Mastering Asana
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@Jim Eshelman said
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@Alias55A said
"How does one know that they have mastered asana? I dont get the pins/needles, flaming heat energyies, or much of the nubmy legs, twiching, itchiing, and what not. In less then 5 minutes I am completely still and it feels realy good, comfortable, although my mind still chats a bit."The standard test involves being perfectly still for an hour. Balancing something on the head is a way to measure this yourself (e.g., a book or a dish of hydrochloric acid).
PS - Understand that this particular test is a test to meet an A.'.A.'. grade standard. Whether or not it represents mastering asana in a more universal sense is a separate question. One can always get better!"
Ok, so mastering it in the sense of in A.'.A.'. Standard is balancing whatever for an hour, dish or acid
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And i'm guessing in a more "universal sense", it is the ability to sit longer? -
@Alias55A said
"And who has actually used Sulpheric Acid balanced on their head?"
I much prefer sulfuric acid to hydrochloric acid; for one, it's fewer syllabus to say out loud, and two, on the occasion I spill it, the flesh-melting-off sensation is more enjoyable.
FWIW, I remember reading in some document of Crowley's, possibly the 8 Lectures on Yoga, that, when doing asana, eventually the pain becomes "intolerable," and if you continue the asana past that point, there is an ecstatic "explosion" of sorts where the position suddenly becomes sublimely comfortable, and one realizes that every other possible position is uncomfortable, while simultaneously losing consciousness of their physical body. Crowley said that after this point, that position would no longer give one trouble. I believe this comes after experiencing muscle rigidity - I'm only going by what I remember from Crowley's works, as I haven't practiced asana long enough to have experienced these phenomena yet.
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@Alias55A said
"And i'm guessing in a more "universal sense", it is the ability to sit longer?"
In a more universal sense, the standard would be: Can you sit still long enough to do whatever you actually intend to do (e.g., meditation) without your body getting in the way.
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@Jim Eshelman said
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@Alias55A said
"And i'm guessing in a more "universal sense", it is the ability to sit longer?"In a more universal sense, the standard would be: Can you sit still long enough to do whatever you actually intend to do (e.g., meditation) without your body getting in the way."
Good point. But ususally it is my mind that cant stay still long enough. You've mentioned in a previous thread, in the context of meditation, that when you get bored then bump it up a notch. Ive gotten bored with asana, I dont think Ive practice it long enough, but would it be ok to practice pranayama and or pratahara while in asana? to give me mind something to do. I dont count breaks, I do notice them, practicing putting my wandering mind back on the brow. Also, should I see if I am able to pass the AA standard test before I but it up a notch?
@ Ash:
That part in book 4 has always confused me. The reaching "That Point" when you experience bliss vs. the AA standard of balancing acid/water on your head. Are you suppose to do both? well let me rephrase that. The sitting for an hour is a requirement, ok, but does one need that blissfull experience to move on? Like is it a type of attainment one is suppose to have before moving on? -
@LPD N said
"I'm fairly certain I've some hydrochloric acid sitting next to my jar of Eye of Newt.
"Ok.?
. So does anyone "actually" use acid in place of water? seriously! I can see the logic: Oh some water spelt on me, ile try next time. Vs. Oh S**T this acid is burning me! Lets not do it again. It reminds me of when Crowley mentioned how the monks would slap the pupils if they even saw there eye twitch. Mabye through pain we make less mistakes hopefully. -
@Alias55A said
"Ok.?
. So does anyone "actually" use acid in place of water? seriously! I can see the logic: Oh some water spelt on me, ile try next time. Vs. Oh S**T this acid is burning me! Lets not do it again. It reminds me of when Crowley mentioned how the monks would slap the pupils if they even saw there eye twitch. Mabye through pain we make less mistakes hopefully."I was joking, and I am 99.99993% sure Jim is joking too (although not 100%, it's certainly possible that someone has tried this, lol).
About Book IV: I am gonna go out on a limb (i.e. no experience to back this up yet) and guess that the phenomenon Crowley speaks of is just a "milestone," as it were, that many aspirants seem to hit just as they discover that their asana is no longer difficult or uncomfortable as it was in the beginning. What Jim said makes sense to me; i.e. that the real point is: Can you sit still long enough to accomplish your goal without your body ruining it?
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@Alias55A said
"How does one know that they have mastered asana? I dont get the pins/needles, flaming heat energyies, or much of the nubmy legs, twiching, itchiing, and what not. In less then 5 minutes I am completely still and it feels realy good, comfortable, although my mind still chats a bit."
I saw i documentary some time ago which featured a mystic from india. He had been performing a form of asana non-stop for over 10 years. He was holding his left arm up in the air as a devotion to a god. The arm had become very deformed and most likely fused at the shoulder joint. That is devotion to the extreme.
Sapere Aude
LLLL
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@Alias55A said
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@LPD N said
"I'm fairly certain I've some hydrochloric acid sitting next to my jar of Eye of Newt."Ok.?
. So does anyone "actually" use acid in place of water? seriously! I can see the logic: Oh some water spelt on me, ile try next time. Vs. Oh S**T this acid is burning me! Lets not do it again. It reminds me of when Crowley mentioned how the monks would slap the pupils if they even saw there eye twitch. Mabye through pain we make less mistakes hopefully."Even if you could balance an open jar of acid on your head the vapours would likely fry your lungs and burn your eyes.
I used to acid wash swimming pools when i was younger not the best job in the world. Had to use chemical masks.Sapere Aude
LLLL
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Lol ... gets a bit scary when a joke is debated so LOL. coolaid anyone?
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Crowley's attitude to Yoga, and Asana in particular, was typical of the 19th century Western attitude to the mind/body relationship and not typical of the actual attitude of Yogis. To the Englishman who climbed mountains and crossed deserts, the body was a servant to be mastered. In Yoga it is a vehicle to be steered. The idea of holding an asana until it becomes painful is regarded by actual yogis as ridiculous and counterproductive. It was spawned by the sort of physical exercise regimes popular in the Victorian age, such as doing sit-ups with a straight back - actually very damaging to the back - becvause "straight" equalled "good" to that mindset.
Asana should be comfortable and requiring minimal effort - but just enough effort to keep the mind alert (rather than going to sleep). -
@sethur said
"Asana should be comfortable and requiring minimal effort - but just enough effort to keep the mind alert (rather than going to sleep)."
The first time you begin your practice of asana, you should be completely rigid and focused on your posture. You aren't yet learning prana or mantra - your yoga is currently only about asana. You needn't strain to do this either (but you can if you like, testing each of your muscles and ligiments in their various capacities is fun for a time), but you must be firm.
The second day you practice you will be all of the above but a little more comforted with confidence in your ability to sit straight and still. The third day you practice you will yet again become more of something and less of something else... and so on and so on until at first you were firm and focused, later you will be relaxed and undisturbed - to your mind you may believe these are two distinctly different postures on asana but they are not. The yogi who is sitting correctly in his half-lotus position telling his student to "act naturally" is not remembering that what has become "natural and relaxed" after years of practice for the yogi is not natural for the chela and will require training of a firm hand and mind to guide.
If you are first beginning your practice, your asana will have the necessity of being firm and straight in its geometries. One could discuss all the mystical line theories and chakras as a reason behind this, but I like to just keep it simple and explain that it is simply a way to prove that the mind can train the not-mind to do a thing correctly. Or to use someone's vehicle metaphor for example, I bring out The Chariot of the Tarot and explain that what we will be learning is to take the mind and body and command them by Will to get us to our journey's road.
To begin, it is your oath "To prosecute the Great Work: which is, to obtain control of the nature and powers of my own being." In short, don't sit how your body wants you to sit, sit with Will.