Magick WITH tears.
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93,
A while back I already posted that I have a lot of trouble with getting proper (mostly understandable) information on Thelema. I got lovely replies of people that recommended me to read this and that and supported me to go on no matter what. You also have me info on how to find a Dutch OTO. It's at least half a year further now and my love for Thelema has grown, but so has my confusion. I know that starting with the actual Book of Law isn't a very good idea because it's hard to understand for beginners but even when I read 'simpler' text that explain aspects of it, it dazzles me and I just cannot comprehend. I haven't purchased any of the recommended books because I'm afraid I won't understand them anyway. One of the causes is my lack of skill in very advanced English, but the biggest, probably, is that I DO NOT UNDERSTAND MAGICK AND RITUALS.
I carry with me a history of semi-believing. I was never a non-believer because there are too many things not even science can explain but I was never a follower of any religion. (Well, according to my birth registry I'm a Roman Catholic but that's only because my parents shoved me in a bowl of water to get baptized when I wasn't even able to distinguish my big toe from a lollipop, I never went to church and did not read the Bible.) I didn't understand people going to church or people praying, I didn't understand why they went to church to get 'blessing', I simply didn't understand how they would do such things because I had attempted praying myself so many times and NEVER felt anything. And I still don't.
I've attempted to do Yoga many times, even though it's hard in my physical condition to do so properly (I'm obese, working hard on getting it fixed by getting more exercise and a healthy diet) and it has worked for me, in a way. It relaxes me, but that's all it does. Whenever the exercises tell me to 'turn my awareness inside', I don't feel anything. I don't know where to turn my mind to, I don't know how to let go of the world around me. I'm too much with both my feet on solid ground to meditate. And that part of me also refuses to think of doing anything magick or ritual related. I've watched YouTube images of people performing the Gnostic Mass or other rituals and I can't help but feel distanced. I almost feel ashamed, even, because to me it seems so silly. My down-to-earthness refuses to believe that any of those things would make a change in me. But I WANT to because I feel I NEED it so, so much.
So every time I read a Thelemic text or I try to look up information and I come across magick, the Tree of Life, names like Babalon and Nuit, part of me closes off everything. And yet, the Liber Oz and Duty, the whole thought of Thelema feel so RIGHT. I DO believe in True Will, I DO believe in Liber Oz, I DO believe in the Holy Guardian Angel, but I CANNOT get myself to do rituals and suchlike.
I've been recommended to contact the OTO asap, but I simply don't dare to. I'm afraid that I'll never get the true essence of it because I find chanting and banishing pentagrams too silly to do. I'm afraid they'll find me an idiot and tell me to leave, to abandon ever becoming a Thelemite. And I lie awake at night, crying, because I'm afraid. It also doesn't help that I've only told a few of my closest friends about my thoughts on Thelema and they're calling it a 'stupid stoner-cult that's going to run off with your money'. I haven't even dared tell my parents because, to be honest, they aren't the most broad-minded people on the block. If I don't even dare do that, how am I ever going to contact the OTO?
I'm sorry about the chaos that is this post, but believe me, my mind is even worse.
Where to start? And like I said, I would love to read all the written works, but right now it sounds too much like gibberish to me
93/93
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Bottom line - in one or two sentences - what do you want? What are you pursuing?
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Elmida,
I would love to come on here and give you the cure-all recommendation for what you're experiencing, but if I knew what it was, I wouldn't be in the exact same situation as you. I have been wrestling with the things you descibe in your post for roughly two years now. It can be very discouraging, but something inside fuels you to continue no matter how terrifying it is. And speaking of terrifying, I believe the word "afraid" from your post is the key word. You should identify this fear, go into it, and hopefully find some understanding in it.
Reading your post was like reading a topic that I've wanted to create for a while but have failed to articulate. Don't be so hard on yourself, it was anything but chaotic. I am certainly looking forward to hearing what the other members of this board have in response.
Care,
-ANEA
PS.
"Whenever the exercises tell me to 'turn my awareness inside', I don't feel anything"
This quote reminded me of this koan:
"Bodhidharma sits facing the wall. His future successor stands in the snow and presents his severed arm to Bodhidharma. He cries: "My mind is not pacified. Master, pacify my mind."
Bodhidharma says: "If you bring me that mind, I will pacify it for you."
The successor says: "When I search my mind I cannot hold it."
Bodhidharma says: "Then your mind is pacified already."
"
quote source: www.sacred-texts.com/bud/glg/glg41.htm
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Hmm.. Gibberish...
Directions in Mind.
That direction you internally reach when you've exhausted your knowledge and you begin to formulate a question to no one in particular... that edge of thought right there before words... where your mind is reaching toward intuition of a particular sort...
I relate to that inward feeling as the "God direction."
One may leave it there.
One may name it and relate to it.
One may experiment with other people's names for it.In the latter cases, the names are not as important as the reaching for that direction, that flavor, that quality of mind within/without you.
The reaching is everything.
The expectation is nothing.
Not in the end. -
I wish I would be able to say "'I'm glad to hear I'm not on my own", but knowing how horrible this feels I'm actually sorry that there are others. So a big virtual hug to you, ANEA.
To Jim Eshelman, what I think I want is to find a way to be able to get in contact with my HGA and reach True Will, but I don't know how because the most common ways described in literature are really far off for me. I need to find a way, maybe guidance, to let go of the whole feeling of 'awkwardness'. I want to be a proper Thelemite.
All I know is that for the last five years I've been struggling immensely with my inner self. I've experienced a horrible year that completely threw me into the deepest pits of fear and confusion. I have no confidence or self-love whatsoever. Who is the real me? Or am I simply being who I want others to see? I think that last thing the bit that holds me back with this, too. Nowadays religion is being frowned upon more and more and the majority of my friends is an atheist. Even when I do really very much want to be a Thelemite, what would they think? It took me three years to make the decision to finally dye my hair blonde in fear of what others would say, let alone their reaction to me committing to a religion/philosophy they do not understand. Am I really willing and able to have to explain myself and what I believe in constantly? Am I strong enough for that?
It holds me back, partly because I'm afraid to and partly because everything is still very new and abstract.
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@Jim Eshelman said
"Bottom line - in one or two sentences - what do you want? What are you pursuing?"
If Elmida and I are on the same page, then let me attempt to answer this:
There is an initial block/inhibition with beginning magickal practice (as the OP described).
So, what do we want? The block/inhibition to go away.
What are we pursuing? Making the initial connection/understanding that will eliminate the feeling of “outside”-ness that Elmida was so spot-on with.
I mentioned fear (afraid) because she’s identified her’s: fear of failure and/or non-acceptance. In my case, fear of practicing things improperly and/or non-acceptance.
Hope this helps,
-ANEA
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@Elmida said
"93,
I've been recommended to contact the OTO asap, but I simply don't dare to."
Elmida, i am new too.
No one wants you to believe, start practicing rituals and you will see that they do work; this is not a religion in terms that it wants you to believe something just because someone said so.
If i am not mistaken, *the head * (grand master) of OTO is LonMilo DuQuette - do some googling for his images and videos, he is simply an enlightened, wise man... you will know that as soon as you see or hear him.
On the other hand, if you are still dependent of your parents (very young) - maybe its better to wait until you'll be independent and then pursue your interests if you'll still have the by that time.
Good luck!
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@ANEA said
" Don't be so hard on yourself"
We are all "sufferers" - even the greatest amongst us - and so I echo Anea as I've been told the same thing by others on the board when being a bit loathsome and self-critical. So a great piece of advice is to give yourself a break and don't be so hard on yourself. It's okay that things aren't understood even after persistence. It's okay that you feel silly and don't know why you're doing this, that, or the other. I can attest to feeling similar about certain things and I can tell, for myself, that things do change eventually, everything does - I think whether we like or not. Maybe we're like ships lost at sea at times in our lives with the winds battering us and rain draining down upon us. The Sun will rise, the clouds will part, and it is realized that behind the bad weather It was always there guiding even if we didn't see it.
93
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strange drugs!
may help to unseat your consciousness.
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@Dar said
"Some women are bitches. "
All women are angels!!!
though some of us in disguise mwahahah
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@magictortoise said
"
@Dar said
"Some women are bitches. "All women are angels!!!
"Some angels are bitches.
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@Jim Eshelman said
"
Some angels are bitches."Ehem... true too... but,
:little_angel:
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Brace yourselves, this may be long.
To make an attempt to get back on topic...
Elmida, I know what that fear feels like. I'm sorry to hear you're going through it.
We can talk in circles all day about "there's light at the end of the tunnel, I swear!" but it won't amount to much unless you jump and brace for the consequences. That doesn't mean "go get initiated right now," it just means that I think you should try to find a "next step" and just jump for it, even though you're afraid. It doesn't guarantee anything. But endlessly wondering and thinking about it is not likely to get you anywhere.
Do what thou wilt shall be the whole of the Law. Do. This means action. It doesn't mean "Sit around and debate about what to do next shall be the whole of the Law."
(Don't take that as chastisement or as an attack! I mean it to be motivating!
)Also, for what it's worth, you seem to understand English better than most Americans. Crowley can be difficult to understand for anyone, so don't feel bad about yourself if what he says just sails over your head. (His sense of humor in particular - he lived a century ago and I usually have no idea what the f*ck he is talking about when he cracks jokes.)
Perhaps try going out and getting some of the books recommended to you, and don't worry about perfectly understanding them. In fact, don't worry about remembering more than a few concepts per book. Like, "Okay, I just read Israel Regardie's A Garden of Pomegranates. What did that accomplish? Well, I know that the Tree of Life is a filing cabinet to classify my universe. That's all I really got out of that." That's fine! Just keep re-reading it every once in awhile and see if you can get anything else to make sense.
Just keep reading as much as you can and your mind will start making connections on its own. You will not suddenly grasp Thelema from reading a single book in a week or two - it comes very slowly. It's the kind of thing that creeps up on you over time.
It's the kind of thing that is learned by doing it, and doing it is done in baby steps at first. (By "at first" I mean what could be a long time in the beginning. Could be many months, or years.)
I know what you mean about rituals appearing silly. In fact, that mindset is pretty healthy. Try thinking of them as though you're acting out a play. Do you have any plays or songs that you can really get into, emotionally? Maybe a movie or two that really moves you? Try thinking about rituals as though they are art, and you are taking on a role and playing it out for the effect it has on you in the moment.
The more you can think of it as a drama, the better an effect it will have. In fact, just try approaching standardized rituals (like the banishing ritual) like this: "ok, this is a silly drama that I am going to perform, but it will have a certain effect on my subconsciousness and that is what I am trying to accomplish."
And of course record all the rituals you perform and stuff that you think happened as a result, so that you can look back over it later.
And ultimately, you will never really know what performing a ritual is like until you do it. I refuse to watch any videos of rituals because they cannot possibly do those rituals justice. If I am not there to feel the dramatic energy of a ritual, it's worthless to me except perhaps as a visual outline of when I am supposed to do this or that.
Try telling yourself that you are performing this ridiculous nonsense for the sake of your Holy Guardian Angel. And it will probably continue to seem like ridiculous nonsense for awhile.
@Elmida said
"One of the causes is my lack of skill in very advanced English, but the biggest, probably, is that I DO NOT UNDERSTAND MAGICK AND RITUALS.
[...]
I'm afraid that I'll never get the true essence of it because I find chanting and banishing pentagrams too silly to do. I'm afraid they'll find me an idiot and tell me to leave, to abandon ever becoming a Thelemite."
First of all, Thelemites are an extremely diverse group. If a Thelemite really called you an idiot and told you to leave, would that alone make you stop pursuing Thelema? Stick to your plans!
Secondly, ritual Magick is not much different from everyday life. Every intentional act is a Magical act. I mean that literally. Anything that you do that creates change in conformity with Will is a Magical act. (I challenge you to come up with things that aren't Magical acts!) As Crowley says, this includes banking, blowing your nose, etc. Ritual Magick is just a deliberate attempt to create change on a psychological level, or higher. It's not something that is understood by reading a few dozen books on it - it's something that is understood by devoting one's life to understanding, and doing it repeatedly over years and years.
Baby steps are okay. Don't hold yourself to such a high standard.
By the way, what's wrong with being silly?
@Elmida said
"So every time I read a Thelemic text or I try to look up information and I come across magick, the Tree of Life, names like Babalon and Nuit, part of me closes off everything. "
I know precisely what you mean. Try exploring that feeling, try to understand it. Keep trying to explore those things that repulse you, because they are likely the keys to your problems.
By the way, if you have a Facebook or something like that, feel to PM me if you want. I humbly offer my services as a friend and fellow aspirant. I know being in contact with other Thelemites was really important to me awhile ago (read as: last year), and I just want to extend the offer to keep in touch off of the forum.
93, 93/93.
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@Elmida said
" I know that starting with the actual Book of Law isn't a very good idea because it's hard to understand for beginners but even when I read 'simpler' text that explain aspects of it, it dazzles me and I just cannot comprehend.
"OK so don't read it for a while. Get * The Law Is For All* perhaps.
@Elmida said
" I've watched YouTube images of people performing the Gnostic Mass or other rituals and I can't help but feel distanced. I almost feel ashamed, even, because to me it seems so silly.
"I too might feel ashamed. A lot of stuff can be silly. Nobody's forcing you to do this on Youtube or in front of people.
@Elmida said
" every time I read a Thelemic text or I try to look up information and I come across magick, the Tree of Life, names like Babalon and Nuit, part of me closes off everything. And yet, the Liber Oz and Duty, the whole thought of Thelema feel so RIGHT. I DO believe in True Will, I DO believe in Liber Oz, I DO believe in the Holy Guardian Angel, but I CANNOT get myself to do rituals and suchlike.
"So then stop at the level you feel comfortable with. You don't need to accept everything at once, or ever. Doesn't Crowley say to question his teachings in Book 4? Nobody's forcing you to swallow everything, and nobody will be blaming you if you never "buy into" all of it.
@Elmida said
" been recommended to contact the OTO asap, but I simply don't dare to.
If I don't even dare do that, how am I ever going to contact the OTO?
"The OTO is an organization. Do you have to go to church to be Christian? No. You don't need to belong to OTO to practice magick or Thelema. If you get freaked out by OTO then don't go. I know various folks into thelema which have no OTO affiliation.
@Elmida said
" sorry about the chaos that is this post, but believe me, my mind is even worse.
"good luck getting your inner conflict sorted out soon. I suppose I'd sum up my advice by saying "give it a shot." But I think everyone agrees there are different legitimate paths out there and you may need to keep looking. And if you don't totally click with Thelema, perhaps explore ritual magick anyway. Or yoga. there's lot's of stuff to learn about.
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I was dreaming about grandfathers the other day, I never knew mine. I think of AC as my grandfather in many ways. I think that's is why for me, how I perceive Thelema and practice it in my life is so different from most of the other people I encounter.
I first encountered the Law as a preteen, but their was no way I could work with that depth. AC the golden dawn, dion fortune, HPB, are very very deep. So I started getting to know myself, and getting to know what I wanted out of life with what I could call baby steps.
AC is the undisputed father IMHO, of the entire American market of new age propaganda.....all of it, in some way or another he helped push out of the shadows, and we are the benificficaries of that. I used these tools to get to know myself, and my bretheren.I had a lot of fun learning about myself, what I like, what I don't, how I think, what makes me feel, I took a lot of tests, online to see what type of this or that I was, and where my nature lay
I see absolutely no issue with people who do not work with magick at all, but who are able to manifest the Law in their lives. I do not practice anything, at all right now.....except that each and every seemingly mundane action I take I do so mindfully, thankfully and with love.
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@Elmida said
"even though it's hard in my physical condition to do so properly (I'm obese, working hard on getting it fixed by getting more exercise and a healthy diet) and it has worked for me, in a way"
Can't speak for anyone else, but regular practise of the LBRP and Middle Pillar led to an awakening of instincts and tapping into my evolutionary drive. That eventually led to working out at the gym more, recovery of health, getting turned on to the Paleo Diet and losing weight.
Little scientific sidenote: the sex hormones (estrogen/testosterone) are responsible for inhibiting lipoprotein lipase, which is responsible for fat production. When people become obese, they become lethargic and libido drops - not only because they feel unattractive, but because these are side effects of fat production, which is regulated by genes. The solution is to eat foods that boost the sex hormones (or, even better, get off carbs and sugars completely).
If you ever run across a magician who is a little rotund, chances are, he's losing testosterone via sperm loss
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I dunno, at least for myself, I've been quite chubby and quite thin, masturbated compulsively and abstained, and I've observed no correlation between the frequency of masturbation and body weight.
I have, however, observed a very direct correlation between diet/exercise and body weight.
If every time you see a chubby person you want to picture them masturbating, don't let me stop you. However, the science of the matter is that while ejaculating causes subtle short-term drop in testosterone, sexual activity causes long-term increases in testosterone production.