advice re: Student phase and testing
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@RifRaf said
"For which? Frater 939's?
Be careful with this one. I am not trying to disrespect the guy, but it seems that he wants people to do his Will and not their own. Other information I found on him is here:
www.heruraha.net/viewtopic.php?t=2726"
That Paul Joseph Rovelli's lineage, not Fr. 939's.
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@RifRaf said
"For which? Frater 939's?
EDITED (see next two posts)
Be careful with this one. I am not trying to disrespect the guy, but it seems that he wants people to do his Will and not their own. Other information I found on him is here:
www.heruraha.net/viewtopic.php?t=2726"
hm..well that's not un-thelemic at all (ahem..sarcasm)
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hi everyone! I'm new and i have a question to start my membership off.
i would like to do everything correctly, and although I have a pretty long metaphysical and spiritual background I dont have any practical specifically western magickal experience.
that said I want to know where to start; So my main question is,before one does any ritual at all even the lesser banishing rituals, must or should one read all the books in teh student syllabus first? and only then try a ritual out?
or is it OK to try some simple ones while you are studying in your student period? i don't want to get any bad habits or do anything stupid.
thanks so much for your help!
i am also on lashtal too if you are wondering . same name. thanks in advance!
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@christibrany said
"before one does any ritual at all even the lesser banishing rituals, must or should one read all the books in teh student syllabus first? and only then try a ritual out?"
Not necessary at all.
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hi again
im still trying to figure out how to start out with magick.my main question is since it seems that maknig your own magickal tools is the best option, when is it appropriate to do so? I see that you should start with the LBRP and I want to do that, but then I see contradictorally that the wand and other tools should only be made as part of certain grades that i am not a part of. so how does one do the rituals when one is not for example a philsophus and thus hasnt crafted a wand?
does it matter doing the tool construction in the grade order?
thanks again...would like to start properly soon....
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and PS i am not around any other people interested in this so it would be self initiation anyway...
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@christibrany said
"hi again
im still trying to figure out how to start out with magick.my main question is since it seems that maknig your own magical tools is the best option, when is it appropriate to do so? I see that you should start with the LBRP and I want to do that, but then I see contradictorally that the wand and other tools should only be made as part of certain grades that i am not a part of. so how does one do the rituals when one is not for example a philsophus and thus hasnt crafted a wand?
does it matter doing the tool construction in the grade order?
thanks again...would like to start properly soon...."
The situation with the Magickal Weapons being made at certain grades is more a thing to do with the A:.A:. course specifically, and there are some things that are a bit secret about that AFAIK. If you're just working on your own, I wouldn't worry about it too much - it's nice to have at least a Magickal Wand to do ritual work, but until such time as you do make contact with the A:.A:., you can just use your intuition to craft or buy or find things that *inspire *you (e.g. cut a wand out of an appropriate tree branch you might find, buy a cup that strikes your fancy in an antique shop, etc., etc., etc.)
I wouldn't worry *too *much about consistency and precision as a solitary practitioner - it's more about inspiration and enthusiasm and trying things out. Have fun, experiment, follow your heart. As you are now, you are a free agent.
Should you make contact with the A:.A:., *then *would be the time to be extremely consistent and precise, *then *you would be bound (by the terms of your own Oath) to obey certain specific rules and instructions to the letter.
FWIW
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thanks for the response. should be 'thanks again' since i appreciated it when i saw it but i was lazy and didnt post. but it did help!
i came in today cuz i got an email about a PM and i log in and theres nothing htere. makes no sense..
as far as initiation and student phase, i got an offer to initiate into the temple in california, the one from the northern California lineage but i am still in my reading phase, lots to read! o_O i also got a offer to call someone named David Cherubim but im not sure which one i want to take. does anyone have any information? should i post this somewhere else forum wise? thanks again though!
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@christibrany said
"i came in today cuz i got an email about a PM and i log in and theres nothing htere. makes no sense.."
That happens whenever the person sending the PM deletes it before you read it. Their sending it triggers the notice - but they can delete it before you get there.
In this particular case, I imagine it was from a spammer who registered on the forum overnight and started spamming PMs. I wiped that account this morning, and it would have deleted any PMs he sent.
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@Allogenes said
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"so how does one do the rituals when one is not for example a philsophus and thus hasnt crafted a wand? "Use your index finger."
True enough.
But also: One would have one or many wands LONG before Philosophus. The Neophyte needs a whole complement of implements / weapons to do the major magical operations that dominate most of that grade. It just isn't THE wand, the Fire Wand of the major weapon set, etc. But one usually makes (and discards or archives) many tools over the course of a career.
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@Jim Eshelman said
"But one usually makes (and discards or archives) many tools over the course of a career."
This is orthogonal to the discussion, but it's a question that I've had for years: how does one discard or archive a magical tool? -
@gmugmble said
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@Jim Eshelman said
"But one usually makes (and discards or archives) many tools over the course of a career."
This is orthogonal to the discussion, but it's a question that I've had for years: how does one discard or archive a magical tool?"You should desecrate it. That is, do a kind of reverse-consecration to revert it to a profane device, and psychologically release it.
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@gmugmble said
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@Jim Eshelman said
"But one usually makes (and discards or archives) many tools over the course of a career."
This is orthogonal to the discussion, but it's a question that I've had for years: how does one discard or archive a magical tool?"As far as I understand the nature of the tools, they are just symbols and a means of externalizing an internal force. To move on to a more refined and precise tool would be like changing a motto as your aspirations define themselves better. It really matters not what you do with the old ones at this time because your focus has moved on to the new one. It seems like a sort of transmutation.
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93
"93
Quote:
so how does one do the rituals when one is not for example a philsophus and thus hasnt crafted a wand?Use your index finger.
93 93/93
"that what i was going to say, and you can use it for an atheme, and your palm as a cup, but id rather get a clean one from the cabbnet before i use the last resort palm, and if you havent made a pantacle, or a symbol that represents the earth element, you can use just a regular pentagram, weather a pendant from a necklace, wood, or if you weave one out of vines, dont matter. (but keep in mind to use these if {proper} tools are not available at the time, because of course it would be better to use them), and actually if you get good enough one day you wont need any tools(props), just your mind
."As far as I understand the nature of the tools, they are just symbols and a means of externalizing an internal force. To move on to a more refined and precise tool would be like changing a motto as your aspirations define themselves better. It really matters not what you do with the old ones at this time because your focus has moved on to the new one. It seems like a sort of transmutation."
or you can wrap the tool in a white cloth and barry it under a tree or somewhere in nature as a gift when your done with it, or pass it on to some what else, if it feals right to do so ofcourse
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@Jim Eshelman said
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@Allogenes said
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"so how does one do the rituals when one is not for example a philsophus and thus hasnt crafted a wand? "Use your index finger."
True enough.
But also: One would have one or many wands LONG before Philosophus. The Neophyte needs a whole complement of implements / weapons to do the major magical operations that dominate most of that grade. It just isn't THE wand, the Fire Wand of the major weapon set, etc. But one usually makes (and discards or archives) many tools over the course of a career."
thanks for that- i have constructed one out of an old drum stick. i figure i have a lot of energy invested in that particular item already and it is a power item for me, and furthermore i read that the wand evolved out of the shamans drum stick anyway (they think) so that was fun. i sanded it and then used a type of rubber tape to put a single quartz shaft on the end for sending out energy and storing it. i have done no reading on the subject i was just using my intuition and what felt right.
does the use of hickory wood, and the application of quartz crystal on the end to a point of the wand add any effect or purpose? or was my intuition just being aesthetic?also, if one makes many tools over the course of grades, what is the purpose f the specific order to create a wand at the grade of philosophus?
thanks again- love this forum
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wow, never heard of a drumstick wand lol, but hey if it works for now, but different orders have their different methods of creating tools perse, but for something simple and traditional, collect a branch the size from your elbow to wrist, or palm (but traditionaly the wrist) from an oak, cherry or whatever magickal tree, not a bush tree, willow is good for beginners, and cut it fresh, dont get it from the ground(you can, but may or may not have as much life in it).
and stones on the end is a personal choice unless you are following a specific method, like the rainbow wand for instance does not have a stone, but it depends on the design of the wand to hanlde whatever specific energies the practitioner wants, and how the energy is manipulated as it shoots out, like a spiral carved up to the tip will get the energy to move along that path(if imagined so), but stone are a nice addition, especially quarts since (scientifically proven) they have their own natural energetic heart beat perse.
but wands are usually atrributed to fire, the will, not sure about philosophus.and try to drill a whole at the tip and put hot clue in it, then put a stone that fits, better then tape
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is there some specific colour that one should or usually paints their sole or main wand? or is natural hickory colour in this instance just as powerful?
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@christibrany said
"is there some specific colour that one should or usually paints their sole or main wand? or is natural hickory colour in this instance just as powerful?"
We are told in Magick that the Wand is to be continually rubbed down with oil of Abramelin. When this is done the Wand takes on a rustic fiery orange color.
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in the same vein, as a solitary Student level person, is consecration of tools necessary for them to work to their fullest potential? Or is that just a subconscious thing?
I would like to follow the 'rules' as far as the AA but since i am not near an official group and have no real interest in joining the Caliphate OTO which is the closest thing, but still liking the AA, I want to do it 'right' . As far as starting with good habits and learning new skills in magic. thanks again
i am still trying to figure out how to practice the basic student rituals like LBRP mainly and such while livin with parent. Going outside is tough cuz its middle of winter with snow. such is life.