deferring divine retribution into the future via a temporary substitute and thus a symbolic means of survival. The absurdity of sacrificial/Osirian logic is most clearly evidenced by human history itself or when analyzing the seemingly contradictory concepts of Time and Being. The Aeon of Osiris does not make sense unless it is placed in the context of humanity's primordial Fall into matter (Isis = the prelapsarian period) and future resurrection and dominion over the material plane (Horus).
As such sacrifice may be the primal founding and signifying act out of which the concept of law (right and wrong; appeasement of the gods etc) and time (history as a series of sacrificial acts) emerged. The concept of Judgement Day awaiting at the end of time implies a future where sacrificial logic no longer functions and divine judgement no longer deferred, all is unveiled (cf. the Apocalypse; Christ's harrowing of Hades, the Anastasis etc) and everyone is judged as they "are". In Revelations it is the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world, having seven horns and seven eyes, which are the seven spirits of God sent forth into all the world (Rev 5:6), that is deemed worthy to unseal the seven seals on the book.
The above schema suggests Thelemic aeons need to be conceptualized in far broader periods than 2000 - 3000 year cycles. Based on the above I would say, for example, that humanity as we know it = the Aeon of Osiris. What is certain is that Crowley's religious upbringing and his background in the Golden Dawn (specifically the Neophyte Ritual) came into play during the Cairo Working and his formulation of aeonic succession. The evidence lies in the Stele of Revealing.
We know what attracted Crowley's attention to the Stele was the number 666 since he had identified with the Great Beast of Revelations from childhood ever since his mother called him a "Beast". But he never explicitly states what he "saw" in the Stele - a curious fact to note. The paraphrased reverse lines of the Stele read:
*Saith of Mentu the truth-telling brother
Who was master of Thebes from his birth
O heart of me, heart of my mother!
O heart which I had upon earth!
Stand not thou up against me in witness!
Oppose me, not, judge, in my quest!
Accuse me not now of unfitness
Before the Great God, the dread Lord of the West!
For I have fastened the one to the other
With a spell for their mystical girth *Crowley's identification with Ankh-n-f-Khonsu comes from *the mother *but his revelation requires closer examination. Note the Lord of the West is Osiris. The sun rises in the East (birth) and sets in the West (death). For Osiris to sit on the throne in the West implies being ruled by knowledge of future death. The Equinox of the Gods and aeonic shift occurred when orientation changed from Osiris in the West (sunset) to Horus in the East (dawn). Sunset and dawn *look identical *but a reorientation of 180 degrees is required to understand the New Aeon. As such the glittering light of the Unique One (the moon/Iah/Khonsu) is either lunacy or sanity of a higher order:
Boulaq:
*I gather together / (those who are) among / the brightness *
Gardiner-Gunn:
*He that gathereth together those that are in the Light *Recall that Osiris is the Dying God/Saviour/Green Fool archetype who paves the way for the rest of humanity to follow. The aeonic shift implies this is no longer the future but the reality of the present, that we have entered Night (as evidenced by the significance of the moon in the Stele), are undergoing vindication to await future dawn/resurrection.
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@Jim Eshelman said
"For at least a thousand years, Tiphereth itself - or, at least, all of the ideas we associate with Tiphereth - has been attributed to 8 in esoteric circles. The best place to study this in depth is in the system of Aurum Solis, where the Ogdoad, or Mystic 8, is the foundation of their system and literally refers to Tiphereth."
Case talks about how the Sun and Mercury can be interchangable in a sense; does that relate to the above? I believe I read something similar in an Alice Bailey book.
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Excerpt from another analysis I found interesting:
"A form of this hypothesis, though unpublished and considerably less developed, was expressed in 1798 by William Blake, writing in the margins of his copy of R. Watson, Bishop of Landoff's An Apology for the Bible,
The Beast & the Whore rule without control. . . A defence of the Wickedness of the Israelites in murdering so many thousands under pretence of a command from God is altogether Abominable & Blasphemous. . . the Jewish Scriptures which are only an Example of the wickedness & deceit of the Jews & were written as an Example of the possibility of Human Beastliness in all its branches.13
Blake is not writing this in an attempt to express his own anti-Semitism. Rather, Blake interpreted scriptural figures such as the "Beast" and the "Whore" of Revelation, as "aggregates" or groups of man (clumps or agglutinations of many men) seen from a distance ("from afar"). In this Allegorical perception, really a direct transference of objective vision into subjective imagination, men grouped as such, assumed what Blake calls a "dragon form." A mass of marching men in a column, for example, seen from a great distance advancing down any typically winding road, would appear from that distance to be a huge, metallically gleaming snake coiling slowly over the land. The Greek word dragon ( drakwn ) itself derives from derkomai ( derkomai ), which means to see or took at, or to "behold."
Blake, going against the tide of all other pietistic Biblical analysis up to and including his own time, asserts,The destruction of the Canaanites by Joshua was the Unnatural design of Wicked men [.] To Extirpate a nation by means of another nation is as wicked as to destroy an individual by means of another individual which God considers (in the Bible) as Murder & and Commands that it shall not be done. ... The laws of the Jews (both ceremonial & real) the basest & most oppressive of human codes. & being like all other codes given under pretence of divine command were what Christ pronounced them The Abomination that maketh desolate. i.e. State Religion which is the Source of all Cruelty.14
William Blake saw, I believe, that the "Beast" would arise of itself from the natural inclination of humanity (or "human nature") toward cruelty and evil. Man's predisposition to commit acts of atrocity or violence always finds some "rational" or "rationalized" cause or precedent, whether it be Simeon and Levi taking vengeance on Shechem, or Joshua mobilizing against the Canaanites, or Dan slaughtering innocents at the village of Laish. This evil animus John of Patmos, in Revelation, named "the Beast," and he brought together the numbers 600 and 66 to show the union of military power — the phalanx — and "State Religion" — the Amphictyony of the Twelve Tribes — as represented in the number of men in the twelve tribes of the Israelite court, its "royal family." These focused forces, brought together by the union of the military with State Religion, are the true servants of Satan and the anarchic, dark impulses that perpetuate evil in the world. When W. B. Yeats wrote in his famous line, "And what rough Beast slouches toward Bethlehem to be born?"15, he may well have more appropriately used the verb, "marches."" -
@Jim Eshelman said
"Any political implications, or worldly-event circumstances, are the consequence of deep, unexpressed individual and mass-mind psychological factors working themselves out as projections.
Fundamentally, the book is a technical manual on yoga. It is a fairly rigorous curriculum of the chakras (four or five individual passes, going from memory) and the consequences of applying yogic methods to their systematic purification and awakening. All of the major content of besides the multiple seven-fold passes pretty much falls into the category of phenomena or consequences of that work.
I've had a book about one third written on paper, and almost finished in my head, for a dozen years. Several years ago, I gave a preliminary start-to-finish tour of it to our members at one of our annual all-Order seminars. There are a few technical rough spots but, for the most part, it's pretty straight forward.
Example: The seven letters to the Churches of Assiah are the purification pass of the chakras. Each is addressed in turn, something is said basic to establish its nature and characteristics, usually some praise of its virtue is mentioned, and then there is a symbolic statement of an existing error or something that needs to be done to bring it into preliminary purification. As a consequence of this, Ch. 4 then opens with a vision that is representative of typical consequences of that work.
I don't know that the vision anticipated Aeonic changes. Rather, it talked about things that we only started to understand in a different way thousands of years later.
No, I don't think it shows a reversion to Christianity etc. "Christ will return" is simply a measure of the fruit of the work. In this sense, "Christ" is the same as "Horus." This Greek work is careful to use the full "Jesus Christ" which, in the Greek original, has numerical ratios identical with those of the lines and line-parts that compose the pentagram (basic Golden Mean stuff) - this is "the Anointed One" in the broadest sense, the Holy Guardian Angel."
Jim, you're understanding of the book of Revelations is spot on.
I have completely translated the entire book, it has taken me several years. I give the meaning of every word and symbol line by line.
If anyone would like a free copy of my word file, just pm me or email me at <!-- e --><a href="mailto:zzzgoat@yahoo.com">zzzgoat@yahoo.com</a><!-- e -->
Danny
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Is it correct to equate the Four Horsemen of the Apocalypse with Abramelin's Four Crown Princes of Hell?
Lucifer - white horse
Satan - red horse
Belial - black horse
Leviathan - pale horse -
@he atlas itch said
"Is it correct to equate the Four Horsemen of the Apocalypse with Abramelin's Four Crown Princes of Hell?
Lucifer - white horse
Satan - red horse
Belial - black horse
Leviathan - pale horse"Whether or not it's "correct," it's not my read.
As much as I'd like to relate them to the Kerubic constellations, their symbolism relates them to the constellations Libra through Capricorn. These are the signs that "kill the Sun."
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@Jim Eshelman said
"As much as I'd like to relate them to the Kerubic constellations, their symbolism relates them to the constellations Libra through Capricorn. These are the signs that "kill the Sun.""
By "them" are you referring to the Horsemen or the Crown Princes?
If Libra - Capricorn are the signs that "kill the Sun" does that mean one must attain mastery over paths 22, 26, 25, 24 and 20 to become centered in Tiphareth?