It seems many Thelemites seem overly obsessed with wealth
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Good points, frateruranus.
I've been thinking very similar thoughts recently. This month, I am forced to live off of about $8 per day. My Work is not suffering because of this. In fact, it may even be helping me focus. I thought about what I would do with more money, and I realized that (besides more food) most excess money in my possession would probably just be spent on distractions like movies and inebriants.
"There has been a small but vocal group of Thelemites who insist that one's financial situation & lifestyle is a direct reflection of one's capabilities as a magician."
I have also encountered a few of that opinion. It has always struck me as being a little bit of a naive first-worlder's opinion in general. It ignores a) that people in poorer countries also have just as high magical proclivities as people in rich countries, b) the commonly encountered phenomenon in the US of ridiculously rich morons. Saying "I'm well off, therefore, I'm a great magician," seems to come from the same mindset that says "I live in the USA, therefore, I'm awesome."
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Were we not promised wealth in Hamvs Hermeticvs? or was that all just pillow talk?
"I give you power earthly and joy earthly; wealth, and health, and length of days." - Hamvs Hermeticvs, v. 31
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Hello Darkstar, I was just in Salem this past weekend. Its a very quirky town, I got very mixed signals. But an OTO Lodge meets there, its the Knights Templar Lodge, you may be interested in contacting them. I don't know anything about them, I was just visiting the town and I don't live in Mass. Persephone
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93
As is my wont, I shall play the role of where to throw the stones.
As to the judgment of the first post, if I may say perhaps a little bit indelicately, I see the criticism of people who strive for wealth usually comes from those who have had plenty of it. It's just so bourgeois, n'est pas?
And as to the substance of it, no. It has been my experience that the majority of Thelemites might dream of money, but most are almost dead broke. That to me, is one of the aspects of the cosmic joke. As far as I know, I stand alone in my greed and lust.
And yes... give me wealth, shower me with precious gems, make me a magnet for opulence. We are to live in the world, but be not of the world.
Is a God to live in a dog?
93, 93/93
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@Draco Magnus said
"Is a God to live in a dog?"
"Thou art the Lord of Glory, and the unclean dog." - LXV, II:3
729
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I think that the first thing a magician should be attempting is to rack up enugh assets that contemporary work is no longer neccessary to sustain your lively hood. Though the more I say this, the more "experienced" magicians pop up to say I got it all wrong. It makes me wonder how efficacious this stuff really is.
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@Law said
"I think that the first thing a magician should be attempting is to rack up enugh assets that contemporary work is no longer neccessary to sustain your lively hood. Though the more I say this, the more "experienced" magicians pop up to say I got it all wrong. It makes me wonder how efficacious this stuff really is.
"The notion that mastery of the material plane involves getting rich enough to avoid having to work seems like a fundamental misunderstanding of the nature of Malkuth to me. Malkuth is a sphere of work, work is fundamental to the nature of Malkuth. Change cannot be affected on this plane without work. I would think that one of the first tasks of a magician is, as Gurdjieff advised, to learn to love work for its own sake.
You can make the argument that it would be better to spend 100% of your time doing your True Will and your True Will alone. I'd say that part of your True Will is to ensure the maintenance of your Guph, an ongoing task which inevitably involves several types of work.
I've known several people who have managed to make a living running a magical order, teaching magic, and the like. Every single one of them has run into serious conflicts between doing their Will effectively and ensuring their income. Seems like the easiest solution to that particular issue is simply to get a job. The best artists (even those who make quite a bit of money) don't do what they do for the money, and would (often do, in fact) continue to work when the money runs dry.
I suppose you could force the hand of chance with a rich relative, or maybe cause a batch of precious metals to appear under your back yard. In the meantime, seems like the most expedient thing to simply learn a trade while you pursue to Great Work.
As an addendum - I will say that it is very possible to get rich using Geomantic divination. I've seen this work wonders with the stock market several times. Crowley has a very amusing story (in Magick Without Tears, if I remember correctly) about a man who used Geomancy to find a large deposit of mineral wealth. The difficulty with this method lies in the fact that the amount of work required to do the necessary amount of Geomancy rivals the amount of work needed to learn a trade. Seems like it always comes down to that.
FM
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My main concern is clearig the proper road for me to begin yoga, which I find impossible working 6am to 6 pm one week, then opposite the next. I can barely keep my eyes open long enpugh to read. i tried all those sigils and what not that austin osman spare supposedly succeeded with and got nothing. I know little of geomancy. Working for its own sake makes to me as much sense as hurting for hurts sake. If you can avoid the pain of somthing, then do so. Thats what the entire civilized world is built on. I dont know. I dont think theres much room for me in this magick stuff, even though I think I have a thourough grasp of the basics.
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@Law said
"My main concern is clearig the proper road for me to begin yoga, which I find impossible working 6am to 6 pm one week, then opposite the next. I can barely keep my eyes open long enpugh to read."
I would suggest going into another profession.
@Law said
"i tried all those sigils and what not that austin osman spare supposedly succeeded with and got nothing. I know little of geomancy. Working for its own sake makes to me as much sense as hurting for hurts sake. If you can avoid the pain of somthing, then do so. Thats what the entire civilized world is built on. I dont know. I dont think theres much room for me in this magick stuff, even though I think I have a thourough grasp of the basics.
"Magick involves more work that the hardest of professions. Passion, drive, a willingness to change and quite a bit of adaptability are required in order to succeed.
The exact same things are pre-requisites for mastery in any field. Can you imagine an aspiring violin player who refuses to invest their time in daily practice? Or a martial artist who can't be bothered to exercise and stay in shape? There is a pervasive myth that magick can be used to make your life easier and to avoid work - exactly the opposite is true. It can, however, if persisted in, lead you to find the joy in every moment, whether that moment be spent at work or in rest.
FM
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"I would suggest going into another profession."
It's that easy with unemployment about to hit double digits?
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@RosenKreutz said
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"I would suggest going into another profession."It's that easy with unemployment about to hit double digits?"
It may or may not be. My point is that entering onto the spiritual path will not quickly solve this type of problem for you in the early stages (or, necessarily, in the later stages).
When I say the 'spiritual path', at least while I'm on this particular forum, I'm referring specifically to the path as defined by the A.A. If you attain to K&C of the HGA and pinpoint your True Will, you're still responsible for generating an income in order to survive. Work is still going to be a major part of your life (probably more so!)
FM
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"See how the Amish live for example. Their life is better or worse than one living in a big city ? Much better for sure. This applies for any farmer as well. "
mass inbreeding, high rates of meth addiction.....this is better? absurd.
"I would suggest going into another profession. "
well, I take by your name fraulien that your a woman so I gues I am almostt forced to forgive the fact that you seem oblivious to the current rate of unemplyment here in the USA, not that you work yourself, any way Gods only know that in my 25 years on this garbage dump that there is one thing i can say for sure, if your a women not much is demanded of in general. must be nice. For those of us not blessed by more vaginal gifts, I think ther should definetly be an emphasis on sucuring enough in the material realm where all its dramas and hysterics fall into the background. But again Im sure that there are plenty of enlightened scholars out there who would cast this notion off in a second, but not for having any better answer. again I cant help but be suspicious......
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@Law said
"well, I take by your name fraulien that your a woman..."
No, in fact I am not (updated my profile name to reflect gender - Fraulein Meow is a pseudonym that I have often used in person, where my gender is more obvious).
My point was not that it is easy to change professions in the current economic climate, but that work is part and parcel of the spiritual path as defined by the curriculum of the A.A.
HM
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ROFLMAO...
Funny turn of events, no?
My fiance's response to Law's post was, "Yeah, it's been so easy continually being undervalued and sexually harassed at work." And having gone through all that with her, taking all the steps necessary to make it stop yet ensuring she wouldn't lose her job, I'd have to agree completely with her - especially since every word of Law's post completely illustrated both her experience and her point.
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@Red Eagle of Death said
"Were we not promised wealth in Hamvs Hermeticvs? or was that all just pillow talk?
"I give you power earthly and joy earthly; wealth, and health, and length of days." - Hamvs Hermeticvs, v. 31"
I think a lot of this issue has to do with black-and-white type of thinking. It's one thing to want more wealth because you "only" have 3 million in the bank and your country club friends bust your balls because of it... it's another thing because you are sharing a cramped studio apartment, you can't hold down work, and can't afford new shoes.
I think wealth should be aimed for, but it's really about getting to a place where you're comfortable and can do what you want to do relatively easily. This could mean totally different things for different people from different backgrounds.