28 April - (Earth) Liber LXV, 1:43-44
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@Jim Eshelman said
"I continue to find it... interesting... how this offered Bhakti yoga practice continues to be treated as a Gnana yoga practice."
"Scriptural meditations of the day from the Thelemic canon, with primary emphasis on Liber LXV, Liber VII, and Liber CCXX. (Meditations with no responses after 2 days will be deleted - we want to encourage ACTIVE DISCUSSION.) "
Frankly, I'm challenged by the notion of approaching the text in a strictly devotional mode, while still discussing it. At the same time, I know I have attempted to get beyond a simple analysis and on to a deeper understanding that allows me to feel something, or at the very least, connect it to my already developed feelings of longing for my own Angel. As such, the devotional element would most likely be the most invisible part of anyone's exegesis. For example, I have promised myself that I will work with each passage, every day, as they are posted. In my mind this is a devotional orientation, but I would not expect it to be apparent in each individual post.
...maybe we should just write songs and poetry and post those—I don't know...
Love and Will
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Dear Robert, thou strivest ever; even in thy yielding thou strivest to yield — and lo! thou yieldest not.
(I'm just giving you a hard time; I also am finding it quite a challenge to engage in discussion on these threads, and still try to make it a devotional/meditation exercise, as opposed to an intellectual one)
If I am not mistaken, Bhakti yoga is about the object having a growing presence in our mind. It's very hard to think of our object without then engaging in free association about the object; what we want to say, how we think and feel about the object, etc.
And I think it's interesting that the discussion has turned to this on the day of this specific verse, because I hear the echo of
"Be still [let go] and know that I am Lord" (Psalm 46:10)
and the word
"Islam"
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93,
@Jim Eshelman said
"I continue to find it... interesting... how this offered Bhakti yoga practice continues to be treated as a Gnana yoga practice."
Exactly.
How do we describe the devotional? It's like using a sword when we need a grail. Trying to describe these things in the M.R. with a qualitative/quantitative description is always fun. My M.R. has taught me the limits of language, or at least my innate ability to never convey any magickal/mystical experience in a complete way.
Metaphor can never be wrong AND the poetry is beautiful. These are amazing passages that always continue to grow in the Light (horrible metaphor).
Love is the law, love under will.
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This post is a mixture of all the ideas presented plus looking up infinite, abasement and Bhakti Yoga. I think that all of you are right, but I think Jim pointed out something that was the key to this understanding.
" 43. (Nay; but not therewith was he content. By an infinite abasement unto shame did he strive. Then a voice:) "
I believe the point is he demanded and got what he demanded, then he was shamed for he realized that his demand was not out of “loving devotion to the God” and he considered himself to be lowered (debased) because his demand was not out of love for God but because he wanted to be as a God. He was shamed without any measure because he wanted an instant reward and was granted an instant reward. Could this be because he realized that he denied himself the true reward or the reward that he may have gotten if he had tarried in his studies?
The words “Then a voice:” seem to be out of place in this instance. There seems to be a purpose that is missed in this discussion
" 44. Thou strivest ever; even in thy yielding thou strivest to yield — and lo! thou yieldest not. "
This seems to be a relationship to instant rewards (just guessing). -
**
"44. Thou strivest ever; even in thy yielding thou strivest to yield — and lo! thou yieldest not."
**... Adonai is always there, it is foolish effort to strive; one has to just give oneself to Him, *silently surrender *[Gimel].
this verse reminds me of AL II, 7:
".. "Come unto me" is a foolish word: for it is I that go" -
I liked this thought a lot, so I made a picture.
[attachment=0:2j034pct]<!-- ia0 -->Adonai2.jpg<!-- ia0 -->[/attachment:2j034pct] -
@Jim Eshelman said
"I continue to find it... interesting... how this offered Bhakti yoga practice continues to be treated as a Gnana yoga practice."
Well, it's a web forum. People talk here. Maybe you should only allow postings in this section that are either pictures, music, or poetry created by the poster. The great bhakti yogins like Mirabai and Rumi produced poetry.
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I wasn't complaining. I really meant that I find it interesting.
And yes - art exprssions or just people trying to struggle through giving expression to how saturatedly in love they are... that would be cool here, too.
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Thinking about this a bit and reading the intro so far of Bhakti Yoga by Swami Vivekanada I came accross this passage that I makes sense to me right now.
"Three things are necessary for a bird to fly—the two wings and the tail as a rudder for steering. Jnâna (knowledge) is the one wing, Bhakti (love) is the other, and Yoga is the tail that keeps up the balance. For those who cannot pursue all these three forms of worship together in harmony, and take up, therefore, Bhakti alone as their way, it is necessary always to remember that forms and ceremonials, though absolutely necessary for the progressive soul, have no other value than taking us on to that state in which we feel the most intense love to God."
There are other helpful definitions in the intro and it looks like a straightforward and good book which I plan to read. I think the Gnana Yoga that I was indulging in is the Qabalistic analysis of phrases, objects, and descriptions. This analysis leads into a myriad of ideas and the building of theories and classifications in the Holy Books like Liber LXV here. While this is necessary I first hand know that in this the idea of the devotion was lost to me.
The discussion has pointed out to me to allow myself to feel the Love for the divine and then express my comment. This doesn't come first hand to me and sometimes there is no Love to be felt. With that I know that I am not in the right frame of mind and possibly a prayer, meditation, and ritual will bring me back into focus on the Infinite beings that we are. To draw dawn the light from Adonai and allow its brightness to fill my heart.
That balance of the two - Knowledge and Love - Hod and Netzach - Mercury and Venus - is deficient in me and this helps to point it out to me. I aspire to the Foundation and mine own HGA at the heart of the Sun, with devotion and knowledge, that I may gain Union even for a moment.
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@mojorisin44 said
"That balance of the two - Knowledge and Love - Hod and Netzach - Mercury and Venus - is deficient in me and this helps to point it out to me."
I notice this in myself as well. I intellectually understand the concept behind Bhakti, and can differentiate it logically from Gnana, but actually performing Bhakti without simply triggering it and then logically analyzing it as it occurs... I am unable to do this.
But I'm trying daily.
I think my lack of experience with gematria is actually a good thing in this context
93, 93/93.
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@Ash said
"I notice this in myself as well. I intellectually understand the concept behind Bhakti, and can differentiate it logically from Gnana, but actually performing Bhakti without simply triggering it and then logically analyzing it as it occurs... I am unable to do this.
But I'm trying daily.
I think my lack of experience with gematria is actually a good thing in this context
"Maybe someone will disagree with me on this, but I tend to think that Gnana and Gematria can be perfectly valid supplements to a Bhakti practice, it they stir the heart.
Love and Will
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44. Thou strivest ever; even in thy yielding thou strivest to yield — and lo! thou yieldest not.
This verse has always reminded me of the last two lines in this quote:
@Rumi said
"When the sweet glance of my true love caught my eyes,
Like alchemy, it transformed my copper-like soul.
I searched for Him with a thousand hands,
He stretched out His arms and clutched my feet."