11 April - (Earth) Liber LXV, I:1
-
@Aegis55 said
"I find myself wanting to ask questions and discuss, but I don't really know how. Mostly, I think of interpretive questions to ask, but much has been said about not trying to approach these texts with the rational mind.
I'm at a loss for what to discuss."
Thanks for asking, and let me try to help you with that.
The purpose of this sub-forum is to share the fruits of your meditation on the daily text and any new realizations you gained from it. Not intellectual discussion, not Q&A, but actual results of a directed meditation.
In particular, it is a bhakti yoga exercise, one intended to bring you into a deeper continual remembering of the Divine One whom you most deeply adore.
OTOH, there's a place for Q&A: one of the other sub-forums (such as Magick, Mysticism, or Thelema, depending on what you are actually posting). Feel free to copy the text to a new thread and go to town on it.
One other thing - before getting into Q&A, do you have Crowley's long, important commentary on Liber LXV? That would be the starting point for understanding the text interpretively.
-
@Jim Eshelman said
"...O heart of my mother..."
A link to the Stele of Revealing.
-
@Jim Eshelman said
"
@Aegis55 said
"...The purpose of this sub-forum is to share the fruits of your meditation on the daily text and any new realizations you gained from it. Not intellectual discussion, not Q&A, but actual results of a directed meditation..."
"
I had not read this and I realise I may have stepped off with the wrong foot. I won't delete my posts - though of course I don't mind if someone else does. -
@Zafero Berr said
"
@Jim Eshelman said
"...O heart of my mother..."A link to the Stele of Revealing."
In the spirit of having a different response, and not of argument...
I've tended to respond to that passage as referring to Hadit specifically, since he is the heart (in several ways) of "my mother."
-
@Jim Eshelman said
"Thanks for asking, and let me try to help you with that.
The purpose of this sub-forum is to share the fruits of your meditation on the daily text and any new realizations you gained from it. Not intellectual discussion, not Q&A, but actual results of a directed meditation.
In particular, it is a bhakti yoga exercise, one intended to bring you into a deeper continual remembering of the Divine One whom you most deeply adore.
OTOH, there's a place for Q&A: one of the other sub-forums (such as Magick, Mysticism, or Thelema, depending on what you are actually posting). Feel free to copy the text to a new thread and go to town on it.
One other thing - before getting into Q&A, do you have Crowley's long, important commentary on Liber LXV? That would be the starting point for understanding the text interpretively."
Thanks for that. It helped me understand the appropriate direction much more clearly.
And, no, I haven't seen Crowley's "long, important" commentary, but I do appreciate a well-placed hint.
-
Reading this today, I was moved to think of the Milky Way, and the spiral patterns of galaxies forming in space. It speaks to me of also of how long it took plants to evolve so that they had flowers, and of what a flower evolves into. I can see Snake transmuting the cosmic dust of space, pulling it in and rising in form.
Just as plants grew into our beautiful flowers of today, just as our planet grew into the Glorious body of Gaia, our galaxy is too growing, and I look forward to seeing what beautiful flowers come about from this growth. -
@Aegis55 said
"And, no, I haven't seen Crowley's "long, important" commentary, but I do appreciate a well-placed hint.
"Crowley's commentary on Liber LXV is probably one of the five most important things he ever wrote.
(I'm not counting any Class A document as having been written by him.)
-
@Jim Eshelman said
"
@Aegis55 said
"And, no, I haven't seen Crowley's "long, important" commentary, but I do appreciate a well-placed hint."Crowley's commentary on Liber LXV is probably one of the five most important things he ever wrote.
(I'm not counting any Class A document as having been written by him.)"
I second that. But the one i read was mottas commentary along with crowleys, which had him contesting everything crowley had to say.
As for the passage, because of the verticle theme of it I always saw it as an invoking of kundalini, I used to recite it before rituals and it always put me in a frenzy!
-
Although I have mere knowledge of any of this, which means that I am glad I found this forum, at least to watch and listen.
I will note that this reminds me of a dream I have not posted. The dream was of 3 snakes. I was one of them. We merged. Since this is not the dream area, I will not say any more about it.
-
I wanted to go back to this, the first day. Ideas have been rolling about in my head since this passage was posted. Initially I wasn't going to add anything, but as each day passes I find myself getting more and more sucked into the journey.
@Jim Eshelman said
"I've tended to respond to that passage as referring to Hadit specifically, since he is the heart (in several ways) of "my mother.""
In broad strokes: Reading this passage it is hard not to think about the mostly apocryphal notion that the western magical tradition has its roots in Egypt—Solve et Coagula is prefigured by the dismemberment of Osiris and his reconstruction by Isis; also, and more personally significant to me, is the whole notion, central to alchemy, that hidden and slumbering in 'dead' matter is a potent spiritual perfection. Even as far back as the paleolithic period, small stone amulets in the form of beetles were coveted in Egypt. One, if not the oldest of all Egyptian gods is Kephra, the beetle god, who was venerated as the type of spontaneous manifestation and life springing from apparently dead matter (pre-Isis Aeon?)!
I read the passage and am struck by what sounds like an invocation—a supplication, and a celebration of this indwelling divinity. Even though we are the walking dead, there is a god hidden within.
**Rise, O my snake, into brilliance of bloom
On the corpse of Osiris afloat in the tomb! ****O Snake that caresses the crown of mine heart! **
If the heart is Hadit, then what is the serpent? The text says they are one. Is this the mystery of that intimate identity at the root of all—of oneself and god, or are there two entities locked in an insoluble embrace?
Love and Will
-
"O Beetle! the drone of Thy dolorous note
Be ever the trance of this tremulous throat!"A reference to Khephra, the winged beetle that carries the Sun through midnight into the morning. This really strikes a chord within me. I get a very strong impression of strength, passion and enjoyment in travelling from the darkness of midnight into the golden glory of dawn. A reminder of how to win when playing the game of continuity. In relation to our future and events that have not occured yet we can identify with Khephra as we move forward from the darkness of not knowing what's beyond our current breath into the dawn of new awareness.
-
**Rise, O my snake! It is now is the hour
Of the hooded and holy ineffable flower. **If we are to see this text in the light of where we are as individuals on the path then it doesn't make sense to think to high up the tree. For me the hour is always now, and for me, now means the beginning of the path. And my angel is in Tipharteh, or meandering on the twenty-fifth path of Samekh. From where I stand the hour is immediately post deluge, when god establishes the rainbow in the sky— and I see clearly, for the first time, the first three paths leading out of Malkuth—that mound of earth that one finds oneself standing on when the waters finally recede—Q+SH+Th, Qesheth, the bow of promise.
Thou art given to Nile, to the terror Typhon!
This speaks directly to me as the storm, the chaos of pre-initiation existence.
**Be still, O my soul! that the spell may dissolve
As the wands are upraised, and the æons revolve. **And these are the oaths of initiation, the upraising of the wands—the symbol of the fiery will.
Initially the oath is the work of Saturn, the path of Tav, and the trials and lessons that develop character, which is simply the purified, incontestable will, unattached to the petty and trivial, and committed to the great work; Saturn exalted in Libra as the love which chastiseth and bindeth. These rods are cut from almond trees in the orchard—agriculture is the domain of Saturn.
**Rise, O my snake, into brilliance of bloom
On the corpse of Osiris afloat in the tomb! **The 22 paths of the serpent of wisdom are individual letters in the special language of the soul and it's relationship with the Holy Guardian Angel. Each signifies a task, an oath, a special work. Where there is so much separation between the aspirant and the angel, it is only through these oaths that one communicates. It is a remote dance with the beloved.
**Ah me! but the glory of ravening storm
Enswathes thee and wraps thee in frenzy of form. **There is still some wind and rain that has to be negotiated—the fury of the storm having just let up; and so, strategically we tack left and then right against the wind with the intent of moving forward.
I await the awaking! The summons on high
From the Lord Adonai, from the Lord Adonai!The fulfilled promise of initiation, which for me does not relate to as lofty a concept as the relationship of Chohmah to Binah, but simply to the one who waits as I wait. My action mirrors and parallels that of my angel, and I stand in Malkuth, or somewhere just outside of it.
I have some added thoughts about the meditation of the day:
-
I'm happy this is happening. I would not have committed to something like this on my own because I could not be certain I would be able to really pursue it to the end. The fact that passages are posted on a daily basis works very well for me as there is an hour of two every morning when I can give time to it. The Forum makes this easy and as a result of this ease, profitable. So as long as the passages keep coming I will be able to respond—my first foray into something like this with such an important text. So, now, I am committed to something that I know I will stick with, religiously.
-
On the negative side is my anxiety that I am reading more into this than I should. I am in fact assuming a relationship between myself, the text, the person or people responsible for posting the passages, and other comments from other users. Generally, this spells trouble in my book. I take my commitments seriously, and when I start something I want to finish it. I don't want to imagine a relationship that doesn't exist, or I could easily see myself feeling as if I have been left standing in the rain.
It would be nice if there could be a little more clarification about how this is supposed to work so I can adjust my expectations, and perhaps my method. If I am the only one posting a comment, is that okay? Or maybe comments, general and rambling as they sometimes are, are not appreciated? I would have no way of knowing without someone taking the time to spell this out.
In the resources folder are links to documents for making cards. I would have posted some of these concerns there, but the folder is locked. Are these cards for following the readings required? Are the types of comments I am posting missing the point in some way I cannot appreciate? Maybe I should keep my thoughts to myself? I am assuming, perhaps wrongly that I can just open myself to the text, as if for the first time without a lot of preparatory reading, and just have a process that reflects where I am at this moment in my life. I tend to prefer to follow my individual impulses in this regard—someone says 'go,' and I start creating. I don't want to know too much about expectations because this only complicates an otherwise direct effort on my part to figure things out.
In short, I hope I am not acting rudely,, or offensively by splashing about in the water and talking so loudly. I appreciate that I can post, and think about the text in an orderly fashion, and read what others post, but this might not be what was intended.
Love and Will
-
-
@RobertAllen said
"2. On the negative side is my anxiety that I am reading more into this than I should. I am in fact assuming a relationship between myself, the text, the person or people responsible for posting the passages, and other comments from other users. Generally, this spells trouble in my book. I take my commitments seriously, and when I start something I want to finish it. I don't want to imagine a relationship that doesn't exist, or I could easily see myself feeling as if I have been left standing in the rain.
It would be nice if there could be a little more clarification about how this is supposed to work so I can adjust my expectations, and perhaps my method. If I am the only one posting a comment, is that okay? Or maybe comments, general and rambling as they sometimes are, are not appreciated? I would have no way of knowing without someone taking the time to spell this out."
Much of the ambiguity is because there are so many different ways to approach it, and it will look different each time you do it. Having done this (at different points) for a cumulative many years, I can honestly say that it's never looked quite the same way twice.
The simple instruction is to meditate on the verse and "get what you get." You can approach this from many different points of view, and one of the most obvious (and probably most typical) is using it to forge or fortify a highly personalized linkage. After all, it was created to be specifically a bhakti practice, a way to keep ongoing active recolleciton of one's relationship to the Belovéd. (The risk of a forum such as this is that it turns into a gnana practice instead, people trying to forge interpretation out of it or leverage the intellect to break through into a different level. I suppose that, if that serves someone, then one should hardly object! - But I mention it in contrast to distinguish that sort of approach from the bhakti for which it was originally created.)
"In the resources folder are links to documents for making cards. I would have posted some of these concerns there, but the folder is locked. Are these cards for following the readings required?"
Not required, no - the postings give the same thing. But... locked? Could you try again? I just clicked through (the terminal page being www.aumha.org/arcane/tephilah.htm) and clicking on the link brings up the .zip file with the opportunity to open or save it; or, right-click and pick Save Target does the same.
"Are the types of comments I am posting missing the point in some way I cannot appreciate?"
I wouldn't want to over-interpret that. What one gets (and the kind of thing one gets) is highy personal. If I were to suspend non-criticism briefly, I might mention that a general trend of most posts on this (not just yours) are a wandering to gnana instead of bhakti. - Probably it is the forum format (the need to post) that furthers this, since it's easier to write and talk about ideas and interpretations than the high-ways and low-ways of being in love. (I may also be furthering that, since my own focus this round is at least partly in being actuely mindful of which aspect of consciousness is speaking - something that got triggered in the earliest meditations and I thought it worth providing some clarification as we go. So far it's been all Adonai's interaction with V.V.V.V.V., i.e., Chiokmah with Binah.)
But, on the point of "over-interpret" ... In all such work (mystical or magical), one of the biggest speed bumps is over-interpreting. I don't mean one shouldn't dig in and go for broke on drinking everything out of a passage possible. I mean that, at the end, one shouldn't be overly sure that "what one got" means in anything in and of itself. (The early parts of Liber O address this enormously important point.) That is, meaning is something we put on a thing - nothing intrinsically has meaning until we (individually) assign it. And we assign meaning differently each time we encounter something. What we get back from it is far more a reflection of ourselves (at that point in space and time) as anything else. It's quite valuable to get such things - but it's the experience of getting them, of being with the passage and drawing it through and letting whatever strikes us work out through our hands onto paper or keyboard... pulling the thread we have hold of, so to speak... all that is far more valuable than any "product" we have at the end.
"Maybe I should keep my thoughts to myself?"
Go with whatever serves you best. Some people might do this in private. Some might have value sharing it (using the forum as a "receiver" to help draw more out of themselves, or ground some understanding in communicating it, or just having a place to share). And this may vary with you from day to day. (The forum is certainly richer when people share what they are getting.)
By my defining this as non-contentious - no arguments about what something means - it is likely to discourage there being as much reacting to (or commenting on) each other's posts as in other parts of the forum. (Notice that people mostly react to others' posts based on a kernel of disagreement.) This part of the forum could be an opportunity for us, as a community, to evolve new tactics of non-contentious conversation
"I am assuming, perhaps wrongly that I can just open myself to the text, as if for the first time without a lot of preparatory reading, and just have a process that reflects where I am at this moment in my life. I tend to prefer to follow my individual impulses in this regard—someone says 'go,' and I start creating. I don't want to know too much about expectations because this only complicates an otherwise direct effort on my part to figure things out. "
Yes.
"In short, I hope I am not acting rudely,, or offensively by splashing about in the water and talking so loudly."
Splash. Don't pee.
"I appreciate that I can post, and think about the text in an orderly fashion, and read what others post, but this might not be what was intended."
As you can see from above... certainly a big part of it.
-
1. I am the Heart; and the Snake is entwined
About the invisible core of the mind.
Rise, O my snake! It is now is the hour
Of the hooded and holy ineffable flower.
Rise, O my snake, into brilliance of bloom
On the corpse of Osiris afloat in the tomb!
O heart of my mother, my sister, mine own,
Thou art given to Nile, to the terror Typhon!
Ah me! but the glory of ravening storm
Enswathes thee and wraps thee in frenzy of form.
Be still, O my soul! that the spell may dissolve
As the wands are upraised, and the æons revolve.
Behold! in my beauty how joyous Thou art,
O Snake that caresses the crown of mine heart!
Behold! we are one, and the tempest of years
Goes down to the dusk, and the Beetle appears.
O Beetle! the drone of Thy dolorous note
Be ever the trance of this tremulous throat!
I await the awaking! The summons on high
From the Lord Adonai, from the Lord Adonai!STOP TRYING TO MAKE IT MAKE SENSE!
I am both the heart and the serpent;
still, there is a heart and there is a serpent, and I can talk about them, and talk to them;
I address my soul as if it is not I;
and I await the summons of the lord Adonai...Who/what is "I"? The only certain person in all of this seems to be Adonai! Later I may have reason to think Adonai is the serpent, or possibly the heart—then what?
I am falling.
I own a lot of books on Egyptian gods and mythology. I have this one book, a large coffee table book with beautiful reproductions. The text on the other hand is annoying because it states factoids about the Egyptian religion as if this were a fixed thing, ignoring the fact that different ideas were current at different times, in different places, and among different classes of Egyptian society. Nevertheless, it puts forth a very moving account of creation and the ultimate fate of the universe. In this account, all the gods die, except for two special gods who leave creation as it collapses at the end of time. These two gods are Amoun and Osiris. Amoun was the original god, the one who entered from outside, who established the dry mound of earth from out of the waters of chaos, and who made the other gods, and man. Osiris is the perfected man, perhaps the soul of Amoun himself, who comes back to him as his one true beloved rich with adventuring—I and Thou.
I cannot shake the sense that my mind is under attack. The words do not add up, neatly describing a metaphysical construct. I don't know who I am because soul is psyche, is psychology, is the accumulated wanderings of the blind, twisted self, the sufferer—I am falling...
Love and Will
-
"I cannot shake the sense that my mind is under attack. The words do not add up, neatly describing a metaphysical construct. I don't know who I am because soul is psyche, is psychology, is the accumulated wanderings of the blind, twisted self, the sufferer—I am falling..."
Good. Very good.
This is not too different from what I wrote about CCXX Chapter 3 about 15-20 years ago. It was clearly speaking from outside the framework I was trying to live in while approaching it.
Fortunately, we one faculty fails us, there is another, deeper one on which we can draw...
Very good, sir.
-
@Jim Eshelman said
"
Fortunately, we one faculty fails us, there is another, deeper one on which we can draw...
"Maybe I will find this deeper faulty if I clean up my desk.
Thanks for encouragement.
Love and Will