Eleven, the Qliphoth, and Thelema
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Do what thou wilt shall be the whole of the Law.
I was reading through that ol' maniac Kenneth Grant's Aleister Crowley and the Hidden God the other day and I came upon this curious quote from Dion Fortune regarding Crowley's Thelemic Magick:
Crowley's Magick is valuable to the student, but only the advanced student could use it with profit. The formulae, too, on which he works, would be considered averse and evil by occultists accustomed to the Qabalistic tradition, for he uses 11 instead of 10 as the basis of his battery of knocks, in the magical ceremonies, and 11 is the number of the Qliphoth. No hint of this is given in the text, and it is an ugly trap for the unwary student.
To be honest, I was a bit taken aback by this. I had no idea as my understanding of the Qliphoth is very limited. Grant goes on to add:
It is true that eleven is the number of the qliphoth, the unbalanced residue cast off by, and therefore outside, the ten
Sephiroth, but man has to triumph over these unbalanced forces in his own nature before he can become a master
magician. In order to do this he first has to evoke the qliphoth, which he does by formulating the averse pentagram
(the Star of Set) after he has established his magical supremacy by balancing within himself the five elements
represented by the upright pentagram (the Star of Nuit). The magician is himself the eleventh, because he is forever
outside and beyond the operation of the ten (i.e. the two pentagrams).Now Grant's response made me feel a little more at ease because I can understand how one would invoke the darker forces in order to master them, not unlike calling upon ALL the demons in the Abramelin operation. But still, I was left a little uneasy by the whole thing just because, like Fortune mentions, the fact of 11 being the number of the Qliphoth is never mentioned in Crowley's writing, at least not to my knowledge or written in any sort of clear way that I have picked up on. From this, I must admit, I was kind of left with the feeling like: 'Whoa, what have I gotten myself into.' I remain dedicated to the Great Work but feel that I may need some clarification on this.
The main reason that I came to use Crowley's system was that in the beginning of my occult career I was involved in Chaos Magick. In the beginning, I got in WAY over my head and got burnt so to speak by the forces I was so irresponsibly toying with. As a result of my irresponsibility, I was left with a great deal of due consequences that I had not bargained for and spent a few years cleaning up the psychic and karmic debris. As a result of this process, I became much more cautious with what I dabbled with and always kept my motives in check. My direction became much more spiritually minded rather than seeking out methods for material gain or personal power. Eventually I came upon Crowley and rather quickly found his methods to be an exceedingly effective system of spiritual attainment. From this point I became (and still am) OBSESSED with Crowley's work, and marvel at the other-worldly magnitude of his genius. Now it has been years that I have been studying and practicing Crowley's methods and I stand as a witness to their effectiveness. STILL! I have always tried to remain cautious and has it happened that I have wandered in over my head again by dealing with a system based upon the (triumph over the?) residue of creation?
Please forgive me if I have misunderstood or remain ignorant of any essential facts. I feel that this topic is one that may need clarification to correct any misconceptions and ease doubts. What are the dangers that the Magickian faces in working in a system such as Crowley's? What does a system based around ten lack in comparison to Crowley's system? Was it Liber AL that announced this move to a system based around eleven when it announced that ABRAHADABRA was the word of the Aeon? Is the Aeon of Horus the Aeon where man finally confronts and gains mastery over the Qliphoth?
I look forward to hearing what any of you may have to offer on this subject.
Love is the Law, love under will.
@Michael Staley said
"
@Jim Eshelman said
"This is just one of (probably) a thousand reasons that I don't take Grant as a real authority on Thelema. (On his direct experience with Crowley, yes. On the real love of his live, Buddhism, yes, if he'd ever written on it. On Thelema, no.)"To be fair, Jim, Kenneth Grant has never represented himself as an authority on Thelema."
Really? Never? Not even in whatever Typhonian OTO?
"He is just writes about how he sees it, how he experiences it, and the conclusions he has come to. He does have a high regard for Buddhism (as do many of us, I'm sure, including of course Crowley), but I'm not sure it's his first love, your contact's view notwithstanding."
It seems more like hes writing fiction.
"Despite the typically sneering remarks by Aum418, Grant commands a great and growing respect for his vast body of profound work. There is a great deal of interest for instance in the recent republication of Outside the Circles of Time. "
THere are also millions upon millions of evangelical Christians - does that mean anything?
"Yes, there are inaccuracies in Grant's works. He's not a scholar; he writes in the fervour of inspiration, and sometimes gets his facts wrong."
I'd say almost always.
"In his early years he lacked a sympathetic editor, who could have brought these to his attention. However, there is a real strength and insight to his work, and the inaccuracies do not detract from this."
And, with Eshelman, I have to disagree. His work is more fictional and of an LSD-infused over-active imagination than anything.
IAO131
-
Do what thou wilt shall be the whole of the Law.
I was reading through that ol' maniac Kenneth Grant's Aleister Crowley and the Hidden God the other day and I came upon this curious quote from Dion Fortune regarding Crowley's Thelemic Magick:
Crowley's Magick is valuable to the student, but only the advanced student could use it with profit. The formulae, too, on which he works, would be considered averse and evil by occultists accustomed to the Qabalistic tradition, for he uses 11 instead of 10 as the basis of his battery of knocks, in the magical ceremonies, and 11 is the number of the Qliphoth. No hint of this is given in the text, and it is an ugly trap for the unwary student.
To be honest, I was a bit taken aback by this. I had no idea as my understanding of the Qliphoth is very limited. Grant goes on to add:
It is true that eleven is the number of the qliphoth, the unbalanced residue cast off by, and therefore outside, the ten
Sephiroth, but man has to triumph over these unbalanced forces in his own nature before he can become a master
magician. In order to do this he first has to evoke the qliphoth, which he does by formulating the averse pentagram
(the Star of Set) after he has established his magical supremacy by balancing within himself the five elements
represented by the upright pentagram (the Star of Nuit). The magician is himself the eleventh, because he is forever
outside and beyond the operation of the ten (i.e. the two pentagrams).Now Grant's response made me feel a little more at ease because I can understand how one would invoke the darker forces in order to master them, not unlike calling upon ALL the demons in the Abramelin operation. But still, I was left a little uneasy by the whole thing just because, like Fortune mentions, the fact of 11 being the number of the Qliphoth is never mentioned in Crowley's writing, at least not to my knowledge or written in any sort of clear way that I have picked up on. From this, I must admit, I was kind of left with the feeling like: 'Whoa, what have I gotten myself into.' I remain dedicated to the Great Work but feel that I may need some clarification on this.
The main reason that I came to use Crowley's system was that in the beginning of my occult career I was involved in Chaos Magick. In the beginning, I got in WAY over my head and got burnt so to speak by the forces I was so irresponsibly toying with. As a result of my irresponsibility, I was left with a great deal of due consequences that I had not bargained for and spent a few years cleaning up the psychic and karmic debris. As a result of this process, I became much more cautious with what I dabbled with and always kept my motives in check. My direction became much more spiritually minded rather than seeking out methods for material gain or personal power. Eventually I came upon Crowley and rather quickly found his methods to be an exceedingly effective system of spiritual attainment. From this point I became (and still am) OBSESSED with Crowley's work, and marvel at the other-worldly magnitude of his genius. Now it has been years that I have been studying and practicing Crowley's methods and I stand as a witness to their effectiveness. STILL! I have always tried to remain cautious and has it happened that I have wandered in over my head again by dealing with a system based upon the (triumph over the?) residue of creation?
Please forgive me if I have misunderstood or remain ignorant of any essential facts. I feel that this topic is one that may need clarification to correct any misconceptions and ease doubts. What are the dangers that the Magickian faces in working in a system such as Crowley's? What does a system based around ten lack in comparison to Crowley's system? Was it Liber AL that announced this move to a system based around eleven when it announced that ABRAHADABRA was the word of the Aeon? Is the Aeon of Horus the Aeon where man finally confronts and gains mastery over the Qliphoth?
I look forward to hearing what any of you may have to offer on this subject.
Love is the Law, love under will.
-
Do what thou wilt shall be the whole of the Law.
I was reading through that ol' maniac Kenneth Grant's Aleister Crowley and the Hidden God the other day and I came upon this curious quote from Dion Fortune regarding Crowley's Thelemic Magick:
Crowley's Magick is valuable to the student, but only the advanced student could use it with profit. The formulae, too, on which he works, would be considered averse and evil by occultists accustomed to the Qabalistic tradition, for he uses 11 instead of 10 as the basis of his battery of knocks, in the magical ceremonies, and 11 is the number of the Qliphoth. No hint of this is given in the text, and it is an ugly trap for the unwary student.
To be honest, I was a bit taken aback by this. I had no idea as my understanding of the Qliphoth is very limited. Grant goes on to add:
It is true that eleven is the number of the qliphoth, the unbalanced residue cast off by, and therefore outside, the ten
Sephiroth, but man has to triumph over these unbalanced forces in his own nature before he can become a master
magician. In order to do this he first has to evoke the qliphoth, which he does by formulating the averse pentagram
(the Star of Set) after he has established his magical supremacy by balancing within himself the five elements
represented by the upright pentagram (the Star of Nuit). The magician is himself the eleventh, because he is forever
outside and beyond the operation of the ten (i.e. the two pentagrams).Now Grant's response made me feel a little more at ease because I can understand how one would invoke the darker forces in order to master them, not unlike calling upon ALL the demons in the Abramelin operation. But still, I was left a little uneasy by the whole thing just because, like Fortune mentions, the fact of 11 being the number of the Qliphoth is never mentioned in Crowley's writing, at least not to my knowledge or written in any sort of clear way that I have picked up on. From this, I must admit, I was kind of left with the feeling like: 'Whoa, what have I gotten myself into.' I remain dedicated to the Great Work but feel that I may need some clarification on this.
The main reason that I came to use Crowley's system was that in the beginning of my occult career I was involved in Chaos Magick. In the beginning, I got in WAY over my head and got burnt so to speak by the forces I was so irresponsibly toying with. As a result of my irresponsibility, I was left with a great deal of due consequences that I had not bargained for and spent a few years cleaning up the psychic and karmic debris. As a result of this process, I became much more cautious with what I dabbled with and always kept my motives in check. My direction became much more spiritually minded rather than seeking out methods for material gain or personal power. Eventually I came upon Crowley and rather quickly found his methods to be an exceedingly effective system of spiritual attainment. From this point I became (and still am) OBSESSED with Crowley's work, and marvel at the other-worldly magnitude of his genius. Now it has been years that I have been studying and practicing Crowley's methods and I stand as a witness to their effectiveness. STILL! I have always tried to remain cautious and has it happened that I have wandered in over my head again by dealing with a system based upon the (triumph over the?) residue of creation?
Please forgive me if I have misunderstood or remain ignorant of any essential facts. I feel that this topic is one that may need clarification to correct any misconceptions and ease doubts. What are the dangers that the Magickian faces in working in a system such as Crowley's? What does a system based around ten lack in comparison to Crowley's system? Was it Liber AL that announced this move to a system based around eleven when it announced that ABRAHADABRA was the word of the Aeon? Is the Aeon of Horus the Aeon where man finally confronts and gains mastery over the Qliphoth?
I look forward to hearing what any of you may have to offer on this subject.
Love is the Law, love under will.
Isn't this all mainly concerning the view that Thelema is a Theurgic philosophy, the goal being to become at 'One' with the Universe and what Crowley was getting at in reference to the Qliphoth is that through their pathworking hidden knowledge and abilities are attained making it possible to separate from the Universe?
-
Do what thou wilt shall be the whole of the Law.
I was reading through that ol' maniac Kenneth Grant's Aleister Crowley and the Hidden God the other day and I came upon this curious quote from Dion Fortune regarding Crowley's Thelemic Magick:
Crowley's Magick is valuable to the student, but only the advanced student could use it with profit. The formulae, too, on which he works, would be considered averse and evil by occultists accustomed to the Qabalistic tradition, for he uses 11 instead of 10 as the basis of his battery of knocks, in the magical ceremonies, and 11 is the number of the Qliphoth. No hint of this is given in the text, and it is an ugly trap for the unwary student.
To be honest, I was a bit taken aback by this. I had no idea as my understanding of the Qliphoth is very limited. Grant goes on to add:
It is true that eleven is the number of the qliphoth, the unbalanced residue cast off by, and therefore outside, the ten
Sephiroth, but man has to triumph over these unbalanced forces in his own nature before he can become a master
magician. In order to do this he first has to evoke the qliphoth, which he does by formulating the averse pentagram
(the Star of Set) after he has established his magical supremacy by balancing within himself the five elements
represented by the upright pentagram (the Star of Nuit). The magician is himself the eleventh, because he is forever
outside and beyond the operation of the ten (i.e. the two pentagrams).Now Grant's response made me feel a little more at ease because I can understand how one would invoke the darker forces in order to master them, not unlike calling upon ALL the demons in the Abramelin operation. But still, I was left a little uneasy by the whole thing just because, like Fortune mentions, the fact of 11 being the number of the Qliphoth is never mentioned in Crowley's writing, at least not to my knowledge or written in any sort of clear way that I have picked up on. From this, I must admit, I was kind of left with the feeling like: 'Whoa, what have I gotten myself into.' I remain dedicated to the Great Work but feel that I may need some clarification on this.
The main reason that I came to use Crowley's system was that in the beginning of my occult career I was involved in Chaos Magick. In the beginning, I got in WAY over my head and got burnt so to speak by the forces I was so irresponsibly toying with. As a result of my irresponsibility, I was left with a great deal of due consequences that I had not bargained for and spent a few years cleaning up the psychic and karmic debris. As a result of this process, I became much more cautious with what I dabbled with and always kept my motives in check. My direction became much more spiritually minded rather than seeking out methods for material gain or personal power. Eventually I came upon Crowley and rather quickly found his methods to be an exceedingly effective system of spiritual attainment. From this point I became (and still am) OBSESSED with Crowley's work, and marvel at the other-worldly magnitude of his genius. Now it has been years that I have been studying and practicing Crowley's methods and I stand as a witness to their effectiveness. STILL! I have always tried to remain cautious and has it happened that I have wandered in over my head again by dealing with a system based upon the (triumph over the?) residue of creation?
Please forgive me if I have misunderstood or remain ignorant of any essential facts. I feel that this topic is one that may need clarification to correct any misconceptions and ease doubts. What are the dangers that the Magickian faces in working in a system such as Crowley's? What does a system based around ten lack in comparison to Crowley's system? Was it Liber AL that announced this move to a system based around eleven when it announced that ABRAHADABRA was the word of the Aeon? Is the Aeon of Horus the Aeon where man finally confronts and gains mastery over the Qliphoth?
I look forward to hearing what any of you may have to offer on this subject.
Love is the Law, love under will.
93, All,
FWIW, although I've never met Grant (those few pages I've read of his work have far from impressed me), in my experience, every single person I've worked with in ceremony that has considered his work to be of any importance has turned out to be nearly incompetent. To wit, there's a distinct lack of focus on the task at hand and what skills they do employ are sloppy, ill-timed, and quite often at odds with the rest of the participants, even to the point of arriving very late, blowing off rehearsals, and unduly influencing others--especially through sexual persuasion.
I've no idea why this is, but it's nearly to a man, and quite frustrating.
Maybe it's the aliens...
93s,
L.P.D, Nu
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Do what thou wilt shall be the whole of the Law.
I was reading through that ol' maniac Kenneth Grant's Aleister Crowley and the Hidden God the other day and I came upon this curious quote from Dion Fortune regarding Crowley's Thelemic Magick:
Crowley's Magick is valuable to the student, but only the advanced student could use it with profit. The formulae, too, on which he works, would be considered averse and evil by occultists accustomed to the Qabalistic tradition, for he uses 11 instead of 10 as the basis of his battery of knocks, in the magical ceremonies, and 11 is the number of the Qliphoth. No hint of this is given in the text, and it is an ugly trap for the unwary student.
To be honest, I was a bit taken aback by this. I had no idea as my understanding of the Qliphoth is very limited. Grant goes on to add:
It is true that eleven is the number of the qliphoth, the unbalanced residue cast off by, and therefore outside, the ten
Sephiroth, but man has to triumph over these unbalanced forces in his own nature before he can become a master
magician. In order to do this he first has to evoke the qliphoth, which he does by formulating the averse pentagram
(the Star of Set) after he has established his magical supremacy by balancing within himself the five elements
represented by the upright pentagram (the Star of Nuit). The magician is himself the eleventh, because he is forever
outside and beyond the operation of the ten (i.e. the two pentagrams).Now Grant's response made me feel a little more at ease because I can understand how one would invoke the darker forces in order to master them, not unlike calling upon ALL the demons in the Abramelin operation. But still, I was left a little uneasy by the whole thing just because, like Fortune mentions, the fact of 11 being the number of the Qliphoth is never mentioned in Crowley's writing, at least not to my knowledge or written in any sort of clear way that I have picked up on. From this, I must admit, I was kind of left with the feeling like: 'Whoa, what have I gotten myself into.' I remain dedicated to the Great Work but feel that I may need some clarification on this.
The main reason that I came to use Crowley's system was that in the beginning of my occult career I was involved in Chaos Magick. In the beginning, I got in WAY over my head and got burnt so to speak by the forces I was so irresponsibly toying with. As a result of my irresponsibility, I was left with a great deal of due consequences that I had not bargained for and spent a few years cleaning up the psychic and karmic debris. As a result of this process, I became much more cautious with what I dabbled with and always kept my motives in check. My direction became much more spiritually minded rather than seeking out methods for material gain or personal power. Eventually I came upon Crowley and rather quickly found his methods to be an exceedingly effective system of spiritual attainment. From this point I became (and still am) OBSESSED with Crowley's work, and marvel at the other-worldly magnitude of his genius. Now it has been years that I have been studying and practicing Crowley's methods and I stand as a witness to their effectiveness. STILL! I have always tried to remain cautious and has it happened that I have wandered in over my head again by dealing with a system based upon the (triumph over the?) residue of creation?
Please forgive me if I have misunderstood or remain ignorant of any essential facts. I feel that this topic is one that may need clarification to correct any misconceptions and ease doubts. What are the dangers that the Magickian faces in working in a system such as Crowley's? What does a system based around ten lack in comparison to Crowley's system? Was it Liber AL that announced this move to a system based around eleven when it announced that ABRAHADABRA was the word of the Aeon? Is the Aeon of Horus the Aeon where man finally confronts and gains mastery over the Qliphoth?
I look forward to hearing what any of you may have to offer on this subject.
Love is the Law, love under will.
A few points on Grant's work:
Grant is a poet. It is through poetry that he came to know of Crowley, he heard of him through Dylan Thomas, whi was similarly influenced by Victor Neuberg.
Grant has made it clear that to him occultism, especially gematria, is an inspired creative art, not a dry mathematical pseudo-science.
Anything is grist to his mill, including halves of quotations (Ten and not eleven) and the gematria of students, usually unchecked.
As a result of the 100+ gematria errors in Outside The Circles Of Time, I was asked to check the gematria in Hecate's Fountain by the editor, the late Chris Johnson (who subsequently took the credit).
There were so many errors that Johnson refused to show them all to Grant, but couldn't ignore the basic blunder of IXAXAAR=333, this being a central part of the book.
IXAXAAR is clearly Greek, it is from a Greek manuscript, and although IXAXAA adds up to 133, whoever provided the analysis must have got carried away, so that when he or she got as far as 133 they saw the R, remembered that Resh =200 and went "333! Wow!". An understandable error, given the amount of time we spend on Hebrew gematria. Unfortunately while Resh = 200, the Greek letter Rho = 100 so it doesn't work. Out of desperation I suggested a Hebrew transliteration of IShAShAAR, which does equal 333 but pretends that you would have two alephs in a row in Hebrew, which makes no sense (neither does Xi being Shin rather than Cheth).
My despairing IShAShAAR version got into the book, Grant thanked Johnson for his valuable contribution and loads of other gematria errors remained.
In spite of this, and Grant's inordinate fondness of Dion Fortune, whose work I really don't like, I really admire him. He has put the fire back into an increasingly dry system. He has reminded us that Thelema is more than just the AA, the OTO and study and ritual. He is a 24/7 Thelemite.
And no, I am not a member of the Typhonian Order and never have been, and in fact was introduced and initiated into Thelema by a 6th degree ex-Typhonian member who had stormed out of it!
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Do what thou wilt shall be the whole of the Law.
I was reading through that ol' maniac Kenneth Grant's Aleister Crowley and the Hidden God the other day and I came upon this curious quote from Dion Fortune regarding Crowley's Thelemic Magick:
Crowley's Magick is valuable to the student, but only the advanced student could use it with profit. The formulae, too, on which he works, would be considered averse and evil by occultists accustomed to the Qabalistic tradition, for he uses 11 instead of 10 as the basis of his battery of knocks, in the magical ceremonies, and 11 is the number of the Qliphoth. No hint of this is given in the text, and it is an ugly trap for the unwary student.
To be honest, I was a bit taken aback by this. I had no idea as my understanding of the Qliphoth is very limited. Grant goes on to add:
It is true that eleven is the number of the qliphoth, the unbalanced residue cast off by, and therefore outside, the ten
Sephiroth, but man has to triumph over these unbalanced forces in his own nature before he can become a master
magician. In order to do this he first has to evoke the qliphoth, which he does by formulating the averse pentagram
(the Star of Set) after he has established his magical supremacy by balancing within himself the five elements
represented by the upright pentagram (the Star of Nuit). The magician is himself the eleventh, because he is forever
outside and beyond the operation of the ten (i.e. the two pentagrams).Now Grant's response made me feel a little more at ease because I can understand how one would invoke the darker forces in order to master them, not unlike calling upon ALL the demons in the Abramelin operation. But still, I was left a little uneasy by the whole thing just because, like Fortune mentions, the fact of 11 being the number of the Qliphoth is never mentioned in Crowley's writing, at least not to my knowledge or written in any sort of clear way that I have picked up on. From this, I must admit, I was kind of left with the feeling like: 'Whoa, what have I gotten myself into.' I remain dedicated to the Great Work but feel that I may need some clarification on this.
The main reason that I came to use Crowley's system was that in the beginning of my occult career I was involved in Chaos Magick. In the beginning, I got in WAY over my head and got burnt so to speak by the forces I was so irresponsibly toying with. As a result of my irresponsibility, I was left with a great deal of due consequences that I had not bargained for and spent a few years cleaning up the psychic and karmic debris. As a result of this process, I became much more cautious with what I dabbled with and always kept my motives in check. My direction became much more spiritually minded rather than seeking out methods for material gain or personal power. Eventually I came upon Crowley and rather quickly found his methods to be an exceedingly effective system of spiritual attainment. From this point I became (and still am) OBSESSED with Crowley's work, and marvel at the other-worldly magnitude of his genius. Now it has been years that I have been studying and practicing Crowley's methods and I stand as a witness to their effectiveness. STILL! I have always tried to remain cautious and has it happened that I have wandered in over my head again by dealing with a system based upon the (triumph over the?) residue of creation?
Please forgive me if I have misunderstood or remain ignorant of any essential facts. I feel that this topic is one that may need clarification to correct any misconceptions and ease doubts. What are the dangers that the Magickian faces in working in a system such as Crowley's? What does a system based around ten lack in comparison to Crowley's system? Was it Liber AL that announced this move to a system based around eleven when it announced that ABRAHADABRA was the word of the Aeon? Is the Aeon of Horus the Aeon where man finally confronts and gains mastery over the Qliphoth?
I look forward to hearing what any of you may have to offer on this subject.
Love is the Law, love under will.
-
Do what thou wilt shall be the whole of the Law.
I was reading through that ol' maniac Kenneth Grant's Aleister Crowley and the Hidden God the other day and I came upon this curious quote from Dion Fortune regarding Crowley's Thelemic Magick:
Crowley's Magick is valuable to the student, but only the advanced student could use it with profit. The formulae, too, on which he works, would be considered averse and evil by occultists accustomed to the Qabalistic tradition, for he uses 11 instead of 10 as the basis of his battery of knocks, in the magical ceremonies, and 11 is the number of the Qliphoth. No hint of this is given in the text, and it is an ugly trap for the unwary student.
To be honest, I was a bit taken aback by this. I had no idea as my understanding of the Qliphoth is very limited. Grant goes on to add:
It is true that eleven is the number of the qliphoth, the unbalanced residue cast off by, and therefore outside, the ten
Sephiroth, but man has to triumph over these unbalanced forces in his own nature before he can become a master
magician. In order to do this he first has to evoke the qliphoth, which he does by formulating the averse pentagram
(the Star of Set) after he has established his magical supremacy by balancing within himself the five elements
represented by the upright pentagram (the Star of Nuit). The magician is himself the eleventh, because he is forever
outside and beyond the operation of the ten (i.e. the two pentagrams).Now Grant's response made me feel a little more at ease because I can understand how one would invoke the darker forces in order to master them, not unlike calling upon ALL the demons in the Abramelin operation. But still, I was left a little uneasy by the whole thing just because, like Fortune mentions, the fact of 11 being the number of the Qliphoth is never mentioned in Crowley's writing, at least not to my knowledge or written in any sort of clear way that I have picked up on. From this, I must admit, I was kind of left with the feeling like: 'Whoa, what have I gotten myself into.' I remain dedicated to the Great Work but feel that I may need some clarification on this.
The main reason that I came to use Crowley's system was that in the beginning of my occult career I was involved in Chaos Magick. In the beginning, I got in WAY over my head and got burnt so to speak by the forces I was so irresponsibly toying with. As a result of my irresponsibility, I was left with a great deal of due consequences that I had not bargained for and spent a few years cleaning up the psychic and karmic debris. As a result of this process, I became much more cautious with what I dabbled with and always kept my motives in check. My direction became much more spiritually minded rather than seeking out methods for material gain or personal power. Eventually I came upon Crowley and rather quickly found his methods to be an exceedingly effective system of spiritual attainment. From this point I became (and still am) OBSESSED with Crowley's work, and marvel at the other-worldly magnitude of his genius. Now it has been years that I have been studying and practicing Crowley's methods and I stand as a witness to their effectiveness. STILL! I have always tried to remain cautious and has it happened that I have wandered in over my head again by dealing with a system based upon the (triumph over the?) residue of creation?
Please forgive me if I have misunderstood or remain ignorant of any essential facts. I feel that this topic is one that may need clarification to correct any misconceptions and ease doubts. What are the dangers that the Magickian faces in working in a system such as Crowley's? What does a system based around ten lack in comparison to Crowley's system? Was it Liber AL that announced this move to a system based around eleven when it announced that ABRAHADABRA was the word of the Aeon? Is the Aeon of Horus the Aeon where man finally confronts and gains mastery over the Qliphoth?
I look forward to hearing what any of you may have to offer on this subject.
Love is the Law, love under will.
I don't know much about Grant.
However, in "the Magickal Revival", Grant cites Albert Churchward and says that the sun revolves around Sirius every 26,000 years.
Which is fascinating, until you realize that Sirius A is only about twice the mass of the sun (and Sirius B is only about equal to the mass of the Sun)... much too small for the Sun to be revolving around...
So, he's fun to read, but I don't see how I could take him that Siriusly...
-
Do what thou wilt shall be the whole of the Law.
I was reading through that ol' maniac Kenneth Grant's Aleister Crowley and the Hidden God the other day and I came upon this curious quote from Dion Fortune regarding Crowley's Thelemic Magick:
Crowley's Magick is valuable to the student, but only the advanced student could use it with profit. The formulae, too, on which he works, would be considered averse and evil by occultists accustomed to the Qabalistic tradition, for he uses 11 instead of 10 as the basis of his battery of knocks, in the magical ceremonies, and 11 is the number of the Qliphoth. No hint of this is given in the text, and it is an ugly trap for the unwary student.
To be honest, I was a bit taken aback by this. I had no idea as my understanding of the Qliphoth is very limited. Grant goes on to add:
It is true that eleven is the number of the qliphoth, the unbalanced residue cast off by, and therefore outside, the ten
Sephiroth, but man has to triumph over these unbalanced forces in his own nature before he can become a master
magician. In order to do this he first has to evoke the qliphoth, which he does by formulating the averse pentagram
(the Star of Set) after he has established his magical supremacy by balancing within himself the five elements
represented by the upright pentagram (the Star of Nuit). The magician is himself the eleventh, because he is forever
outside and beyond the operation of the ten (i.e. the two pentagrams).Now Grant's response made me feel a little more at ease because I can understand how one would invoke the darker forces in order to master them, not unlike calling upon ALL the demons in the Abramelin operation. But still, I was left a little uneasy by the whole thing just because, like Fortune mentions, the fact of 11 being the number of the Qliphoth is never mentioned in Crowley's writing, at least not to my knowledge or written in any sort of clear way that I have picked up on. From this, I must admit, I was kind of left with the feeling like: 'Whoa, what have I gotten myself into.' I remain dedicated to the Great Work but feel that I may need some clarification on this.
The main reason that I came to use Crowley's system was that in the beginning of my occult career I was involved in Chaos Magick. In the beginning, I got in WAY over my head and got burnt so to speak by the forces I was so irresponsibly toying with. As a result of my irresponsibility, I was left with a great deal of due consequences that I had not bargained for and spent a few years cleaning up the psychic and karmic debris. As a result of this process, I became much more cautious with what I dabbled with and always kept my motives in check. My direction became much more spiritually minded rather than seeking out methods for material gain or personal power. Eventually I came upon Crowley and rather quickly found his methods to be an exceedingly effective system of spiritual attainment. From this point I became (and still am) OBSESSED with Crowley's work, and marvel at the other-worldly magnitude of his genius. Now it has been years that I have been studying and practicing Crowley's methods and I stand as a witness to their effectiveness. STILL! I have always tried to remain cautious and has it happened that I have wandered in over my head again by dealing with a system based upon the (triumph over the?) residue of creation?
Please forgive me if I have misunderstood or remain ignorant of any essential facts. I feel that this topic is one that may need clarification to correct any misconceptions and ease doubts. What are the dangers that the Magickian faces in working in a system such as Crowley's? What does a system based around ten lack in comparison to Crowley's system? Was it Liber AL that announced this move to a system based around eleven when it announced that ABRAHADABRA was the word of the Aeon? Is the Aeon of Horus the Aeon where man finally confronts and gains mastery over the Qliphoth?
I look forward to hearing what any of you may have to offer on this subject.
Love is the Law, love under will.
-
Do what thou wilt shall be the whole of the Law.
I was reading through that ol' maniac Kenneth Grant's Aleister Crowley and the Hidden God the other day and I came upon this curious quote from Dion Fortune regarding Crowley's Thelemic Magick:
Crowley's Magick is valuable to the student, but only the advanced student could use it with profit. The formulae, too, on which he works, would be considered averse and evil by occultists accustomed to the Qabalistic tradition, for he uses 11 instead of 10 as the basis of his battery of knocks, in the magical ceremonies, and 11 is the number of the Qliphoth. No hint of this is given in the text, and it is an ugly trap for the unwary student.
To be honest, I was a bit taken aback by this. I had no idea as my understanding of the Qliphoth is very limited. Grant goes on to add:
It is true that eleven is the number of the qliphoth, the unbalanced residue cast off by, and therefore outside, the ten
Sephiroth, but man has to triumph over these unbalanced forces in his own nature before he can become a master
magician. In order to do this he first has to evoke the qliphoth, which he does by formulating the averse pentagram
(the Star of Set) after he has established his magical supremacy by balancing within himself the five elements
represented by the upright pentagram (the Star of Nuit). The magician is himself the eleventh, because he is forever
outside and beyond the operation of the ten (i.e. the two pentagrams).Now Grant's response made me feel a little more at ease because I can understand how one would invoke the darker forces in order to master them, not unlike calling upon ALL the demons in the Abramelin operation. But still, I was left a little uneasy by the whole thing just because, like Fortune mentions, the fact of 11 being the number of the Qliphoth is never mentioned in Crowley's writing, at least not to my knowledge or written in any sort of clear way that I have picked up on. From this, I must admit, I was kind of left with the feeling like: 'Whoa, what have I gotten myself into.' I remain dedicated to the Great Work but feel that I may need some clarification on this.
The main reason that I came to use Crowley's system was that in the beginning of my occult career I was involved in Chaos Magick. In the beginning, I got in WAY over my head and got burnt so to speak by the forces I was so irresponsibly toying with. As a result of my irresponsibility, I was left with a great deal of due consequences that I had not bargained for and spent a few years cleaning up the psychic and karmic debris. As a result of this process, I became much more cautious with what I dabbled with and always kept my motives in check. My direction became much more spiritually minded rather than seeking out methods for material gain or personal power. Eventually I came upon Crowley and rather quickly found his methods to be an exceedingly effective system of spiritual attainment. From this point I became (and still am) OBSESSED with Crowley's work, and marvel at the other-worldly magnitude of his genius. Now it has been years that I have been studying and practicing Crowley's methods and I stand as a witness to their effectiveness. STILL! I have always tried to remain cautious and has it happened that I have wandered in over my head again by dealing with a system based upon the (triumph over the?) residue of creation?
Please forgive me if I have misunderstood or remain ignorant of any essential facts. I feel that this topic is one that may need clarification to correct any misconceptions and ease doubts. What are the dangers that the Magickian faces in working in a system such as Crowley's? What does a system based around ten lack in comparison to Crowley's system? Was it Liber AL that announced this move to a system based around eleven when it announced that ABRAHADABRA was the word of the Aeon? Is the Aeon of Horus the Aeon where man finally confronts and gains mastery over the Qliphoth?
I look forward to hearing what any of you may have to offer on this subject.
Love is the Law, love under will.
Isn't there a specific place in Crowley's system where an investigation of the Qliphoth is recommended: Liber Carcerorum?
i.e., yes, Crowley does recommend some dealing with the Qliphoth at some stage, but it's a defined stage clearly laid out in his teaching, not hidden like some "booby trap". IIRC a few other writers on Magick have said something like this, but I think it's just nonsense reflecting either their own fear of initiation or their need to pitch their books to a certain type of gullible audience in order to make money.
And as Jim has said, in actual fact Fortune *was *a Crowley fan, but felt it wasn't appropriate to fully stand by him in her writings. It seems rather mercenary of her, but then again, on the other hand, her writings are a great gateway into this stuff for many people, and their lack of Crowley-lauding meant her work wasn't in any danger of being interfered with.
-
Do what thou wilt shall be the whole of the Law.
I was reading through that ol' maniac Kenneth Grant's Aleister Crowley and the Hidden God the other day and I came upon this curious quote from Dion Fortune regarding Crowley's Thelemic Magick:
Crowley's Magick is valuable to the student, but only the advanced student could use it with profit. The formulae, too, on which he works, would be considered averse and evil by occultists accustomed to the Qabalistic tradition, for he uses 11 instead of 10 as the basis of his battery of knocks, in the magical ceremonies, and 11 is the number of the Qliphoth. No hint of this is given in the text, and it is an ugly trap for the unwary student.
To be honest, I was a bit taken aback by this. I had no idea as my understanding of the Qliphoth is very limited. Grant goes on to add:
It is true that eleven is the number of the qliphoth, the unbalanced residue cast off by, and therefore outside, the ten
Sephiroth, but man has to triumph over these unbalanced forces in his own nature before he can become a master
magician. In order to do this he first has to evoke the qliphoth, which he does by formulating the averse pentagram
(the Star of Set) after he has established his magical supremacy by balancing within himself the five elements
represented by the upright pentagram (the Star of Nuit). The magician is himself the eleventh, because he is forever
outside and beyond the operation of the ten (i.e. the two pentagrams).Now Grant's response made me feel a little more at ease because I can understand how one would invoke the darker forces in order to master them, not unlike calling upon ALL the demons in the Abramelin operation. But still, I was left a little uneasy by the whole thing just because, like Fortune mentions, the fact of 11 being the number of the Qliphoth is never mentioned in Crowley's writing, at least not to my knowledge or written in any sort of clear way that I have picked up on. From this, I must admit, I was kind of left with the feeling like: 'Whoa, what have I gotten myself into.' I remain dedicated to the Great Work but feel that I may need some clarification on this.
The main reason that I came to use Crowley's system was that in the beginning of my occult career I was involved in Chaos Magick. In the beginning, I got in WAY over my head and got burnt so to speak by the forces I was so irresponsibly toying with. As a result of my irresponsibility, I was left with a great deal of due consequences that I had not bargained for and spent a few years cleaning up the psychic and karmic debris. As a result of this process, I became much more cautious with what I dabbled with and always kept my motives in check. My direction became much more spiritually minded rather than seeking out methods for material gain or personal power. Eventually I came upon Crowley and rather quickly found his methods to be an exceedingly effective system of spiritual attainment. From this point I became (and still am) OBSESSED with Crowley's work, and marvel at the other-worldly magnitude of his genius. Now it has been years that I have been studying and practicing Crowley's methods and I stand as a witness to their effectiveness. STILL! I have always tried to remain cautious and has it happened that I have wandered in over my head again by dealing with a system based upon the (triumph over the?) residue of creation?
Please forgive me if I have misunderstood or remain ignorant of any essential facts. I feel that this topic is one that may need clarification to correct any misconceptions and ease doubts. What are the dangers that the Magickian faces in working in a system such as Crowley's? What does a system based around ten lack in comparison to Crowley's system? Was it Liber AL that announced this move to a system based around eleven when it announced that ABRAHADABRA was the word of the Aeon? Is the Aeon of Horus the Aeon where man finally confronts and gains mastery over the Qliphoth?
I look forward to hearing what any of you may have to offer on this subject.
Love is the Law, love under will.
@gurugeorge said
"Isn't there a specific place in Crowley's system where an investigation of the Qliphoth is recommended: Liber Carcerorum?"
That work itself is part of the 3=8 curriculum. However, there are no assignments regarding it and no tests required, other than the general 3=8 instruction to complete one's Qabalistic knowledge.
The final exam of the 1=10, after other astral tests have been passed, has always been to investigate the Q'lippoth of one's own Sun-sign.