The Great Work - How do you define and live it?
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"no I said no one can FULLY do their well or do it efficiently. "
erm:
"No one can do their own WILL until the WHOLE system is re-designed into a general thelemic order."
If you're going to change what you say, then there's not much point in me engaging you any more. 93
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Well it took me some time to get up to speed on this topic. I had originally wanted to comment on my definition, ect. But gosh golly gee we sure have gotten into a bunch of other stuff.
I am with Dar, in that I do not think the gw is to bring the kingdom of god to earth, or any other such thing. The kingdom is established, but I do believe that things with in the kingdom are constantly changing and this are fading away, and things are sharpening new tools so to speak, So I guess that for me, the gw is that process in which I test my limits, self restrict if I may, and then build up my self so that I can break free of those self limiting
Restrictipns, and become a little bit different then I was before.I hear allot of passion and great ideas, but ideas without action isn't even masturbation
It's just getting a hard on, and then you get blue balls, A tension that is blinding.BMFuller taught that to criticize a system is useless, you have to make the system obsolete. I for one would be very unsettled if instead of a USDA grade a serlion, I bought one with a different stamp of endorsement.
Even though I hate it at times, this system does work for the most part, and the parts that seem to fail, fail because........well my heart says fear, but my brain says ignorance.....I think that they are synonyms for the same idea.
I actively work in my community, I put myself out there. Even though I think a lot of what my community does is silly, and ineffectual, I still am out ther walking and talking and stirrin the pot.
Fro clown, you posted a link to some persons private blogg, well maybe not private, but with only four subscribers, so it's pretty low key. You thought that it would be nice to share with us here, how some one gets you and understands your pov. I will say that I think you weakened your stance by that. That fellow said a lot of smack, and while I love fruitcake and completely understand the symbology of that cake, I understood his slur as an attack, But from an attacker who does not have the courage to come here, login and say that to my face. He said many things about Mr. Eshelman. Yet will not say them here where Mr. Eshelman has the chance to rebut if he so desires.
That person IMO is not doing what Mr. Eshelman is........he is not putting himself out there, He is not making himself available, And that is what the GW is, It is making ones one pov, ones own radiance available for the rest.
It was also mentioned how the Beatles suck, and wish they were the Stones.
That is actually a very deep statement,
I personally believe that modern music has two audiences, bands that play for Goddesses and bands that play for Gods. When I worked in the dance hall, even though 90 percent of the people in the clubs were men, older men.......all the music that was played was girlie girl stuff. And boy oh boy, those blokes had some of the biggest smiles on their faces, cause the girls were happy, and dancing and being nice to them.If momma is happy, then everyone is happy is a saying I have heard. And I think it's right. I don't think that for one minute John, or Paul or ringo, or George wanted to be anything other then what they were. They made girls happy. The stones on the other hand, well I bet they had a few moments where they wondered if.......
Probably not, I am just frothing off here.
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Again some one replies to the great work with Narcissistic explanations about improving oneself and experiencing life better for oneself, etc.
"self improvement is masturbation" (Fight club)
The great work is not about YOU or ME, it is about the world and society as a whole things bigger than you and me. A human is a tiny insignificant bit of nothing, it's life, death and happiness are nothing, all that matters is what it can produce beyond itself in the whole. The word is to build itself up so that it can be useful as a stepping stone for that which is greater. Not self for vanity sake, or pleasure for it's own sake.
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@Froclown said
"Again some one replies to the great work with Narcissistic explanations about improving oneself and experiencing life better for oneself, etc."
Not Narcissistic. More of "physician, heal thyself." Start with getting your own shit together, and go on from there.
""self improvement is masturbation" (Fight club) "
The first rule of Fight Club is to shut the fuck up about Fight Club.
"The great work is not about YOU or ME, it is about the world and society as a whole things bigger than you and me. A human is a tiny insignificant bit of nothing, it's life, death and happiness are nothing, all that matters is what it can produce beyond itself in the whole. The word is to build itself up so that it can be useful as a stepping stone for that which is greater. Not self for vanity sake, or pleasure for it's own sake."
Or, the Great Work is solely and only about oneself; except that, as one actually grows in it, one's definition of "self" changes until that embraces the whole.
The Great Work is not about society at all - that's too transient a thing. It's about "the world" only indirectly. It certainly isn't about politics and social structures and economic systems, except in the peripheral sense that this spills over from the primary focus on the evolution of individuals. Transformed people transform society.
One of the grossest problems in society today is the vision that a human life is a tiny insignificant bit of nothing -p it comes and goes, etc. Besides being a lie, that point of view encourages political, economic, and personal decisions that don't see past the immediate generation. One of the splendid by-products of recognizing our continual rebirth, our uninterrupted living across the ages, is that even the most selfish parts of us are then motivated to make the world better. While it would be nice to think that most people would learn to think past themselves, to look out for future generations, the truth is that most people don't and won't do that. Problems get passed off to later generations (and, therefore, really not solved - just ask the Mayans, the Romans, and the Khmer, for example - except that, of course, you can't ask them because these great, centuries-spanning civilizations all got wiped out by this very behavior).
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@Veronica said
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It was also mentioned how the Beatles suck, and wish they were the Stones.That is actually a very deep statement,
I personally believe that modern music has two audiences, bands that play for Goddesses and bands that play for Gods. When I worked in the dance hall, even though 90 percent of the people in the clubs were men, older men.......all the music that was played was girlie girl stuff. And boy oh boy, those blokes had some of the biggest smiles on their faces, cause the girls were happy, and dancing and being nice to them.If momma is happy, then everyone is happy is a saying I have heard. And I think it's right. I don't think that for one minute John, or Paul or ringo, or George wanted to be anything other then what they were. They made girls happy. The stones on the other hand, well I bet they had a few moments where they wondered if.......
Probably not, I am just frothing off here."
Veronica, I think I can guess where you were going with this because it is obvious. I don't want it to be obvious because the obvious is such a difficult mask to get beyond. So, a little more of my opinionated thought on the matter:
I recently heard something, I think it was on one of the KCRW music programs. The sentiment went something like this: there are only two types of music—the blues, and something else. The Beatles are something else. As such, they have never really been real to me, even when I was eight years old and the song played, ad nauseam on the AM station was I wanna hold your hand, I hated them. Many years later I realized what bothered me so much about them, they were dilettantes. And there it was, the idea of not really being real, not being the deal, of being more celebrity than music.
I'm not a musician, but I still ask myself all the time, am I a dilettante? I don't think so, but the possibility is always there, of slipping into the easy path of least resistance. To credit the Beatles with anything is to lose sight of the fact that they were in fact little more than victims of forces much greater than themselves. Victim, of course, is the wrong word because they made out pretty good for themselves. And what can I say, the songs are attractive, saccharin sweet, easy. And people like that—the broad mass of what constitutes people like this kind of thing because it ultimately allows them to abandon their ideals and settle into being middle class.
I thoroughly expect this post to be deleted because it has nothing to do with anything related to this topic, and only remotely anything to do with the sanctioned themes of the forum, except in so far as I am pointedly ignoring one other poster on the thread.
Love and Will
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Down the road a ways from my home is a compound of sort. Eastman Kodak built it in the seventies as a retreat training center. It has a theatre d, a lab, sleeping rooms, recreation, and a host of other things. It was abandoned in the mid ninties and sits unused.
In my personal practice as a holistic healthcare practioner, I developed a program to help bring people to awareness so to speak, my program will work through any illness malady, or unbalanced huamn and help that person regain health and happiness. It teaches people seven core ideas, principles to work with so that they can live and have joy.
But because of the current restrictions placed on my liberty I am unable to practice and take procession of this compound and set up this program to help people get the most out of life.
I realize, that if my neighbor is sick then I too run the risk of illness. I realize that if my head is in the clouds, or up my butt then I am not doing my true will, and will run into problems.
When I realized that when I carried my daughter in my womb, that I was also carring my potential grandkids with me as well, in her eggs I understood the importance of ME, and how taking care of me, takes care of all that come.
I know that you Froclown have no children, nor are close to those who do, for you would never be able to say honestly that humans are nothing if you have lived with children and raised them.
I often think of space, and all the planets and stars ect. as my body, and how each planet is a part of me, and how that part is so very important, and loved by me. If I loose one part of me, I am poorer for it. And while us earthlings are destined to die, we don't have to end.
If I don't try to be my best, to put myself out there and engage with others then I might as well just be surgically removed like a cancer cell on the body of Nuit.
The picture you shared is from what I can tell, just a masculine superposition of the flower of life. The DNA/ran spirals that seemingly dictate existence, and order this kingdom.
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The great work
How do define itMaking the best choices
How do I live it
I listen to Mozart when I work
And the Beatles when I playSeriously, it may be the other way around
I listen to disco when I wash dishes
Because it's ok if I miss some notesBut when I am serious.....
I want the complex, musicLike Wagner, Bach, zeppelin, and My other rock gods.
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"In a properly functioning orchestra, sometimes there's harmony, sometimes there's dissonance. Sometimes notes compete, sometimes they blend or play in unison. Sometimes they have to observe rests."
beautiful! symmetry in diversity! chaos and order! unite thine opposite!
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@AvshalomBinyamin said
"If you're going to change what you say, then there's not much point in me engaging you any more. 93"
Hey let's cut him some slack; his essential vision has merit.
"if we don't make those changes I listed, every last human being on earth will die."
Points for confidence, but...
"That means Promoting Thelema to the people, establishing it in small communities to test it out and improve it's application, to design company logistics that conform to Thelema. To put the values out in the media and to actively work against the messages of Democracy and Equality, and all that promote victimhood, slave morals, entitlement, etc. To promote Aristocracy."
...how do you intend to go about this when even these early, embryonic manifestations of Thelemic society are so disjointed and divisive? Perhaps in your enthusiasm (which I find refreshing, albeit humorless at times), you've failed to realize that a great many individuals and organizations are already working along the lines you suggest, and may even be far more advanced than you know. It is your pride, that favorite vice of the aristocrat, that keeps you from joining their ranks.
"The first rule of Fight Club is to shut the {****} up about Fight Club. "
Ah, yes--everyone seems to forget that one.
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@IASVN said
"Hey let's cut him some slack; his essential vision has merit."
That's actually where I disagree most, I think.
I would say that he has some good points, has drawn together ideas of which a few of them have merit... but that his essential vision, the core of his thrust, is what is deeply flawed.
He's perpetuating exactly the core errors of the profane, the points that most deeply undercut progress... or even health!
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If you really want to know what my plans are.
I want to get out of debt, square up with the grid society, then join something probably an eco community, that works to generate it's own power, supply it's own water, grow it's own food, and mostly trade within.I want to explain the ideals of Thelema as Crowely put them forth in Confessions about the abbey and the right attitude about economy, labour distribution and sexual liberty, as well as the method of Thelema and Duty as he describes the proper use of all things according to their nature, be they inert or living.
To the extent that the group is willing and interested in such principles, also more important I plan to learn about living off the grid and community design, and to apply that to Thelemic ends, Probably used to help OTO establish itself by the blue equinox model and the ideal outline in the open letter. But, I am not exclusively committed to using such skills for OTO or any particular Thelemic or non-Thelemic organisation than wants to put them into practice. I default to OTO since it is already a large system of small bodies that working locally, which could each be developed into a small abbey or set of profess house centred local communities, than might form an interconnected network of thelemic run locally sustained groups, which can survive the coming collapse of the global economy and the catastrophe when petroleum runs dry.
I mean that is my BIG Idea, a tentative model of the Great work, at least a large step towards that work, and establishing the new social order on the law of thelema after the fall of the current cycle of decline in which "Faustian culture" will collapse.
