True Will: Why?
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The alternative hurts.
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So, the alternative hurts. Yeah, so? What about the psychopath who gets off hurting? A lot of things hurt that are good for us too. When I'm running my ass off and my legs and lungs are burning and my mind is yelling "STOP!", it may not feel good but its darn good for me.
I'd have to then ask what degree of hurt you imply. And I see how this can lead us around in circles, but I think that there ought to be a credible rational discourse that reflects the transcendent "True Will" imperative in this world of duality. Saying it's illusion doesn't work for me. Children getting blown up in Iraq is fucking ugly. It's evil to me.
I'm looking for a ethical statement for the common man and woman.
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You end one post calling ethics balderdash, and the next one insisting that you want an ethical argument. Which is it?
Is it so hard to grasp that both the individual and the rest of the community (or, for that matter, the universe) benefits when each of us (each conscious center) does that for which we are best suited, instead of doing something else instead?
I'm not interested in convincing people. It's against my religion. My scriptures advise me to put the matter in front of people to take or leave as they will, and then be done with it. "Here is our philosophy: Take it or leave it."
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I don't think I believe in this mythology of "True Will" the way I suspect you do. I don't believe I was born needing to figure out if I am to be an astronaut or a doctor of medicine or any such superior (higher) goal. In fact I see no mention of True Will in Liber AL, but that doesn't mean I won't accept a definition of it.
I'm a human being. That's my true will. I haven't any way to avoid it. I have to eat. I could choose to avoid that, but it would be the death of me. Having eaten, I have to defecate (which I do proudly and joyfully as it is the process of creating this earth I live on). I could attempt to avoid doing that, but I'm told it would do terrible things to my organs. I could choose to be a janitor and never marry if I so want. It would be no odds. There's no woman who was born just for me at some approximate angle to my birth, nor I for her. To do my True Will means to me that when I do decide a thing, it is I who has decided it and not some cosmic author. I learned beyond my childish ways and no longer cry "victim! I'm a victim! Stop tormenting me!"
Do what thou wilt is not a request or a suggestion, it is a Law. You are doing your will whether you know it or not. The injunction I have taken from Aiwass is to learn to know it - better than not.
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To me, it almost has to do with what I can only describe as the harsh side of Epicureanism.
Go attempt to make yourself completely happy. After all the impractical, unsustainable ideas of happiness have been revealed to be etherial and transitory, you can only find contentment in doing the one thing for which it seems as if you have been designed.
Simple pleasure versus complex pleasure.
I think many people imagine Will as a very intricate and specific job, even vocation, that someone needs to find and maintain - a very complex pleasure. I'm beginning to imagine Will as a much more simple pleasure - something you can do, and probably already do, for the simple joy of the perfect "flow" you experience while doing it.
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@fool said
"Why should we do our True Will? Because any answer seems to imply a moral imperative."
That's how it's usually taken, but more and more I'm seeing "Do what thou wilt shall be the whole of the Law" not as a moral imperative, but as a simple statement of fact. If you look at the social changes that have been happening in the world for the past century (changes happening faster in some parts of the world than others), you'll see we're moving from a world in which your path in life is determined for you by the social role into which you are born to a world where you have to make your own decisions -- whether you want to or not. It used to be that if you were born female, you would expect to get married and raise children according to the customs of your community. To seek to do otherwise incurred serious risks. If you were male, and your father was a baker, you would grow up to be a baker. Or you might be able to apprentice yourself to a candlestick maker or a butcher, but your choices were severely limited by the conditions of your birth. To seek to do otherwise was foolish. Likewise, your religion would be the religion of the community in which you were born and raised. To adopt other beliefs was dangerous, even deadly. Likewise the clothes you wore and the food you ate.
Today in much of the world, you can't be a conformist even if you want to. You can't just settle into the common religion of your community because there isn't one. There may not even be a common religion in your immediate family. You can't just comfortably pursue the life career that is laid out for you by tradition -- because there is none any more. You have to strike out on your own, choose your own destiny, captain your own soul.
From that perspective, "Do what thou wilt" is not a moral injunction, something we should live up to, but more of a warning: this is the kind of world we will all soon be living in, so deal with it. A "law" after all is something imposed on you from without, something you must live up to. In the new aeon, the only law is that you must make up your own mind, choose for yourself what to do and to believe, and be responsible for yourself. You have to live without anyone telling you how you have to live. You have no choice but to choose.
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@fool said
"Thanks for the replies.
@Jim: you didn't read my post close enough. I was juxtaposing my question of "if ethics is balderdash" with that of Crowley stating it is. I was challenging his statement."
I got that, but it also seemed you were endorsing it. - Sofrry I misunderstood that.
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"Is it so hard to grasp that both the individual and the rest of the community (or, for that matter, the universe) benefits when each of us (each conscious center) does that for which we are best suited, instead of doing something else instead?"
I grok this. Yet I see a simple and complex approach and I'm interested in what makes us Human. I'm interested in the role of Alpha male and Law giver.
I was watching a BBC series on Japanese Macaques that relax in a hot springs during the winter. An Alpha male roams the poolside tossing out or attacking any female or child that tries to enter; only those of certain bloodlines are allowed. Those that aren't allowed are facing a possible death sentence.
I interpret this in one sense as primates not possessing the cognizance to see that their resource can't be used up despite other monkeys who want to get it. To not adequately utilize a resource could spell the end for their whole community. Or, maybe they possess an innate understanding of relative Macaque standing and how that could play into their genetic gene pool if some of a certain bloodline are allowed to survive or given equal treatment. Not sure, as I'll have to see if this is being researched.
As a human though, if I saw freezing women and children on the poolside wanting to enter and i knew it was a potential matter of life and death I would definitely ensure their access even if it meant fighting someone else. I'm asking myself "Why? What drives me?" I've always stood up for those that can't defend themselves; even if it meant beating this shit out of the aggressor. I've never asked myself "Why" until now.
If I do it as a blind evolutionary impulse, is it genuine or authentic? Although raised a fundamentalist Xian, the 10 commandments and Jesus' exhortation to "turn the other cheek" (which i learned in theology school is an aramaic idiom for 'avoid trouble'), these things never stopped me from projecting my innate sense of justice onto a situation and getting involved if i had to. People said, "You should be a lawyer" because it was a defining feature of my character even as a young child. However, when i got older i learned the US Judicial system has little to do with "Justice". I admit it, I'm more a "take them out back and shoot them" type of guy. But I'm trying to coagulate an articulate and logically rational explanation of Why I choose to do what I do. I know it emanates from the transcendent, but in the world of 2, I am trying to ground it.
Because if there isn't a clear acknowledgement of "right and wrong", then why does it matter if Cayley Anthony killed her kid and got away with it, or that we invaded Iraq and killed thousands of innocent children. Why does it matter.
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Why does it matter?
matter, mater mother mom
I think it's evolution and the desire to keep life going,
and going and going....
Some day, I think
Carrot will wake up,
As much as Carrot can
And will make a choice
Maybe there will be to many rocks
Or not enough warmth
But carrot will change
And will no longer be Carrot that we know
And loveIt is said that some day carbon will not be the only form of conscious life.I think by conscious life forms making choices about equations that they find themselves in true will is not a noun, but more like an adverb, delishiously, happily, hungerly (Takamba, pardon my verbiage;).
What is it that makes Carrot Carrot, and not Potatoe?Isn't that true will.
And isnt that what matters? -
I struggle with these questions every day, but here are my two cents...
There's something specific that I'm made to do. I'll leave out any ideas of "intelligent design" - regardless of whether or not it was done by a specific, intelligent being, I am indeed here and alive, and have a unique set of circumstances and psychological (and physical!) makeup that fit me for some end. Resisting who I truly am doesn't just hurt, it sucks. And my psychology has been warped and twisted and all kinds of messed up since birth to fit my own delusions and whims about what I want to achieve, and what society and my parents want me to achieve, and all of these other things... so it's a really rough process to sort through all of the garbage and get to that.
I feel like a hypocrite even saying this stuff because of how hard I struggle with this concept.
Why do it?
Think about something you deeply regret... if you deeply regret nothing, then props to you, because I deeply regret a lot of things... I think that True Will is that thing that, lying on my death bed, I would regret not doing, even though I don't know what it is right now. And I don't have any conscious choice in choosing what that Will is... but it is, indeed.
Why do I want to do it? Partially out of fear of choosing any other path, knowing that I will collide with others and cause all of us undue pain; partially out of fear of failure, knowing that I'm literally built to do something and am avoiding it to go wing it elsewhere; partially out of a strong desire to get to the bottom of my own bullsh!t and learn to understand and control myself; partially out of an intense craving for something that I can't really give voice to; partially out of a hope, a dream, that I can find satisfaction, comfort, and motivation to continue on; finally, out of a hope, a dream, that there's a meaning behind the pain I've endured.
93, 93/93.
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If I may, I think of my true will (as I can think of it, on the level of my body and it's material life) in terms of the passage in Liber Al vel Legis, where it says something along the lines of: if you partake in a pleasure, increase in taste. Having established a stable food supply, I can no longer tolerate McDonalds all the time. I could be a "selfish" person and, say, not let the other monkeys into the pool, but it is a higher pleasure to allow everyone to have it, it makes me feel good about myself in a more tasteful and fulfilling way than an excess of hot baths could. Or, to go off of the running question, running hurts at one level, but leaves you with a deep, good feeling for the rest of the time, and satisfies a subconcious need to feel confidant about one's appearance. If I can enjoy sitting and resting my legs for most of my day, I then want to start to spend part of my time making that rest a better experience, through the pain of running. In exercise there is also even a deep satisfaction in the pain itself, and through experience one develops a sort of taste for pain, without being a masochist. I find muscle soreness and aerobic fatigue to be a good feeling a one level, but if I have knee or ankle problems there is nothing satisfying about that pain. That is how I live "Do as thou wilt" in my daily life. But I also see my "True Will" as the culmination of all my taste, as a sense of purpose is what I find to be one of the greatest, if not the greatest pleasure to be had. Part of "Do as thou wilt," I think, is to say to this: Who cares why this is so satisfying? Who cares why I want this? I want it, I am currently satisfied by working towards it, increasing my pleasure and taste in all things, and if the universe also seems to be designed to fulfill my Will, all the better!
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Me? I'm not sure what it really boils down to for me.
I don't really feel fulfilled unless I'm helping other people figure out their problems, giving them information about how to overcome them, teaching them about their own patterns and psychology. This was originally fulfilled by my early religion, but now that seems to have fallen into shadow.
I have a great job, wife, house, yard, dogs, cars, etc.., but unless I'm talking to people about the above kind of things, I'm just not happy. It's what I'm naturally good at - or it's at least where the unrefined talent lies.
Right now, I do a lot of combatting miserable thinking because I don't have a good avenue for the expression of my core functions. My job is helping students on academic probation, and only about 20% are actually trying and worthy of any assistance at all. I'm tired of wasting all my goods on people who don't really want them or seek them out themselves.
I'm on the path to becoming a counselor, but I'm not allowed yet - state licensing and ethics and whatnot. So, I'm on the way. I'm doing my Work to perform my Will, but I don't get a lot of freedom to actually do it anymore. It frustrating as hell.
I have every material thing I ever thought I would need to be happy, but I'm not in my function right now (my Will), and that makes it all seem somewhat valueless and pointless. But turning aside from the path that I'm on would seem to be leaving the Work. So, I continue, and I work to prepare myself. I've had a lot of illusions to banish along the way.
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"the thought manifests the word.
The word manifests as the deed.
The deed develops into habit.
And the habit hardens into character.
So watch the thought and it's ways with care.
And let it spring from love,
Born out of concern for all things"~Siddhartha Gautama
When I find myself, not paying attention
To my thoughts, to my actions
I find I feel out of resonanceBut when I turn my attention back to what I am doing
Right here and now
And giving that my full 100%
I got my groove back,Attention to the here and now is what makes the difference, and more importantly my attitude to what ever it is that is in this here and now.
If every single person minded their own business, became in resonance, the Choir would be deafening.
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“Why?” is about causes. Why is a duck? Because the egg came first? Because its molecules assumed a duckish form? To be prepared a l’Orange? To raise its young and further its species? Etc.
But perhaps it is simply just because. As Aristotle might remind us, perhaps a duck is primarily “for the sake of which it is what it is.”
Our culture is so utilitarian, and we look to how a thing is to be used to explain its value. One must, I think, "chunk up," to contemplate True Will.
I generally hew toward this epistemological view whenever contemplating the big question of, "Why?" And I assume that such contemplation is inherently flawed if it aims for an overly rational explanation. Being is bigger than the intellect, and if an ethics tries to cram True Will into a semantic box, then the effort must necessarily fail.
I suppose I see obedience to True Will like finding the next word in a great poem or the next note in a magnificent song. Or as Veronica puts it more succinctly, it is about:
@Veronica said
"...resonance...."
Which calls to mind the lovely words of Blaise Pascal:
Le cœur a ses raisons, que la raison ne connaît point. On le sent en mille choses. C'est le cœur qui sent Dieu, et non la raison. Voilà ce que c'est que la foi parfaite, Dieu sensible au cœur. (Translation: “The heart has its reasons, which Reason does not know. We feel it in a thousand things. It is the heart which feels God, and not Reason. This, then, is perfect faith: God felt in the heart.")
Replace “God,” with “Will,” and “faith” with something akin to “obedience,” (but a lot more fun) and you’d have a fair sense of where I come out on this one.
93, 93/93
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Be... cause...
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If you love mountain climbing, I would think your time is best spent climbing mountains and not wondering why it brings you such joy.
Though, I am the type of person who would question why it brings me such joy...
That is my choice, for the moment.
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The first part of the soul to reawaken is the animal soul. This part of the soul is predominantly blind animal instinct; hard core ego without intellect, capable only of fleeting moments of altruism towards other members of its pack etc.. Next the intellect awakens. As the intellect is more fully developed and awakened, eventually the result is an ability to conceive that the division between subject and object is an illusion created by the ego. In time, a third part of the soul will awaken (or the individual will awaken to it) leading to an ability to move beyond the intellect and experience this directly. For now though, back to the intellect. As the intellect matures, fleeting, instinctual, feelings of altruism towards others may be replaced by more enduring intellectual principles for having an altruistic feeling towards someone, or something, besides the ego self. Also, along with the intellect comes the ability for self reflection, and, some have, to a greater or lesser degree, been able to self reflect and resolve much of their inner conflict allowing for a calm sense of peace to emerge within, or, you could say, towards themselves. Therefore, in both intellectual and eventually more direct types of experiences, the sense of peace within and towards the self can extend beyond the ego self, to a greater, or lesser degree, based on the development of the individual, resulting in a subjective experience of peace and love applied within a broader context of self. From the ego's point of view, however, this would appear to be altruism towards "others."
True will has to do with the surrender of the small, limited, ego self, to something that is higher than the ego and, from the perspective of the ego, appears to be separate from itself. At some point, the ego self is forced to concede that it is not in control. There is a movement occurring, of the infinite All, and the small ego self is like a leaf being tossed around in the waves of a raging river that is furiously flowing along in it's own course, and the small ego self is not the cause of it, nor is it in control of it. What the ego doesn't understand, of course, is that the river is like a rope, and the ego is like a knot in the rope. When the ego surrenders, the knot is released, and the sense of self shifts from being the small, limited, knot of the ego, to being the rope, the raging river itself. When this happens, the sense of self moves into a oneness of being with that which previously seemed to be something outside and separate. This is when one is doing their True Will and the conflict and sense of separation between self and the raging river is resolved and released.
Also, some thoughts that I had swirling around in my head about this topic -
From: (http://unusmundus-melie.blogspot.com/2009/09/writing-by-me-freeform-thought.html)
The real you, deep inside of you, is infinite and immortal and exists before and after your body. This immortal you has no reason for existing on its own; in other words the infinite immortal you exists without cause. Meaning or reason implies a cause or an impetus for beginning. That which is infinite has no beginning and therefore has no reason or meaning or even consciousness for that matter unless it is able to see what it is not. There is another you, the finite you. The finite you definitely has a reason for existing, and that is to define and reaffirm the infinite immortal you. The infinite immortal you is able to give its unending life and ability to the finite mortal you, and the finite mortal you is able to give reason and meaning to the infinite immortal you by receiving these things. These two sides of you walk through eternity together, forever holding hands, comforting each other, and giving and receiving unending fulfillment from one another. The meaning of life is to give and receive unending fulfillment.
