Searching for what feels like Home
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You misjudge me.
My depression (and the chaos that ensued) stemmed from a failed relationship at the age of 18 a very serious one. I won't get into it for it is very personal but i can honestly say it was the lowest part of my life but i have already transmuted it to the most positive aspect. My fall (and recovery) was so i can understand and help my friends to their feet when they fall. And i have done that.
I have no idea where you got "leaping over the bits we find difficult" so I'll refrain from retorting and just laugh
i have done much work in the last few years specifically (this is almost ironic) in what you addressed. (which i completely agree with)"learning to comprehend and deal with them is a major part of what magical training entails, in the first few years."
My desire to get off the grid does not stem from my want to escape reality. Nor am i trying to run from society. Nor do i Hate society. I LOVE NATURE i am in love with the outdoors and i want to Work and LIVE off the LAND. To have a personal relationship with it. Its funny you consider my words odd, i happen to find your words "any serious fraternity" ODD
(I'm pretty sure quite a few monasteries would disagree) many of which are self sufficient and thus off the gridI laugh (with love) at myself for my previous wording "distractions of material living" i should have expanded. your interpretation is completely correct without my complete explanation which is thus
I should have just said i wish to rid myself of all my "money" and what we ODDLY call "POSSESSIONS" which is VERY ODD to most people
but i embrace my oddity and love myself and my "odd nature"
I'm sure Jesus was very ODD to most people just as Gandhi was Odd but its funny how the oddest people seem to make the most impact on the world...All my wants stem from LOVE and not FEAR
I guess i want to know if anyone else feels the same as i do.
PS: Don't take my laughing or opposing view the wrong way i mean no harm
or disrespect -
93,
I'm sure there are other people who feel the same way you do - most of us do, at times. But magical orders don't usually have rural monasteries for you to enter. Cefalu was an exception.
"I should have just said i wish to rid myself of all my "money" and what we ODDLY call "POSSESSIONS" which is VERY ODD to most people
but i embrace my oddity and love myself and my "odd nature"
I'm sure Jesus was very ODD to most people just as Gandhi was Odd but its funny how the oddest people seem to make the most impact on the world... "A lot of odd people also make no impact whatsoever, beyond impressing other people with their oddity. Magicians, though, usually value money as a magical tool for expressing their will. A starving magician with no roof over his head can't actually do much magick. Perhaps you should try living off the grid for a while, then look into magick later.
93 93/93,
Edward
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@Edward Mason said
"93, Perhaps you should try living off the grid for a while, then look into magick later.
93 93/93,
Edward"
Or, Edward, if you want, I'm sure there are plenty of people in this world willing to help you in your task to abandon your personal wealth.
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Takamba 93,
Cute. Money might be 'frozen energy,' but it seems to thaw very easily, and maintaining control of a sufficient flow of it can be one of the hardest things in the world. I've never suffered from a shortage of financial institutions, government agencies and individuals willing to help redirect my own flow.
Oddly, I don't think anyone's ever asked me to contribute to a wilderness theurgic ashram along the lines of AquarianRenegade's hopes. Not that I'm in a position to help them anyway, but the notion of a new Cefalu does seem to come up in alcoholically fueled discussions, then fades away again in the cold, gray light of sobriety. The cost of starting and running such a place would be astronomical, and most of the groups that have tried it end up spending much of their time earning the money to pay for the upkeep.
93 93/93,
Edward
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There seems to be this underlying idea that one needs to rid onself of their desire for money and material things in order to be a true initiate or student or whatever one decides to be. Based on my experience, there's no virtue in being broke. I used to think I had to rid myself of my desire for money so I could be more "spiritual". That line of thinking sent me spiralling into financial oblivion which I am cleaning up right now and it SUCKS.
You basically need money or SOMETHING to offer the world without in exchange for the satisfaction of your basic physical needs (food, shelter, clothing.) Without this, you will be useless to yourself and others.
Perhaps you can do something that will generate enough income for you to take massive time off to do your magickal work. Something so substantial that you can afford to take weeks even months off without taking the slightest financial loss. If you are proficient in transformation work then perhaps you can offer your service to others in exchange for enough money for you get all of your "Malkuthian" affairs in order for you to begin undertaking greater work.
Maybe that could be your project while you're off the grid
I say it with love and friendly jest 
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Its not so much about being broke. Ridding yourself of all possessions doesn't accomplish anything in it self. But to build your own shelter with your own hands (something i know Free Masons practice). To Plow the land, plant the seed and reap the harvest. To have a personal relationship with nature where we are dependent on her and she is dependent on us. This is the true role of mankind while we are on this sphere. The services We would be providing would be to ourselves for survival. To chop wood and stack it for the winter so we don't freeze. To go identify and collect plants/herbs for their medicinal purposes and to cultivate them more easily. Their would be no need for Money to express our will. Our will is in our hard work. Actions speak louder than words (whether spoken or written). Money is just paper with written words on it; as useful as tinder. If it wasn't for the huge Gangs we call Government (funny how successful street gangs model themselves after the US government) that enforce the "value" of "money" with their guns/might; Money would be useless and worthless. The point where we are producing more than we use is a landmark where we can begin to trade for other items. That and beginning to redistribute food water clothes medicine shelter to those who are in need Free of Charge. (Pretty crazy concept huh?) And because all of this would be completely self sufficient and we aren't making any profits The government cannot tax us. Every time we hunt or fish we make a pack with that animal to take responsibility in maintaining the carrying capacity and maintaining their numbers. Which shouldn't be hard since we are not hunting\fishing for commercial reasons. Its relearning the basics something i believe humanity on this sphere would benefit immeasurably from...
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93,
And if all six billion of us starting living this way tomorrow, how long do you think we'd last?
Yes, I know the theory is that this approach "would save the planet's environment," but that's simply not the case. There isn't any longer enough wild game to go around, enough forests with herbs to be gathered, enough habitable land for all of us to have our little bit of it, and so on. Nor the teachers to show us how to do this.
You would have to exterminate at least half of us to make it workable (on a carefully distributed basis of slaughtering), and wait for a few decades for the forests and wildlife propulations to restabilize. So, enjoy your dream, but don't ... er, bet any money on it happening.
93 93/93,
Edward
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For ye who has little faith; there happens to be many teachers if you only stop and look. And there happens to be MORE than enough money and food to provide shelter clothes and food for EVERYONE on this world many times over.
Reality is that 100 billion pounds of food is wasted every year in the USA ALONE!!! Billions of pounds of food is dumped into the Indian Ocean because there is no "market" for it in India. Or rather they would rather have their OWN people STARVE than give away this "surplus" of food for free. They rather throw it away... (pretty shagged up huh?)
These are all real statistics. so don't come back at me with "thats BS"
50% of the All the Food in the world is WASTED and tossed into LAND FILLS. MY dream cannot happen when their so many mis-educated cynics out there. So let me say this As long as people are mis-educated and believe that the only way to save the planet is depopulation and "theres nothing we can do right now", then the weight of their guilt is lifted off their shoulders and they WILL DO NOTHING... "You may call me a Dreamer But I'm not the only one" -
@AquarianRenegade said
"For ye who has little faith; there happens to be many teachers if you only stop and look. And there happens to be MORE than enough money and food to provide shelter clothes and food for EVERYONE on this world many times over.
Reality is that 100 billion pounds of food is wasted every year in the USA ALONE!!! Billions of pounds of food is dumped into the Indian Ocean because there is no "market" for it in India. Or rather they would rather have their OWN people STARVE than give away this "surplus" of food for free. They rather throw it away... (pretty shagged up huh?)
These are all real statistics. so don't come back at me with "thats BS"
50% of the All the Food in the world is WASTED and tossed into LAND FILLS. MY dream cannot happen when their so many mis-educated cynics out there. So let me say this As long as people are mis-educated and believe that the only way to save the planet is depopulation and "theres nothing we can do right now", then the weight of their guilt is lifted off their shoulders and they WILL DO NOTHING... "You may call me a Dreamer But I'm not the only one""That 100 billion pounds of food that is wasted is food that is mass produced by cattle farms and sold to places like McDonalds. If all six billion of us went off the grid today (just going with the train of thought that Eward Mason was using), you'd have to hunt and forage and farm on your own - gathering seeds for your own harvest because there is no more that grid of seed producers for you - seeking the wild game whose populations Edward Mason claims have dwindled (and he may have sources for that) - building your own shelter from forests we all know and are told are shrinking.
I do not feel you need to feel angry because someone has told you that although living "off the grid" is possible to a degree, it is not very practical nor completely likely what happens for anyone. Even the hermits in Montana and Utah go shopping once a month and buy gasoline for their generators. Barring that, someone sells them seeds and manufactures their shotguns for them.
You've come to a Thelemic forum with your questions and as far as I know, one of the things I find in study of Thelema is that I am told that the nation I was born in and the conditions of my parentage (for example) are all conditions of the orbit that has always been a part of the Will I am to learn and master.
I like the idea someone suggested of you working real hard to get your material conditions in good and worry free order - then go on a retreat. Or perhaps do the Abramelin work. There's a good six months for ya.
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Dear Alrah,
thank you, I'm looking into it...Dear everyone else...
I fully understand where everyone is coming from. Don't mistake my passion for anger i carry no ill feelings. Edward Mason has made many great points (so have others) and i enjoy the discussion. What i speak of will not happen overnight it is a slow rebuilding process. (well first decelerating the destruction then rebuilding)
I have noticed a lot of focus on wild livestock and game. I am in no delusion that there is not enough animals left for the present demand for it. But where there are obstacles there are solutions. There are people and organizations who have collected millions of different seeds preparing for the tough times now and in the future. (world seed bank for one)
Please don't think this is off-topic but if we changed our crops to cannabis which is the most versatile growing plant in the world (the only thing that can grow anywhere in the world.) The seeds happen to be the most nutritional food source on the planet containing every essential amino acid and essential fatty acid and a perfect balance of protein carbohydrates and fat. It was historically farmed in times of great famine. It truly could feed the world and is very easy to farm. And there happens to be a large market for seeds.and again I'm really passionate that this can become a reality. Will it? at this time i say no or at least not right away. I do believe that it is possible not quite practical or even logical (for some people at least) anyways i'm done on the subject..
Thank You EVERYONE