Investigations into a monism...
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It's a long time since I read Zen and the Art of Motorcycle Maintenance.
However, doesn't Pirsig's description of descend into madness resemble Liber Liber Os Abysmi vel Daath sub figura CDLXXIV?
"Let then his reason hurl itself again and again against the blank wall of mystery which will confront him.
Thus also following is it said, and we deny it not. At last automatically his reason will take up the practice, sua sponte, and he shall have no rest therefrom.
Then will all phenomena which present themselves to him appear meaningless and disconnected, and his own Ego will break up into a series of impressions having no relation one with the other, or with any other thing.
Let this state then become so acute that it is in truth Insanity, and let this continue until exhaustion.
According to a certain deeper tendency of the individual will be the duration of this state.
It may end in real insanity, which concludes the activities of the Adept during this present life, or by his rebirth into his own body and mind with the simplicity of a little child."
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Alrah, 93,
You wrote:"What is the 'shall be?' What is the 'thou?'
The point is there is no answer! And that's it's saving grace and the way you can proceed. If there was a way you could answer all these questions, or if you for one moment think you have an answer then you are wrong!"
I see a splittable hair in this finely hirsute thread of posts, viz: I think we do get answers. The catch is, a really good answer, one of those things that finally gives a coherent response to one of the big mysteries, then poses a whole series of questions, or maybe conundrums, that move things to a new level.
I do think the Thou reveals itself - that's what we're told K&C is about. Okay sure, the Thou is 'us' or 'me' but it's also far more than that. The main point is, these are not fixed ideas or data we're referring to, but living, transforming - and transformative - energies. They address our outer, question-and-answer selves, while existing within, beyond, above and below those selves. They take us from "Why?" through "Okay, but how?" and eventually to "Ah okay - Yahoo!"
93 93/93,
Edward
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How can we say there is an answer or there is not one?
I would think the answer is just like everything else, constantly changing.
Today the "Thou" could be me, tomorrow you. While in the next nano-second it is every being in the universe.
It is kind of like discussing the color blue. We can all agree something is blue, but what that means is...
I am going to go back to my flock of Ixobalix
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Uni Verse, 93,
"How can we say there is an answer or there is not one? "
Because one appears. As noted, it is not 'the' answer but it is something that satisifes a need for understanding.
"I would think the answer is just like everything else, constantly changing.
Today the "Thou" could be me, tomorrow you. While in the next nano-second it is every being in the universe. "
I partly agree, but I think, over time, it's more stable than that. Sure, there is constant change, and the realities we discover keep on expanding. Often they expand into contradictions of what we knew, or thought we knew, before. But I see that as a progression, an ongoing dissolving of limits but not a chaotically shifting * lack *of limits.
I stress that I'm not talking about 'discovering facts' in the sense of things we could put into verbal formulations. But I don't think consciousness is turned into a chaos. All the testimonies the attained people have written indicate a state that is stable, clear, devoid of stress. Yes, its stability rests on nothing, and the clarity cannot be described and includes opacity. Sure, the lack of stress does not exclude the operations of dualities, even if those dualities are complementary and, from that awakened perspective, are in ultimate equilibrium. But I do accept that "there is that which remains," that phrase which so annoyed Crowley when he received Liber L.
There is a discernible difference, even far below the Abyss, between knowledge and understanding. That understanding, I suggest, provides the stability amid the motion.
93 93/93,
Edward
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A note: I originally read the thread title as "Investigations into a moment." Not too far off.. maybe.. possibly? Sorry if I am hijacking.
I see it as the magician becomes more stable.
Shines his own light on a thing and captures the reflection.
Process of knowing thyself.
The universe remains "chaos" being that it is everything occurring at once (which would make it equal out to 0).
The magician a fortified island.
Hadit, having a singular experience of a moment.
To sum it up: You find your answer not the answer (the latter being incommunicable).
On a personal note, I have come around in a personal spiral.
I nod very sagely like. -
@Alrah said
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@anpi said
""It may end in real insanity, which concludes the activities of the Adept during this present life, or by his rebirth into his own body and mind with the simplicity of a little child.""Note the use of 'Adept' in the last sentence.
Philosophical Yoga, in which you hurl everything against reason, and the solvable/unsolvable monisms such as 'who I am?', 'what is magick?', 'what is zen?', 'how should I live?', and now the 'shall be the whole of the Law'. Shall be. What is the 'shall be?' What is the 'thou?'
The point is there is no answer! And that's it's saving grace and the way you can proceed. If there was a way you could answer all these questions, or if you for one moment think you have an answer then you are wrong! That's NOT, and has never been the 'point' and there is no such thing as the answer/point!
Never has been. Not in this aeon or in the millenia past.
But it is a supreme path of attainment. If you want to understand then hurl yourself against this!"
Thank you for sharing this post Alrah. What answer could we hope for?
