To guru or not to guru?
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I have read in a great deal of mystic literature that it is a necessity to have contact with a guru or mystic superior. Is there a good reason for this, or is it simply to avoid megalomania? If one can discern one's own fault and not pat himself on the back for it, does that suffice to neglect a guru (provided one has the resources to further his study (read: internet))?
I know, I know, as IAO131 would say, "Google it!";) But I feel what I need here is not the rehashed words of some century(ies)-old author. I would know people's own thoughts and/or empirical experiences regarding this topic.
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One teacher says, “This is my method.” Another teacher says, “This is my method.” The poor student is confused. After some time he finds that his mind, his individuality, and his pocket have been robbed.
I think the only purpose a teacher guide or guru has is Introduction to the teaching.93 93/93
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@seekinghga said
" If one can discern one's own fault and not pat himself on the back for it"
If someone truly believes that they're truly capable of doing this, they're so good that they don't ever need a second set of eyes on any situation, then I think they're already suffering from a bit of megalomania.
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All teachers aren't 'gurus'. The orignial meaning of this term is a teacher who one must obey. I think a well-chosen teacher, one who doesn't charge money, is a great asset. But a guru in the strict Eastern definition doesn't suit most of us.
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@kuniggety said
"
@seekinghga said
" If one can discern one's own fault and not pat himself on the back for it"If someone truly believes that they're truly capable of doing this, they're so good that they don't ever need a second set of eyes on any situation, then I think they're already suffering from a bit of megalomania."
Truly? I'll truly take that into true consideration.
PS
I agree. -
@PainMeridian said
"One teacher says, “This is my method.” Another teacher says, “This is my method.” The poor student is confused. After some time he finds that his mind, his individuality, and his pocket have been robbed.
I think the only purpose a teacher guide or guru has is Introduction to the teaching.93 93/93"
Hmmm. I find myself leaning toward the same conclusion. I just wonder because almost every author on Hindu mysticism advocates a Guru. Sivananda, Vivekananda, Ramakrishna, etc... I guess they just had the shortcomings of the human mind (read: Ego) in mind, knowing that we would tend toward pride rather than vairagya... Anyways, thanks for the answer.
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93,
Kuniggety nailed it, I think. In the end, the teacher doesn't show you what to believe or what to do or how you should be - even if he/she is trying to do so. Rather, the teacher provides a methodology and a gauge. At some point we end up moving on, or at least redefining our relationship with our teacher(s). But until we've had some uncomfortable encounters with ourselves, as reflected by or through the teacher we choose, we won't find out what we need to learn.
Expressing and exploring aspiration is not a matter of soaring towards some 'spiritual goal,' which is almost certain to be tied up in mundane ego issues. Rather, it's a matter of making fools of ourselves, so that we can eventually become Fools. So-called mistakes are crucial in that learning process.
93 93/93,
EM
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@seekinghga said
"I have read in a great deal of mystic literature that it is a necessity to have contact with a guru or mystic superior. Is there a good reason for this, or is it simply to avoid megalomania? If one can discern one's own fault and not pat himself on the back for it, does that suffice to neglect a guru (provided one has the resources to further his study (read: internet))?
I know, I know, as IAO131 would say, "Google it!";) But I feel what I need here is not the rehashed words of some century(ies)-old author. I would know people's own thoughts and/or empirical experiences regarding this topic."
Somebody (I think maybe Francis Lucille or one of those Advaita people) put it like this: if a kid cries in the middle of the night, because there's a monster under her bed, the mother is able to comfort her. Why? Well, surely partly because the mother knows, with absolute certainty, that there is no monster under the child's bed. The child resonates with that certainty and is comforted.
Maybe it's something similar going on with the guru/disciple relationship, only substitue "ego" for "monster under the bed"
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The only real guru is your True Will. Everything else is secondary to that.
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@seekinghga said
"
Truly? I'll truly take that into true consideration.
."Truly
I didn't even notice I said it twice in one sentence...ah well. -
The hindu concept of guru also includes that of an inner tutelary deity
I wonder if this parallels one's HGA?93 93/93
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Not every person is to have a guru at every moment of their life.
On the one hand, being open and ready for one, and carefully observing to see what the universe offers is a good idea.
On the other hand, thinking that you must have a guru right now, and deciding to go out and seek one urgently and unabashedly is risky.
Then again, that might be just the lesson a person needs.
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@Edward Mason said
"93,
Kuniggety nailed it, I think. In the end, the teacher doesn't show you what to believe or what to do or how you should be - even if he/she is trying to do so. Rather, the teacher provides a methodology and a gauge. At some point we end up moving on, or at least redefining our relationship with our teacher(s). But until we've had some uncomfortable encounters with ourselves, as reflected by or through the teacher we choose, we won't find out what we need to learn.
Expressing and exploring aspiration is not a matter of soaring towards some 'spiritual goal,' which is almost certain to be tied up in mundane ego issues. Rather, it's a matter of making fools of ourselves, so that we can eventually become Fools. So-called mistakes are crucial in that learning process.
93 93/93,
EM"
I thought as much. Thanks for sharing this Mr. Mason.
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[edit] nm, this post can be deleted
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"The last thing good gurus want is others shaped in their image."
- J. Jennings (emphasis added)