28 June (Water) Liber LXV, 3:40-41
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40. I am become like a luscious devil of Italy; a fair strong woman with worn cheeks, eaten out with hunger for kisses. She hath played the harlot in divers palaces; she hath given her body to the beasts.
41. She hath slain her kinsfolk with strong venom of toads; she hath been scourged with many rods. -
There's a saying where I come from: "You can't turn a hoe into a housewife." I don't know how true that is. But I'm pretty sure there have been some hoes in history that have been turned into housewives by the right dude. That's what this verse says to me. I've been a silly whore but my lover is redeeming me into a wonderful housewife. So strange being a guy and saying that but that's the impression I'm getting.
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40. I am become like a luscious devil of Italy; a fair strong woman with worn cheeks, eaten out with hunger for kisses. She hath played the harlot in divers palaces; she hath given her body to the beasts.
41. She hath slain her kinsfolk with strong venom of toads; she hath been scourged with many rods.There is a thread of who is talking to who that I have almost totally lost. I mean, I know the speaker is the master, or something comparable, and 'thou' is the beloved, but the assumption of these qualities by the speaker are suggestive to me on another level because they seem perfect descriptors of the character and willful adventures of Babalon, as I can best understand them.
It's curious then, as I read the text, the master is actively identifying him/herself with the ultimate, feminine archetype. She is described as a traditional theater mask or classic type: She hath played the harlot in divers palaces; she hath given her body to the beasts.
What is curious and is making me ask questions about what is really going here is the line that begins: I am become...
Just a few days ago I would have sworn the beloved, as 'Thou,' was also given these qualities: **30. Thou art Sebek the crocodile against Asar; thou art Mati, the Slayer in the Deep. Thou art Typhon, the Wrath of the Elements, O Thou who transcendest the Forces in their Concourse and Cohesion, in their Death and their Disruption. Thou art Python, the terrible serpent about the end of all things! **
What is going on here? Perhaps this is the ultimate meaning of the whoredom of Babalon, that she is the medium of all fascination and the disguise we wear when giving ourselves over to those foolish, wanton games when life seduces us to experience?
41. She hath slain her kinsfolk with strong venom of toads; she hath been scourged with many rods.
And this makes her sexy, seductive and suggestive of intense experience. "I've got a naughty idea, lets get out the whips and chains!"
Love and Will
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As I read this I think about the domestication of women, and what that brought about.......
I am wild, and willful and wonderful
And I won't be tamed
I will do as thou wiltAnd brothers
Watch out
For the domestication of man
is next......So don't be so quick to
Chain me
to the hearth and home -
@RobertAllen said
"There is a thread of who is talking to who that I have almost totally lost. I mean, I know the speaker is the master, or something comparable, and 'thou' is the beloved, but the assumption of these qualities by the speaker are suggestive to me on another level because they seem perfect descriptors of the character and willful adventures of Babalon, as I can best understand them."
Thanks for bringing this back on course. - I read it the same way, except I'd say it's the Adept and not the Magister through most or all of this chapter. (And speaking to the Angel in some of the deepest, purest bhakti passages of the all of Liber LXV.)
The present verses starts a series reaching climax in vv. 45-46 making clear that the speaker is the Adept analogizing his or her relationship to and experience of the Angel. (I love your acting perspective on this one.)
"Just a few days ago I would have sworn the beloved, as 'Thou,' was also given these qualities: **30. Thou art Sebek the crocodile against Asar; thou art Mati, the Slayer in the Deep. Thou art Typhon, the Wrath of the Elements, O Thou who transcendest the Forces in their Concourse and Cohesion, in their Death and their Disruption. Thou art Python, the terrible serpent about the end of all things! **"
One of the recurring or persisting themes in this chapter is the experience of being blown away, shattered, broken - obviously referring to the boundaries or definitions of the ego etc., not to one's innate self - the experience of surrendering, whether voluntarily or involuntarily, to that which eradicates one's prior smallness. The Adept is intensely feminine in this one - really more of a porn video feminine! - "I don't care how big it is (and may not even have a choice about it), get that terrifyingly gigantic thing inside me NOW! Shred! Rend!! Die!!!"
"What is going on here? Perhaps this is the ultimate meaning of the whoredom of Babalon, that she is the medium of all fascination and the disguise we wear when giving ourselves over to those foolish, wanton games when life seduces us to experience? "
Yes, the infinite is entirely polymorphous. It takes whatever image is convenient to the moment.
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"Thoughts:
What's silly about being a whore?
Why on earth does she need 'redeeming'?
A wonderful housewife?I'm getting a strong sense of wishful thinking "
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Thanks for calling me out on the wishful thinking. I'm a hopeless romantic and a total sap sometimes.
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There's nothing wrong with being a silly whore. But I do have a word about hoes: I have a friend of over 10 years. We met in college. She was wild and untamed. She slept with a lot of guys. She partied. She got into fights with other chics. She was in and out of different scandals. When she left school she got pregnant and had a child. She thought the father was a particular dude and would swear on a stack of holy books that the child was his. It turned out it wasn't. But anyway, long story short, all my friend wanted was to be loved, appreciated, accepted. She thought she can find that through sex, drugs and men. Rarely did it occur to her that what she was seeking was inside of her, not outside.
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The housewife comment: My parents have been together since they were teenagers. I think they cracked 30 years last year. It took A LOT of teamwork to stay together for so long. My dad can be extremely difficult to deal with. My mom too but my dad is more overbearing than my mom. But she deals with him. And sometimes she rebels but for the most part they always find a way to make it work. Now, my analogy may be a little crude, but as we go through these verses and I do my own transformational work, and my relationship to my Angel deepens, I'm realizing that there are many many many times I want to go off and be the silly hoe. And in the past, I have. But now the game has changed. And I have a wedding to plan. So if I want to make this work, I have to confide in my beloved, get my Nephesh aligned with the bigger game being played and be the bride that's going to make this marriage work.
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93,
@Jim Eshelman said
"**40. I am become like a luscious devil of Italy; a fair strong woman with worn cheeks, eaten out with hunger for kisses. She hath played the harlot in divers palaces; she hath given her body to the beasts.
- She hath slain her kinsfolk with strong venom of toads; she hath been scourged with many rods.**"
The phrase "luscious devil of Italy" reminds me of Leah Hirsig during the times of the Abbey in Cefalu. Of course, she portrayed these verses quite well.
93 93/93
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40. I am become like a luscious devil of Italy; a fair strong woman with worn cheeks, eaten out with hunger for kisses. She hath played the harlot in divers palaces; she hath given her body to the beasts.
"hunger for kisses" speaks to me as a desire (or seeking) to experience something or to join with something. Perhaps the root of this desire is for something higher yet it is manifesting itself at a lower octave?
'giving her body to the beasts' brings to mind the Nephesh and possibly quieting that river of running water.
41. She hath slain her kinsfolk with strong venom of toads; she hath been scourged with many rods.
I have willingly sacrificed my family and children; I have been beaten down by many rods of attachment.
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@Shadonis said
" But anyway, long story short, all my friend wanted was to be loved, appreciated, accepted. She thought she can find that through sex, drugs and men. Rarely did it occur to her that what she was seeking was inside of her, not outside. "
Not to disparage your comments on what your friend, or you really want, but I have always found the language of Hoe (whoredom, laying with beats, and and all that jazz) very utilitarian in so far as it postulates an absolute, in your face, freedom. Within that, you can do anything, even be a stay-at-home mom. It's less about 'this is what you should do' and more about 'I'm capable of anything and I will thank you to respect that fact.'
But I'm really responding because you've given me an opportunity to tell a story:
One day, during the filming of the movie Giant, James Dean walked off the set, and standing among the crowd of locals who came to watch, he whipped out his tool and relieved himself. It was shocking. I think I read about it in an interview of Dean by Dennis Hopper where Hopper asked Dean: "Jimmy, you've done some crazy things in the past, but what possessed you to take a whiz in the crowd like that?" (the quotes are my paraphrased recollections from memory)
His answer was that he had this intense love scene with Sophia Loren, and he was so nervous about it, that he needed to prove to himself he could do anything. He figured, if he could pee in public, that would prove to his own satisfaction he had what it took to play opposite a mega-star like Loren.
This was very good magick, imho.
Love and Will
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"Not to disparage your comments on what your friend, or you really want, but I have always found the language of Hoe (whoredom, laying with beats, and and all that jazz) very utilitarian in so far as it postulates an absolute, in your face, freedom."
You've offered me a new perspective to consider this notion from so thank you very much. Can I admit to being quite jealous of this freedom? Perhaps many people were but that's beside the point. I'm turned on by these verse. They elicit some feelings and images that I tend to supress. It's the all out whoredom that does it for me. It's nasty, it's dirty and it's everything I secretly love and hate. And it reflects an attitude that's becoming more and more common for me.
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93 All,
Looks like an internal issue.
"Quote: 40. I am become like a luscious devil of Italy; a fair strong woman with worn cheeks, eaten out with hunger for kisses. She hath played the harlot in divers palaces; she hath given her body to the beasts."
The image of a women, in the PFC tarot course work usually refers to Subconsciuousness. Or, the Nephesh, the Animal Soul within each of us and collectively.
The Luscious Devil and Harlot I think, is an accurate description of the Nephesh (ATU-13, ATU-16 & ATU-20) it’s very sexual and indiscriminate. This verse also bring to my mind the image of (ATU-11 LUST the Hebrew Letter Teth). I will need to think about this one some more…"Quote: 41. She hath slain her kinsfolk with strong venom of toads; she hath been scourged with many rods."
What comes to mind is a description of the Nephesh or animal soul without the uniting light of Tiphereth. Surging uncontrolled Yesodic energies, the reward of repression. -
When I read this I first saw a picture of mankind being like mother earth. Mother earth can sometimes be considered the harlot (in some respect). She gave birth to trillions (or more) of just humans alone. When you throw in all the bugs, animals, vegetation etc. The numbers are innumerable.
When you also look at all the things mankind has done throughout the past and even present, you start to see a lot of things that are very similar.
Mankind has made others harlots through slavery, caste systems, etc. Mankind has harloted itself to others when mankind felt that was the best way to get things. Mankind has harloted and enslaved itself to drugs, alcohol and nicotine (which are all considered poisons). I will not say that I am judging mankind as I am a part of mankind.
Even though I have read the remarks written before what I wrote. I still wanted to list my first impressions of these verses. Thanks.