True Will and Incarnations
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Can one's understanding of True Will develop over many incarnations - e.g. 40 lives?
I recently came across a historical figure whose details, name, life and travels really resonate with odd things I've noted about my current life - places I've felt attracted to, memories of past incarnations, my own character traits and inexplicable lifelong obsessions.
Does karma operates purely on a mechanical level, from one incarnation to the next, with past life memories getting wiped each time? Or can we become aware of a story of the self - the paying off of an old debt - that stretches across many incarnations?
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@he atlas itch said
"Can one's understanding of True Will develop over many incarnations - e.g. 40 lives? "
Sure. Of course it does. But also, its ... let's say "current vector" ... won't be the same in each incarnation.
For most practical purposes, the True Will that one is tasked with discovering and doing in a particular incarnation is a particularized expression of the larger (usually called one's 'Infinite Will').
Compare it to taking a long cross-country trip. Let's fictionalize that your True Will across many incarnations (many days of travel) is to drive from West Virginia to Southern California (as a friend recently did). For the most part, in waking up each day you can understand the underlying task, i.e., "to travel to Los Angeles, the City of Angels." You can understand that your essential method is to keep driving west. But on a given day, the "task of the day" may seem at odds with the overall task. There will be some days in which you seem to be driving too far south even though you have to to north later. But it's the distinctive task of that one leg of your journey. On other days the prevailing "task of the day" may be "to drive through the rednecked part of the rural South without getting lynched." That can superficially seem quite different from the True Will first stated, though it's hardly at odds with it.
"Does karma operates purely on a mechanical level, from one incarnation to the next, with past life memories getting wiped each time? Or can we become aware of a story of the self - the paying off of an old debt - that stretches across many incarnations?"
You can become aware, yes. And you aren't born at the starting point: Like the story above, each life starts with you already in motion, already on a course. You're just continuing it. (And it shouldn't be surprising to discover a half-eaten apple from yesterday's leg of the trip.)
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Jim said it well, but just to supplement...
From Liber Aleph:
"There are very many for whom in their present Incarnations this Great
Work may be impossible; since their appointed Work may be in
Satisfaction of some Magical Debt, or in Adjustment of some Balance, or
in Fulfilment of some Defect. As is written: Suum Cuique."This Work takes many, many incarnations to accomplish. As the saying goes, "Rome wasn't built in a day."
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@he atlas itch said
"Can one's understanding of True Will develop over many incarnations - e.g. 40 lives?
I recently came across a historical figure whose details, name, life and travels really resonate with odd things I've noted about my current life - places I've felt attracted to, memories of past incarnations, my own character traits and inexplicable lifelong obsessions.
Does karma operates purely on a mechanical level, from one incarnation to the next, with past life memories getting wiped each time? Or can we become aware of a story of the self - the paying off of an old debt - that stretches across many incarnations?"Thank you for bringing this topic up again. I'm working through some of these same issues and all the information provided helps. With me its not a historical figure but as you say, places and strong memories that can't be explained any other way in this life. Its like a personal mystery that only you can solve. For what its worth, I found that any way that I can suspend the logical mind, will help to bring memories to the surface, however unpleasant. Hope this makes sense.
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@Jim Eshelman said
"You can become aware, yes. And you aren't born at the starting point: Like the story above, each life starts with you already in motion, already on a course. You're just continuing it. (And it shouldn't be surprising to discover a half-eaten apple from yesterday's leg of the trip.)"
Or discover yourself in Bloomington, IL, when you're scheduled to give a lecture in a couple of hours in Bloomington, IN. Or realize people are speaking Spanish and you thought you were headed to Canada, and you have a pile of maps, all vaguely similar but different in detail, and a AAA "Triptych" that looks like it was written by Basil Valentinus.
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Thanks for comments. Interesting to hear about Infinite Will versus True Will. Speaking of the roadtrip analogy, I've had dreams of being pulled over by a cop, asked for my license, and not having any identification on me
Alrah – I might agree dwelling on past lives is congratulatory self-wanking if I only have memories of historically important people. But it’s a catch-22 since existing historical records are usually of important people – history is written by the winners – and therefore no records remain of a field hand who lived during the Middle Ages. That’s why piecing together the past involves exploring both the personal unconscious and sifting through historical evidence. What I’m convinced of is the signs related to one’s True Will remain constant throughout an incarnation, in recurring motifs and obsessions, sometimes physical evidence on the body, the circumstances into which one is born into, etc.
Does it matter in the here and now? Only if you think remembering your past - from childhood to present - has helped in you in any way. Dwelling on past lives merely extends the field of inquiry. The questions one tends to ask, by analogy, become bigger.
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I disagree.
Exploration of oneself and past lives is in order to ascertain True Will. If you are not aligned with your True Will, any magick you attempt will be nil or insignificant. On the other hand, if you, by accident or consciously, do magick in alignment with True Will, the results will rend your universe.
Your comments sound like an excuse to avoid work and the facts of existence. Reincarnation is one of the oldest beliefs on this planet. Buddhism became popular, not necessarily because people have an instinctive inclination toward the dharma, but because of their realization of the mechanical nature of reincarnation, that they were trapped on the wheel, and that it would take extraordinary efforts to get out of this mechanical process. To put this in Thelemic terms, knowing and doing your True Will is part of escaping the mechancial process of conditioning.
But just because you decide your fate is going to be a certain way, doesn’t mean reality caters to your whim...
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Aside from particular work assigned in particular grades etc., I generally encourage people to pursue past life exploration when they're interested. (Many are interested.)
There is a balance that has to be maintained - balance between the major legitimate value from reliably obtained memories vs. ego-grabs, fantasy, etc. etc. and so forth.
The balancing perspective I teach is: Regard all such memories as relevant, without necessarily drawing any conclusion on their authenticity. They wouldn't be arising in the mind at this juncture if they weren't relevant to the present life and its current needs; and this is true independent of whether a particular memory is authentic memory or some other kind of psychic content.
There is a time and place for agnosticism.
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Ok, a test for you.
Remote view me and report back what you see
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@Alrah said
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@he atlas itch said
"Alrah – I might agree dwelling on past lives is congratulatory self-wanking if I only have memories of historically important people. But it’s a catch-22 since existing historical records are usually of important people – history is written by the winners – and therefore no records remain of a field hand who lived during the Middle Ages. That’s why piecing together the past involves exploring both the personal unconscious and sifting through historical evidence. What I’m convinced of is the signs related to one’s True Will remain constant throughout an incarnation, in recurring motifs and obsessions, sometimes physical evidence on the body, the circumstances into which one is born into, etc.Does it matter in the here and now? Only if you think remembering your past - from childhood to present - has helped in you in any way. Dwelling on past lives merely extends the field of inquiry. The questions one tends to ask, by analogy, become bigger."
Oh, I don't think it makes much difference whether you think you were important in your last life or not unless you simply want to address the dangers of ego inflation. That's not the main 'thing'. It's the sense of continuity that the ego is attached to. 'I Am', 'I Have Been' & 'I Will Be' is comfort food for it. It's more difficult to throw the whole thing overboard and think - 'when I die I will be no more'. The ego finds it frightening. Magick threatens the ego - which is why I believe so many occults get into the whole investigation of past life themes. There seems to be an excuse for it, but really - until a person looses thier fear of not being a person then shouldn't these investigations wait?
It smells a bit 'spiritualist' to me.
"Alrah, I don't think spiritualists believe in reincarnation, their thing is contacting discarnate spirits.
Exploring one's past lifes is not about comfort. And from what I can tell, the "I" does not survive. So losing the fear of not being a person is a given. -
@he atlas itch said
"Ok, a test for you.
Remote view me and report back what you see
"lol.... careful what you give permission for...
I've had uncannily accurate key-word references to my own most private thoughts posted on Lashtal before.
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@he atlas itch said
"Ok, a test for you.
Remote view me and report back what you see
"I see you like to wear lace panties.
And is that a baby in your bathtub?
I hope you have a permit for that meth lab.