Hypothetically speaking...
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StarHawk, an ecofeminist, goddess spirituality leader, who was heavily influenced by AC writings did write a very excellent SF book called The Fifth Sacred Thing. She is in fact attempting to make it a movie.
Having both a boy and girl child has been enlightening in ways I never could have expected. When my son was three he went to the border of my lawn, and the forest.....looking in to the forest he exclaimed that " in there it was a Ninja's World, because look at all the swords just laying on the ground". To this day, we still call that place Ninja World.
When I take the cub scouts hiking, or even just for a walk around the block, the boys have to pick up sticks. It is just engrained into them.....when I walk with the girls, they pick up pretty stones, leaves, nuts or flowers.
When a child plays with an object, they very much ensoul it, in a primitive way. Little girls will model and imitate the boys, playing with sticks, but they do not ensoul them. I am sure their are exceptions, but for the most part, girls only play with sticks because they want to be apart of the game
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I'd say a lot has changed since 1904
For one, Christianity has certainly lost much of it's 'death grip' on the mindset and morals of the general populace...
Consider then, the progress of science and our ever-increasing understanding of the world (universe!) around us.
How is this NOT the Aeon of the Child, as marked by our technological progress and rapid self-discovery?
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On the other hand, the dominant ideologies I see are Christianity, Islam, and atheism. All of those are of Osiris to varying degrees. Most of my perspective on the Aeons derives from the article JAE put up about them, connecting them to the Qabbalistic stages of the soul (<!-- l --><a class="postlink-local" href="http://heruraha.net/viewtopic.php?f=86&t=6153">viewtopic.php?f=86&t=6153</a><!-- l -->). As such, I don't see much progress in the direction of Neshamah, which would seem to entail a spreading interest in occultism and/or mysticism. Am I missing something? Only I don't see much of that happening. Aside from the fact that a lot of the knowledge is easier to get at via the Internet, and that there's a fair degree of innovation and variation occurring now, have we really progressed much farther?
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@veritas_in_nox said
"I don't see much progress in the direction of Neshamah, which would seem to entail a spreading interest in occultism and/or mysticism. Am I missing something?"
Yes, you are.
First, people's acess to Neshamah is hugely greater than it was in past centuries. In this sense, I mean isolated people - well under 1% of the population developing this in any significant way (which, however, is a great increase).
Second, that isn't going to emerge at the beginning of the aeon. (If it did, the aeon would be over in the blink of an eye.) Rather, it's the developmental task of the aeon. We're at the beginning of a (probably) centuries long, or more likely millennia-long (who knows?) period.
Here are the concluding sentendes from the version of that essay, as they finally appeared in Visions & Voices:
@Visions & Voices said
"And, as you surely will have anticipated by now, I define the Æon of Horus as that period of time within which the baseline level of functioning of the typical adult human will emerge as Neshamah, or what we generally call superconsciousness. Obviously, we are not there yet! Similarly, even in recent centuries we can see significant development in human ego formation, so that the Osiris Æon must be viewed as having been a gradual unfolding. Political liberty, for example, is a relatively new idea, measurable in mere centuries. The King Arthur myth, roughly a thousand years old, is a remarkable example of a solar king (symbolic of our baseline ego development) who, in all his majesty and glory, is still but a boy (as was collective ego-development of his time), still struggling with his relationships with Isis Æon ideas."
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@veritas_in_nox said
"I read a lot of SF, and it occurred to me that none of those novels predict a spiritual/occult revolution the way Thelema predicts for the later Aeon of Horus. So I was wondering-- what would happen in that situation? Imagine a few hundred years hence and the Aeonic change still doesn't appear to be coming anytime soon; how would we Thelemites reconcile that with our understanding of the Aeons?*
*I will admit that this question is partly motivated by the fact that I don't see anything like the seeds of the predicted change right now, and it's kinda worrying."
really? i see it all over the place. to me social media itself is a manifestation of the third chapter liber al. structures are collapsing left and right.
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@ldfriend56 said
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@veritas_in_nox said
"I read a lot of SF, and it occurred to me that none of those novels predict a spiritual/occult revolution the way Thelema predicts for the later Aeon of Horus. So I was wondering-- what would happen in that situation? Imagine a few hundred years hence and the Aeonic change still doesn't appear to be coming anytime soon; how would we Thelemites reconcile that with our understanding of the Aeons?**I will admit that this question is partly motivated by the fact that I don't see anything like the seeds of the predicted change right now, and it's kinda worrying."
really? i see it all over the place. to me social media itself is a manifestation of the third chapter liber al. structures are collapsing left and right."
A passing thought as I walk out the door. If things are collapsing, it will be more than obvious soon enough. It's possible any number of things are happening now, not collapse related, or only marginally related. Things change, and then again, some things don't. Not yet at any rate.
To quote an artist friend of mine: wait for it...
Love and Will
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oh i agree with the idea of letting it all unfold. however, from my POV, i DO see it unfolding - and quite elegantly I might add. I did not think that this would even be a somewhat controversial statement to make, I just assumed many thelemites could also see this.
True, change happens. But there is change that is gradual (like say genetic mutations and selection in evolution), and change that happens in paradigm shifts (like say what is happening in the middle east with the arab spring).
Culturally, this is indeed happening and to me the internet and social media is a manifestation of new aeon intelligence.
Just my thoughts, not prepared to write up a paper on it or anything.
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@ldfriend56 said
"i DO see it unfolding - and quite elegantly I might add. I did not think that this would even be a somewhat controversial statement to make, I just assumed many thelemites could also see this.
True, change happens. But there is change that is gradual (like say genetic mutations and selection in evolution), and change that happens in paradigm shifts (like say what is happening in the middle east with the arab spring).
Culturally, this is indeed happening and to me the internet and social media is a manifestation of new aeon intelligence."
Okay, I'm in a feisty mood.
These are pointless, unsubstantiated statements. They can't be proved, only asserted. They are the epitome of what it means to be general. They could apply to anytime and anyplace, and still sort of be true enough as an article of faith, but only in the most uninteresting and unhelpful way: "say man, this fire thing is a sure sign of the dawning aeon of Isis, don't you think?" Unless of course you have some specific point to make that you haven't made? If so, out with it! Otherwise...
Yeah, I do object. And no, being a Thelemite does not mean your banalities are obvious. IMHO, it generally means nothing is straightforward or obvious.
I shouldn't object. After all, I got nothing to gain from pointing these things out other than a bit of entertainment at your expense, or not at your expense. I guess it all depends on how much of a sense of humor you have.
But like I said, I'm in a mood!
Love and Will
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@RobertAllen said
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Okay, I'm in a feisty mood."
Wonderful! I was wondering when this party was going to get started.
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These are pointless, unsubstantiated statements. They can't be proved, only asserted."
I agree that they cannot be proven, for sure, they are just my intuitions based on current events wrapped in my understanding - however I did say it was just my opinion and i ain't gonna write up a paper on it. That Angelina Jolie is one of the most beautiful women in the world can also be asserted and not proven.
However, to say they are pointless?? Jabbergash my good man, that's quite subjective of you! I dare say that can't be proven that these statements are pointless!
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They are the epitome of what it means to be general. "Wonderful, I hit my mark then - as I made very general comments. Glad to see my communication is as top notch as ever!
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They could apply to anytime and anyplace, and still sort of be true enough as an article of faith, but only in the most uninteresting and unhelpful way: "say man, this fire thing is a sure sign of the dawning aeon of Isis, don't you think?" Unless of course you have some specific point to make that you haven't made? If so, out with it! Otherwise..."
nah, not really. In the past 30 years, our species has made dramatic differences that are indeed quite historical, not just for our species, but for the history of our planet- space migration, collective intelligence increase, expanded longevity. Our collective behaviors have changed more rapidly in the past 10 years than the previous 1000. It's not the validity of the highly exponential times we are in that your calling into question, what your really calling into question is if there is any validity to the concept of the Aeon of Horus.
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Yeah, I do object."
...and pretty well from what i can tell so far.
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And no, being a Thelemite does not mean your banalities are obvious. IMHO, it generally means nothing is straightforward or obvious."I thought being a thelemite was about being in harmony with true will?
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I shouldn't object. After all, I got nothing to gain from pointing these things out other than a bit of entertainment at your expense, or not at your expense. "
we can both foot the bill here if you want.
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I guess it all depends on how much of a sense of humor you have.
"let's wait and see, shall we?
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But like I said, I'm in a mood!
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like many forms of digestive issues, it too shall pass.
"Love and Will"
back@cha
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"Write, and find ecstasy in writing! Work, and be our bed in working!
—The Book of the Law"I understand the allure of not wanting to do the work, of wanting to be able to simply make mushy generalizations at will without any concern as to whether one is reinforcing stereotypes or the type of delusions common to inbred groups. But it doesn't make it right. And I don't think it is very Thelemic—at the very least we should challenge this kind of thing in our own ranks and raise the level of responsible debate. So much for my point of view.
I expect you to do the work. Of course, you can tell me to go to hell, but then that says something about the integrity of your beliefs, doesn't it?
@ldfriend56 said
"however I did say it was just my opinion and i ain't gonna write up a paper on it."
And this is part of the problem. You assume you can simply make statements here and that we will all just nod our heads in agreement because you assumed there were a set of precepts we should never challenge, not if we call ourselves Thelemites. For example:
@ldfriend56 said
"I did not think that this would even be a somewhat controversial statement to make, I just assumed many thelemites could also see this."
Your posts are a study in the use of fallacious argument and reasoning.
@ldfriend56 said
"nah, not really. In the past 30 years, our species has made dramatic differences that are indeed quite historical, not just for our species, but for the history of our planet- space migration, collective intelligence increase, expanded longevity. Our collective behaviors have changed more rapidly in the past 10 years than the previous 1000. It's not the validity of the highly exponential times we are in that your calling into question, what your really calling into question is if there is any validity to the concept of the Aeon of Horus."
The real problem here is not my position, but your analysis. Your argument seems to be that I am not a very good Thelemite because I challenged your assumptions. See the fallacy? You are taking refuge in what you imagine to be a community bias, and that is simply not a real defense. All you have is the idea that it just seems obvious to you. And frankly, that's not very much.
Structurally it is no different that the claims made by Family Radio and Harold Camping about the end of the world. All the same elements are present. The assumption that such statements about what is happening in the world can only have one explanation; that this explanation will receive the assent of everyone in the group and; anyone who challenges the fallacious arguments and lazy reasoning is not a true 'whatever'!
For the record. I have made no statements about the Age of Horus. Should the moment arrive where I am prepared to make claims or present an argument I will not waste any ones time with lazy platitudes.
See my point here?
Love and Will
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@RobertAllen said
"Write, and find ecstasy in writing! Work, and be our bed in working!
—The Book of the Law"OMG are you really going to quote from liber al to find support for your stance in the argument? or maybe this is your humor. okay ill work on finding it funny.
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I understand the allure of not wanting to do the work, of wanting to be able to simply make mushy generalizations at will without any concern as to whether one is reinforcing stereotypes or the type of delusions common to inbred groups."
WHAT MUSHY argument? What was mushy about it? what was even an argument about it?
If your having a hard time accepting that the Book of the Law is what it claims to be (a revelation of the universe and specifically the universe at this place and time) I'm not sure I can help you - however if you accept that as a premise, then naturally current events must be a result of what it speaks in some sense, other wise the entire claim of the book is what your calling into question. Not my impressions, intuitions, or general fun banter.
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But it doesn't make it right. And I don't think it is very Thelemic—at the very least we should challenge this kind of thing in our own ranks and raise the level of responsible debate."challenge what kind of thing? did I go off script? Someone posted they did not see much inspiration for sci - fi in liber al - this is not really a high quality discussion to start with. Is easy banter somehow anti-thelemic?
"So much for my point of view."
YES! I agree, so much for it! But I am generous and agree to your offer!
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I expect you to do the work. Of course, you can tell me to go to hell, but then that says something about the integrity of your beliefs, doesn't it?"
nah, not really - it doesnt tell you anything about my beliefs what so ever. But as I have not said and it never really even happened except inside of your ol noggin - you can continue on with that train of thought if you like on your spare time. Just don't blame me for what the 'oldfriend56' says in your head!
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You assume you can simply make statements here and that we will all just nod our heads in agreement because you assumed there were a set of precepts we should never challenge, not if we call ourselves Thelemites."wondering if you have any music to go with that position.
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Your posts are a study in the use of fallacious argument and reasoning."
nah, not really. it kinda appears to me your just projecting your own doubts about liber al.
The logic is simple
Liber al claims, via Crowley, to be a book that explains the universe specifically the time we are currently in. That's not my claim, that's big Al's
If the claim is true, then the times we are currently in are a result, or at least a fulfillment, of that verse. That is why I assume Thelemites, any friggin where, would come to see world events as an unfoldment of their own inner understanding from study liber al.
Can you explain to me how this logic is faulty? I would love to make the correction and expose any delusion I have and your assistance here is appreciated in advance.
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The real problem here is not my position, but your analysis."
The problem here is your reading web banter and interpreting it as an analysis. That's your own false idea about what I wrote. It's just all downhill from there...
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Your argument seems to be that I am not a very good Thelemite because I challenged your assumptions. "
huh? Where is that anywhere explicit in my statements on this forum? and personally I dont care if your a good thelemite or a bad thelemite - I'll let the thelemic santa claus worry about that one.
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See the fallacy?"
Yes, you made an assumption based on a false premise.
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You are taking refuge in what you imagine to be a community bias, and that is simply not a real defense. All you have is the idea that it just seems obvious to you. And frankly, that's not very much."
where do you get this from? really! ok i'm sorry, i forgot this must be a joke and you do this to all the noobs on the forum.
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Structurally it is no different that the claims made by Family Radio and Harold Camping about the end of the world. All the same elements are present. The assumption that such statements about what is happening in the world can only have one explanation; that this explanation will receive the assent of everyone in the group and; anyone who challenges the fallacious arguments and lazy reasoning is not a true 'whatever'!"
I'm glad this is giving you a forum to work this out.
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For the record. I have made no statements about the Age of Horus. Should the moment arrive where I am prepared to make claims or present an argument I will not waste any ones time with lazy platitudes.
See my point here?"
yes, it's very small.
