True Will/Sexuality
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Do what thou wilt shall be the whole of the Law.
@Jim Eshelman said
"I very strongly recommend the following book, as the best thing I've ever found on the subject of discovering your True Will (though not at all under that language): Let Your Life Speak by Parker J. Palmer.""
After reading what was quoted and seeing I was able to get it for under $8 with shipping, I couldn't pass this one up. This work seems so fantastically concise, like another great book to grow old with and sink in repeated readings.
Thank you for sharing your strong recommendations, Jim!
EDIT: I thought I would note that this book was written only 13 years ago, and the author still seems to be alive and well today, by my measure; a rare property, generally speaking, for anything I would deem worthy of further study.
Love is the law, love under will.
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@SerpentSeed123 said
"I'm a newbie to Thelema [since November] and I'm really fascinated about discovering my True Will. I'm also curious about freeing the desires of my subconscious mind from the control of my conscious mind *.
How would one go about discovering their True Will? What books would you suggest I buy to start out with? I'm getting the Book of the Law obviously, what else?
93/93"
The answer, I'm afraid, is very simple: "F-ck and be f-cked!" (Forgive the censor.)
Ovid's "Ars Amatoria" is an excellent primer on the subject.
Edit:
Or, as he would say it: "To be loved, be lovable."
(I would quote the passage, at length, in the original Latin, but I'm afraid my copy of the work--and my brains--are half a planet away. So good luck. And use protection!)
Edit the second:
Okay, okay, I'm really having to dig deep here, as I have to copy-and-paste the translated Latin text on a Greek computer, but here's another gem I found online:
"Whether they give or refuse, it delights women just the same to have been asked. "
You should really check out the rest of the book. It was so good it got him banished from the Roman Empire. (Augustus was really such a prude! Probably a Virgo. [No offence, Jim.
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I was reading through this discussion and kept waiting for sex magick to come up. Normally I would try to pontificate here, but I am very new to my research in sex magick and it seems to have all kinds of different definitions and approach.
From the sexual enlightenment of tantra to the use of sexual energy (orgasm) in pursuit of non-sexual outcomes.
I would like to hear how folks on this forum would weigh in on the interplay of sex magick and the true will.
Any takers?
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@Dendron said
"I was reading through this discussion and kept waiting for sex magick to come up. Normally I would try to pontificate here, but I am very new to my research in sex magick and it seems to have all kinds of different definitions and approach.
From the sexual enlightenment of tantra to the use of sexual energy (orgasm) in pursuit of non-sexual outcomes.
I would like to hear how folks on this forum would weigh in on the interplay of sex magick and the true will.
Any takers?"
That's an entirely different topic - not at all responsive to the original post. Please start a new thread if you'd like to start a new topic.
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It's been ages since I last came on here ** and I just wanna thank all of you for your comments.
Looking back at some of this I seemed pretty irrational about the whole subject
I decided to bite the bullet and come out as Bisexual; which I did last month [got a bit of shit for it from some people, including my father] but to be honest, I'm becoming indifferent to people's reactions, I couldn't care a less.Now I'm learning to go with whats going on in the moment and not attaching much to it.
Oh, Frater Potater, your comments we're really informative, thanks for posting
Dendron, I'm only starting out, and Sex Magick [whilst appealing] it's a no go subject for me at the moment, I'd rather learn to swim before I jump into the deep end
Danica, I'm a Pisces, no doubt about it. Born 1st March 1992
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@SerpentSeed123 said
"Danica, I'm a Pisces, no doubt about it. Born 1st March 1992
"Dead in the middle of Aquarius - if one means the real zodiac. Reference:
www.solunars.com/interp/signs/sun.htm -
Blimey - Thanks Jim! Most of the qualities actually match me - I guess I don't need my Astrology For Dummies anymore
Here's what caught my eye:
- Interest in occult and recondite subjects.
- Agnostic, Natural Mysticism.
- Very musical (mostly vocal).
- Can judge others and themselves dispassionately.
- Sense of humor off the beaten track. Cynical at times.
- Strong opinions freely expressed.
- Behavior often seems unconventional but within certain personal bounds.
- Often seems to undermine relationships subconsciously.
- Dont feel they have anything for which to apologize.
- Drawn to group situations, but not joiners except to fulfill a purpose. Socializes selectively.
- Seems low key if not tired.
- Sensitive, easily hurt, can be terribly touchy (but often wont express the hurt). Worriers: fear the worst in a strenuous situation. Potentially high anxiety level.
- Fear of dying before accomplishing what they feel they should.
Spot on!
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- Fear of dying before accomplishing what they feel they should.*
I am an Aquarius too, but this one trait seems way off base, for me at a least. Does it truly resonate with you?
Any ideas on the source of this concept, I have not come across it myself in my limited readings?
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@Veronica said
"* Fear of dying before accomplishing what they feel they should.*
I am an Aquarius too, but this one trait seems way off base, for me at a least. "
you have the Sun angular - strong deep inner sense of own immortality.
and regarding the mentioned trait in Solar Aquarian - I see it also in those around me with close Sun-Uranus 'hard' aspects
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@Veronica said
"* Fear of dying before accomplishing what they feel they should.*
I am an Aquarius too, but this one trait seems way off base, for me at a least. Does it truly resonate with you?"
For me anyhow; not regularly and rarely but it does sometimes crop up in my mind.
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@danica said
"
@Veronica said
"* Fear of dying before accomplishing what they feel they should.*I am an Aquarius too, but this one trait seems way off base, for me at a least. "
you have the Sun angular - strong deep inner sense of own immortality.
and regarding the mentioned trait in Solar Aquarian - I see it also in those around me with close Sun-Uranus 'hard' aspects"
Thanks Danica, that makes sence, still have a lot to learn!
I did think about it, and while that original statement is off key for me. I did realize that if I do not have a great sence of accomplishment at the end of the day (like a lazy Memorial Day Holiday when I didn't do much strenuous work at all) I cannot go to bed, and I end up reading some textbook, reference manual, or working some obnoxious puzzle.
Which in my world is relative in a way to the original statement.
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Harking back to some previous posts in this thread, I found the comments on OCD interesting. My husband was severely OCD for several years, to the point of washing his hands in pure bleach. He made up his mind that he couldn't keep living like that, and by sheer force of will he stopped. What's annoying is, people don't believe it. OCD is for "life," or so modern medicine says. You never get over it, you can never force yourself out of it. But he did. People will tell him he must have never been really truly OCD. That p*sses him off, because he was worst case scenario. What makes it even more interesting is that he is the most powerful magician I know. I believe he is an example of how one can overcome "compulsions" and use the will to forge your own path, not the one dictated by mainstream society.
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@Jim Eshelman said
"
@SerpentSeed123 said
"Danica, I'm a Pisces, no doubt about it. Born 1st March 1992"Dead in the middle of Aquarius - if one means the real zodiac. Reference:
www.solunars.com/interp/signs/sun.htm"Jim, I have doubts about this one - I was born on March 28th, this makes me an Aries.
By the link you posted, I ought to be Pisces, however both the standard and the sidereal zodiac sign interpretations fit me more or less perfectly, so I can't really see why one would prefer one over the other. The difference should be even smaller when one casts a full natal chart and compares progressions and transits.
Can you please explain to me why one would be preferred over the other? I don't seem to be able to get a good grasp of how this works.
Also, why the shift in time? Why is Aries last? How does this fit into the Tarot? I always thought the Tarot was based on the Tropical Zodiac and houses, though admittedly, I know almost nothing about astrology.EDIT:
On second thought I'll go over the Pisces points from my perspective:"Unfamiliar and vague holds a special attraction for them. Many explorers (need to uncover the mystery). Foreign affairs, if politically motivated. Speculation, gambling."
I am not inclined to gambling very much, however I am an explorer type, so it's true.
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Wanderlust, restless. Often travels with a purpose (often missionaries, preachers, banner-wavers)."Yes, I am very impatient, and I do everything for a purpose.
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Subjective approach to life. Interest in the mystical."I would argue against having a subjective approach, since I always liked to get the 'truth' out of things, however yes, I do have an interest in the mystical since forever, so let's evaluate that as true.
"Make a production out of everything. Flair for dramatization. Actors. Very musical."
Not true, however I am very musical, and I do find that I can't spend a day without music. True again.
"Suave speech pleasant social address orators good teachers (community leaders)."
This is, definitely false. I find it hard to cope with social anxiety and I'm way too impatient to teach. I do make for a good manager, with my Mercury being the strongest planet of them all (on par or even above the Sun, I would say).
"Biasing, deceiving, conning (self and others). They believe every word that comes out of their own mouths (Gleadow)."
Not true. I am an honest to gods person, and this is false.
"Shifting loyalties. Strong religious drives, but tends to change religious (or other) affiliations at the drop of a hat. Judas Complex."
Not true.
"Idealists Visionaries Romanticists Dreamers (Everything will be fine). Some overcome phenomenally negative chart conditions to self-actualize through personal idealism (or refusing to bother themselves with the problems.)"
Very true, I do idealize everything.
"Sociable, amiable. In search of idealistic relationships. Wants any relationship to be story-bookish; when they finally realize it isnt, off they go at once."
More or less true.
"Hard to please by intimates; easy to please by non-intimate acquaintances."
Not true.
"Tend to create own problems (conjure psychic demons). Create conditions from which it is difficult to extricate themselves."
Not true, at least in my case - I had such hard problems that anything I could dream to conjure upon myself is just funny in comparison. And no, I don't have any imagination.
"Individualistic front. Actually, they only behave individualistically when selecting a pattern in which to live. PATTERN PEOPLE."
Not true, I tend to be quite chaotic, to say the least, and I am one of the most individualistic people one could meet (without the negative huge ego connotations, of course).
"Striving for predictability. They cast themselves in a specific role then block out all signals or hints that there could possibly be another way, another pattern by which to BE. Difficulty breaking out of negative patterns.
"I don't really strive to be predictable, however I do have a hard time breaking out of habits.
"Slavery motif. At best, consciously indentured to something. At worst, a persistent victim. (Cf. Andromeda near Pisces in the sky.)"
Kind of true, but I haven't seen this in my life much.
"Misoneistic. Traditional (not in a Saturnian way). Snobbish."
Snobbish, yes, the rest doesn't fit.
"Low pain threshold (physical or emotional). Sensitive."
The pain threshold varies on my mood, and I'm not very sensitive as far as emotions/feelings go. False.
"Lean toward high I.Q. absorbs knowledge without much difficulty (Fagan) good memories for facts."
True.
"Often too deadly serious for their own good. (Obsessive-compulsive if Saturn is strong.) Diluted (watered-down) sense of humor."
True.
"Do own jobs effectively and expect others to likewise do their share to keep the wheels turning. (Slave motif again.) "
Yes.
"Judgmental, holier than thou attitude."
Yes, quite often. And it's quite troubling when I want to downplay myself in social situations.
"They are strong (intense) you never know strong what, but they are strong (especially women; men less so). Strength is directly proportionate to their emotional attunement."
I will need an elaboration on that. Is that mental, emotional, or physical strength? My willpower is quite great when I am motivated, but otherwise I'm like 'meh' most of the time.
"Strong sex drive, sensuousness. Indulgent. Enjoy good food."
True, but I'm far from being indulgent.
"Alliances and affiliations shift and slide more easily than most. Vested participation in a group or alliance waxes and wanes (rhythmically?)."
Doesn't look like it to me, though I don't know, I would need a second perspective on this.
Well, 13/23 doesn't look like a great success for me, for all I know it could be the Barnum effect at work.
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This discussion should not be continued on this forum. It's appropriate place is on Solunars.net, which is devoted to the subject. It's also off-topic from the thread itself, and therefore is subject to being deleted without comment or notice. (The expectation here is that, while a bit of brief flitting off-topic naturally occurs, the thread should be brought back to its primary topic.)
However, I'll respond to this last post on the subject:
@Surg said
"Jim, I have doubts about this one - I was born on March 28th, this makes me an Aries."
No, it makes you a Pisces Sun - except in the fictional Equinox-based zodiac of pop astrology. The Sun doesn't reach the actual astrological constellation of Aries until mid-April.
And, of course, the Sun-sign is only one part of the horoscope. A very strong part, but only one part. It's not feasible to do a point-by-point rebuttal without the whole chart to reference.
"By the link you posted, I ought to be Pisces, however both the standard and the sidereal zodiac sign interpretations fit me more or less perfectly, so I can't really see why one would prefer one over the other."
While checking one's own chart is good to catch one's attention, that's not really the basis on which it's reasonable to decide. Anecdotal evidence is always a weak argument. But we have over half a century of statistical projects (some very small, some medium-sized and adequate, some huge and overwhelming) that document unequivocally where the actual boundaries of the signs are located. You may want to check the introductory essays available on www.solunars.com.
"Can you please explain to me why one would be preferred over the other? I don't seem to be able to get a good grasp of how this works."
See above (for this and other questions you asked).
"Why is Aries last?"
Convention. (It doesn't really matter what's first, last, or in the middle for most purposes.) Taurus was the original first sign of the zodiac.
"Is this fit into the Tarot? I always thought the Tarot was based on the Tropical Zodiac and houses, though admittedly, I know almost nothing about astrology."
Tarot's use of astrological symbols isn't exactly based on any kind of astrology. It's based on leveraging astrological symbols as a languagte for a different purpose.