Substance abuse support groups and being a Thelemite
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Dion Fortune describes the conception of "God" of monotheistic religions as going no higher than Tiphareth.
In short, what a Christian usually means when they say "God" would be equivalent to the occultist's Holy Guardian Angel.
Substituting the concept of the HGA for the more popular and less specific monotheistic term "God" in the above steps should resolve any seeming disparities.
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Thank you, that's really helpful.
I'm lucky enough to have had K&C with my HGA, and I'd love to speak with him again.
That works
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I agree with the point already made in response. What follows is terse and admittedly a little simplistic, but perhaps will help as bullet points. (Simplistic because the actual application of these principles is more complex and sometimes differently nuanced than my terse remarks might imply.)
@Frater Tenc said
"1. We admitted we were powerless over alcohol - that our lives had become unmanageable."
Note that these are describing matters regarding the personality - generally the only form of "I" that people recognize - not some "infinitely great abstract eternal spiritual expression of ourselves." That being the case, the above is simply stating, without resistance, what is so in the situation.
"2. Came to believe that a Power greater than ourselves could restore us to sanity."
As already addressed. The program at least nominally recognizes "God as you know [Him or whatever]," and the HGA is a useful access point. - The main thing here (brilliantly and precisely stated) is that the ego needs to recognize that there is something infinitely greater and infinitely more powerful than itself. (That's a basis of magick and mysticism, in any case.) - Given these definitions, #2 simply makes enormous sense as a starting point for methodology, given #1: The personality has proven itself powerless over certain life conditions, there is a power vastly more powerful than the personality and always accessible... so use it, rely on it, go for it!
"3. Made a decision to turn our will and our lives over to the care of God as we understood Him."
See the last sentence above. (Remember the definitions as we go.)
"4. Made a searching and fearless moral inventory of ourselves."
Duh, YEAH! "Know thyselfg" etc. Candid, accurate, "don't ignore all the stuff you hidfe from" self-assessment is a core foundation of personal progress in the Great Work.
"5. Admitted to God, to ourselves and to another human being the exact nature of our wrongs."
We bind up so much of our psychological energy in things we hide from - things bounded by shame, fear, guilt - and so much more of our power in the act of hiding them. Get clean. Confession has enormous value. Also, Hadit has a whole lot to say about this in Chapter 2.
"6. Were entirely ready to have God remove all these defects of character."
Basic premise of magick. If the above isn't true, then you are wasting your time and effort. Your will in the matter must be pure - unpolluted, uncompromised.
"7. Humbly asked Him to remove our shortcomings."
That's not far from a core passage in the oath I took in assuming the office of Visible Head of the Order. (I'm happy to admit that I can use all the help I can get from "God.")
"8. Made a list of all persons we had harmed, and became willing to make amends to them all."
Variation of #5 mostly. It's basic karma yoga, too - a very advanced practice in some respects.
"9. Made direct amends to such people wherever possible, except when to do so would injure them or others."
Karma yoga. (It balances YOU.)
"10. Continued to take personal inventory and when we were wrong promptly admitted it."
Self-evident, yes? (Wow, there's a lot of 6=5 Major Adept stuff here.)
"11. Sought through prayer and meditation to improve our conscious contact with God as we understood Him, praying only for knowledge of His will for us and the power to carry that out."
Having gotten this far, and learned the power and effectiveness of these formulae of magick, strengthen the link.
PS - "His Will," rightly understood, is not at odds with "my will." It a matter of conforming the personalities choices to the deeper understanding of our own path through the universe.
"12. Having had a spiritual awakening as the result of these steps, we tried to carry this message to alcoholics and to practice these principles in all our affairs."
I don't think this needs comment.
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Thank you, Jim. You really go out of your way to help answer my questions
I think I'll discuss the 11th step at a meeting tonight. Talk about the lack of difference between "my will" and "God's will" and maybe speak a bit about "True Will". Unfortunately from my experiences at AA meetings, and NA for that matter, they don't talk very often about spirituality. Maybe it's because they don't want to get people arguing about different beliefs and what is "right", and petty things like that.
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@Bereshith said
"Substituting the concept of the HGA for the more popular and less specific monotheistic term "God" in the above steps should resolve any seeming disparities."
I was going to say the same thing. Amazing how well that works most of the time.I remember reading a while back that OTO had a some kind of substance abuse support group. There was a mission statement that talked about the program being focused on how addiction and substance interfers with knowing and doing one's Will. But for the life of me I can't find any info about it now. Does anyone know anything about this?
On a less serious note, I'm reminded of how many times during our Oasis' monthly, public magick classes talk about A.'.A.'. has been misinterpreted as talk about Alcoholics Anonymous.
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You think you got problems. I actually wrote "the big blue book of the A.'.A.'.." <vbg>
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I was reluctant to initially reply but since some positive notions have been put forth I feel compelled to balance things out with my primarily negative experiences.
Though, I will say it may have a lot to do with the particular people running the programs in my area.
What troubles me the most is the polarized nature of the system, everything oh so neatly arranged in Black & White.
Constantly being told I was sick, powerless - that I would never be able to free my self from addiction.
Oh! But everything will be just fine and dandy if you stick to our per-approved addictions!
That three months of being clean meant nothing, because I made the decision to use.
Even thought the use re-enforced my decision to stay on the path I chose, in their eyes it was still a relapse.
It was still a fuck-up.
Those three months no longer had any meaning.
They gave me a nice , big fat 0 to wear.
Said I should go back to the Concentration Camps.. oh , sorry... "Re-Hab"My problem was abusing opiates.
Thus, I did not see a problem with smoking pot, or taking shrooms on occasion.
The later, I do twice, three times a year.
Pot, admittedly I smoke just about every day (night, really...).
However, I rarely do so for the sake of getting 'high' or in an attempt to avoid something (as I would do with the opiates).
It is more of a spiritual, sometimes social behavior (burnt offerings to Shiva, followed by a dance).
Unfortunately, it was not on their list of pre-approved drugs.
Nor did it fit into their concept of worshiping the Divine.Another instance of conflict is that I did not get rid of all my friends that use drugs.
While I did cut out many negative influences, those who could not control themselves, I did not see those people as really being my friends.
My friends were the ones who I could be open to about my problem.
That if I told them : "Listen, I have problems with opiates. Can you please not take or talk about them in my presence?"
Being my FRIENDS, they understood, and had no trouble being "clean" around me.
Sure, we did not hang out as much, but they were happy I was doing what I thought was right and were very supportive.I hope my sounding off does not color your experiences with the support groups.
If it is working for you, keep doing it.
A notion important to Thelema, in my opinion, is that "individual results may vary."
Perhaps my negative experiences were the result of me not really being ready to stop at the time.
Or, as stated earlier, a problem with the people running it.
A reaction against conformity...I am doing much better than I was before...
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@Jim Eshelman said
"You think you got problems. I actually wrote "the big blue book of the A.'.A.'.." <vbg>"
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Great topic! I have a lot I'd love to share on this topic; perhaps I will as I continue to post on the boards.
My recovery started the spiritual experience that led me to seek a new path in Thelema, jettisoning much of the Methodist Christianity I was raised with. (Official disclaimer: I speak from my own experience, not on behalf of any group) Alcoholics Anonymous gave me a lot of hope at the lowest point of my 23-yr old life, and gave me dozens of examples of individuals who had pursued spiritual growth with single-mindedness and detachment. "Delivered from lust of result" describes a number of the mentors I found "in the rooms". The goal of simply not drinking today takes the pressure off; working all 12 steps would come in time. The self-work done in the Fourth Step is tremendous. The feeling of freedom that came from such radical honesty still encourages me to make the leap of faith today and speakly frankly with others.
For me, there are real limitations to 12-step programs, and pitfalls, too. The system exists to jumpstart the spiritual engine, but I had to go outside AA to get mine running again. You're a flooded engine (flooded with boooze!), and the AA group takes you out of the chassis, drains you, cleans you, and gives you a jump
. What you find to fuel the engine is the next great step. The program provides dogma to drunks who don't know which way is up, but the focus on the drinking experience was thin gruel for me after a lot of time sober. I'd only drank for three years, so I was looking forward to escaping that part of my adulthood, not reliving it an hour at a time. With that said, I have almost always had a overwhelming feeling of peace in an AA meeting, like I was in exactly the right place I will meant to be at that point in time. However, towards the end of when I attended meetings regularly, I felt like I was hearing less and less that spoke to me where I was in my growth. I still have my Big Book and a meeting schedule next to my bed, should I need to go, but my self-work lately has been a satisfying substitute. 2.5 yrs later, I have not taken a drink.On the OP's topic, I believe in so many higher powers, but I have yet to have direct knowledge of the one that has helped me stay sober. As the oldtimers say to the agnostics, "Of course you can believe in a Higher Power - alcohol was your Higher Power, and it kicked your ass, so now you're here for a different one!"
Frater Tenc: thanks for sharing! Keep coming back, to the rooms and the boards, and I would love to connect by PM.
Uni_Verse: thanks for sharing! A lot of my Fourth Step work focused on what I perceive as similar things: having my progress judged by the months I'd been sober, which was beyond my control. Always good to hear your story.
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The fellowship of AA, NA and al-non has a proven track record of helping people who want help with addiction. Like all fellowships its members are what gives it its vitality. Some meetings are fun and uplifting, some are sad and heart breaking, buttons get pushed and reaction are natural. Not all meetings are the same, try many out to see if you can find a group of people you click with. If you find the right group, the formula for sucess is laid out in the twelve steps. They are spiritual and not religious and the steps seem quite Thelemic at heart.
I know many people who have had enormous help from this group. I also know many people who just quit drinking, but were still fixed in the addict mindset. the program of AA helps heal and change beliefs and can transform people. I know that for many reading the books on thier own, inspired more strenght then meetings, which can be uncomfortable.
One aspect of AA is the sponsorship, in which a person is given a helping hand in a way of a sympathic ear to share and talk with. Getting a sponsor can be challenging, and upsetting, so much that many people go for years with out gaining the full benifit of a mentor. -
I have been a member of Alcoholics Anonymous for 8 years.
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Thanks to everyone for their replies. Just in case anyone was curious, I'm still doing pretty damn well keeping myself away from addiction. Since the original post, I've once taken my Suboxone recreationally, had one alcoholic drink, and taken a prescription stimulant once. I have a little problem with complete abstinence. I think moderation is key. The last AA meeting I went to was last night, and I suddenly felt very uncomfortable in a room of people, most of whom I don't know at all, sharing their experiences and was almost afraid they would call on me to share myself. This is a radical change considering I spoke at almost every meeting I had gone to when I recently got sober, and felt no social anxiety. I blame it on the fact that I was "hypomanic" (bipolar elevated mood state) most of that time, so my self-esteem was inflated. I literally felt like everything and everyone around me was a part of me. Sadly in psychiatry this is considered problematic and I was promptly put on lithium carbonate. Now I'm on day 5 of taking it, and those feelings of ego dissolution have gone, along with feelings of restlessness and agitation and irritablity. Seems you just can't have it all. Everything in moderation, I suppose. But if I so desire I can always stop taking the lithium and maybe within 5 days I'll be feeling like a God again
A restless God.93
93/93 -
@Frater Tenc said
" I have a little problem with complete abstinence. I think moderation is key. "
without passing judgment and just commenting from my personal POV: in quitting the habit that I find destructive for the well-being of my whole being, moderation is not the key - only complete abstinence, until the addiction has been unrooted, solves the problem. (and it can't be unless I understand the inner need that was driving me to get addicted to something, as a substitution for some experience)
and then, afterwards, where there is actually no addiction, I can use/do that particular thing again, and do it in moderation - and if I'm a real artist maintain it that way. -
I think that some people has an obsessive compulsive disorder for booze or drugs. Best they stay away all together.
I do remember AC saying that if a person conquers the habit, then it is the best thing that could ever happen.I usually find that regular people do not understand that if i have only one drink- i am dead. Only one mouthful- and i will not stop drinking, i will fall off the true will and die within months. Many people do not understand addictive personalities.
I think the AA program and 12 steps have Thelema written all the way through it.
Remember, also, that this is not only the Aeon of Horus but of Maat too. The Aeon where new spiritual discoveries are being made, a system to fall back on when horus has finished.
Alcoholics Anonymous is a universal healing group- for the entirety of the human race.There is absolutely no doubt in my mind whatso ever that this and many more systems are here to help mankind into the next Aeon.
Q
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This thread is what lead me to this group. I was in and out of Alcoholics Anonymous for 10+ years but now have over 5 years of real positive quality of life sobriety since my last drink or drug. I must admit that actually working the 12 steps is what began me on a path of spiritual awakening. After haphazardly trying a few different common religions including the one I was raised with all with little or no results, I actually found some sort of connection with some form of God hanging out with a bunch of sober drunks and addicts. I didn't really choose AA. I was driven to AA by way of being beat into physical, mental and spiritual submission by my addictive demons.
AA not only saved my life, it gave me a chance to turn it into something magical and now everyday, good or bad, is nothing short of being wonderful and magnificent especially compared to before. That said, being born a non-conformist I have expanded on the 11th step and it has taken me places I deem inappropriate for discussion inside the meetings of AA.
About 4 years ago I starting reading books like "The Secret", (which I now personally find as a new hokey way to deliver an old magickal tool to the masses), The Abraham-Hicks Law of Attraction books/CDs, and a few other books on Intent, visualization and the Law of Attraction. I believe I have actually been successful in applying these techniques to my life as I have seen the types of positive changes in my career and my relationships that I had never experienced before. These positive results have led me even deeper into occult studies and practices and I have now found myself at the doorway to Thelema. So, now I find myself in an awkward position with my sponsor and have been contemplating how to let him in on my new found spiritual path. My perceived issues at stake are a) him being a practicing Methodist Christian and being unfamiliar or suspicious of anything occult and b) my ability to present these concepts to him in a coherent and meaningful way being relatively new to these ideas myself. This conversation with him is inevitably a matter of time and based on my past experiences with him I bet he will surprise me, and once again the fears are of my own making. We'll see.
Anyway, I love what has been said so far in this thread and I am so glad I am not the only one in recovery with these types of dilemmas. I will keep you guys posted
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