HGA Gender
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Thanks Jim, your comments really resonate with my own experiences, but I can barely put it into words, not so much because I can't recognise the experience, but because any words I might have are simply inadequate.
The YHVH formula is definitely becoming more apparent, and I have no problem at all in the apparent role reversal.
I think the the thing is right-relation, I feel completely under his power, again there is an echo of human sexuality in this (or is that the other way around) but it is something that is as yet tenuous and almost secret, so that I feel strange talking about it.I guess that the reason for Liber VII at this point is to ensure that the newly awakened daughter is made aware of her inheritance straight away, to ensure that she doesn't just go off and play amongst the flowers, which is something that all princesses like to do sometimes.
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@Archaeus said
"After some conversation on another thread it occurred to me to ask a simple question; What gender, if any, do peoples HGA manifest as, if any. Or more properly, what polarity do people assume in relation to their HGA?
"Female.
With a penchant towards asceticism and a rejection of the material world, She has come to represent,
at this juncture of the Work, my Union with that which I have rejected.@Archaeus said
"For me, when I was younger, before I have a clear conception of it, I imagined my HGA as female, which was obviously a projection on my part due to the fact that I am a heterosexual male and couldn't conceive of a Male HGA.
"This idea has occurred to me before.
Along the lines that, I might reject the idea of a Male HGA due to a negative projection relating to homosexuals.
Rather, dealing with the constant projection that I am homosexual...
I know all too well how it feels when a man just does not get that you are just not that into him...
@Archaeus said
"But these days I have a better relationship with A.'., and have "met" him once or twice, and it is quite obvious to me that as far as our relationship is concerned, I am very much the female. My experiences have so far been intensely intimate in a way that is analogous, but vastly superior to a sexual encounter."
I have come to recognize, that I am seeking samadhi with Shiva.
My HGA, in many ways, viewed as his consort, Shakti.One thing that I have pondered as of late is the 'sexual' nature of the energy exchange between us.
More, how people often describe it as sexual, though it does not quite feel that way to me.
Perhaps this is because I have never been able to open up my self to a female lover as I have to my HGA. -
@Uni-verse
Your description sounds a lot like what I used to do back when rationalising was necessary, the whole Shakti/Shiva thing is very familiar, it was a conscious decision on my part as I wanted to establish a relation with A.'. and had no idea where to begin. I think its a good way to establish an initial connection. Once I actually had direct experience of A.'. the reversal was total and I could no longer go back to my daydreams. The reality was so far beyond my wet dreams that they seem laughable now as attempts to save my tiny ego.
With me though, looking back it feels very idealistic, and my current experiences blow that all out of the water. Quite simply it has no bearing on my outward sexuality, and after the fact any fears I might have harboured about that are irrelevant.
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I should mention that this is only one of the dynamics that shifts and rearranges as one matures in the experience of the HGA.
For example: I entered the work with a preconception that "God is within," that the Angel had to be some intrinsic, deeper part of me. Then as a Probationer I was just lost on the subject. In Malkuth, the Angel was decisively "outside of me," in the surrounding texture of everything, talking to me from "outside." In Yesod, He was suddenly back in side - as if I'd just discovered that for the first time, and with the snap of a rubber band! - but now easily identifiable in the flow of energy and thought and sexuality within me. And so on. It swung back and forth for a while, went into different dimensions instead of that one, etc.
I sometimes call these shifts "micro dark nights of the soul" - the place where a well-established mode of relating to the HGA suddenly dries up, ceases to work - you just can't relate to it anymore - you can't "find" what was certain and evident before. And it's because your own formula has changed.
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Exactly.
Think of it compared to human relationships: You can have all the theories about a relationship or a partner, spouse, trick, whatever). Sometimes they're useful. But they rarely matter when it comes to the moment of relating.
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@Jim Eshelman said
"I sometimes call these shifts "micro dark nights of the soul" - the place where a well-established mode of relating to the HGA suddenly dries up, ceases to work - you just can't relate to it anymore - you can't "find" what was certain and evident before. And it's because your own formula has changed."
I can relate to this, seems things change.
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Originally female, and still primarily manifests as such; but as others have said, the HGA is all-encompassing and also transcending of gender; as I went on in my magical/spiritual development the HGA manifested at times as male, and has since shown me its true appearance, which is certainly genderless by any human measurement.
93!
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In my own experiences thus far, I have sensed my HGA as decidedly male. I grew up Christian, so that's one explanation why. Although, as I am 98% heterosexual (I don't want to say there are no homosexual elements in there), and I definitely fantasize about sex with females... I don't feel uncomfortable with this not really applying to my HGA.
I had one experience where I was quite high and drunk (a wonderful combination, I might add), and I perceived myself dissolving into Nuit.
I have tried to elaborate on this for a few minutes and I think it's beyond me. But, basically, in the process of dissolving into something, one is also filled with that something that one is dissolving into. The penetrative and receptive elements to the experience coexist.I also want to add that this was a very gentle, comfortable sensation; this was not Samadhi or anything like that. I don't know how these things play out on that sort of level.
93, 93/93.
Edited for phrasing.
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When i have visionary experiences with my HGA. It is always very very powerful, it gives me a sense of 'beauty' in the kabalistic term. It is a truly divine experience. It is as if the heavens have opened up and i have ascended. It is all happening.
It will be an experience you will never forget. - but then one you will rarely speak of.
I feel that, like many spiritual experiences- the first time is the most impactful- later experiences have less impact.
I am having trouble relating to the sexual relationship- or lack therof- that AC speaks of. I can however, relate to the Vau Heh relationship. I share certain similar characteristics to AC- but still can't relate to the erotic content.
Perhaps i should have a look at this
Q
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I perceive HGA as male but then again HGA can be and is anything and everything, depending on what your initiation level is.
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It has been very interesting to me to read this.
One thing I am trying to grasp from the other members sharings on their perceptions and interactions is my personal understanding.
Now maybe it is just my way of things, but I would say that for me Angelic beings, and specificially HGA is a geometric construct, and that this contruct changes its geometry, as well as the "colour" of its construct.
So sometimes it would be a very masculine red upward pyramid, while other times it would be a soft feminine Torus.
I am not sure if the construct changes in response to my own vibrational pattern and biochemical makeup, or if I change because of it. it is most likely a combination of of both, ebb and flow.
I am not saying that I visualize my HGA as a cube, or a dodecahedron on purpose, but just that it seems to me that at the core of It, the source is geometric ( bending sound/light?) and specific rays (frequencies of the colour spectrum).
I have never heard anyone else explain HGA this way, which is BTW extrememly intimate and sexual in many ways, and I guess I thought I would toss this out their to see if anyone had much to say about my impressions and expierence.
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Do what thou wilt shall be the whole of the Law.
My initial idea of it was as a female, because I like women better than men. lol
After a while with that in mind, it just didn't feel right, so as of now, I idealize it as "male".Love is the law, love under will.
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To me personally, before actually witnessing my own HGA, had never placed any thought as to whether it was male/female - I suppose part of me instinctively thought it was male though. But it turns out it was the opposite. My HGA manifest unto me as female.
Now, I've got my own suspicions as to why. I've heard different things like the HGA is always changing, etc...
But I believe the HGA manifests itself in a way to teach you something or humble you in a certain way. From my own example, I had been having some very negative association with the female gender in general, and had In a sense viewed them as "Inferior" in a way to males (Which now I see is utterly absurd) so therein my HGA appeared to me as female.
The only comparison I can really make to back up my suspicion is Crowley's encounter with Aiwass where he mentions Aiwass as a dark skinned man- I recall reading about an underlying affinity in Crowley which caused him to look down upon people of color. Thus his own HGA appeared as a man of color.
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@Jim Eshelman said
"I entered the work with a preconception that "God is within," that the Angel had to be some intrinsic, deeper part of me. Then as a Probationer I was just lost on the subject. In Malkuth, the Angel was decisively "outside of me," in the surrounding texture of everything, talking to me from "outside." In Yesod, He was suddenly back in side - as if I'd just discovered that for the first time, and with the snap of a rubber band! - but now easily identifiable in the flow of energy and thought and sexuality within me. And so on. It swung back and forth for a while, went into different dimensions instead of that one, etc."
Jim, was there any trend to which gender it appeared as and whether it was inside or outside? That would be interesting...
As for my self, I had my first contact a little less than a year ago. He appears to me as male. As a bisexual male myself, the homosexual element has never been an issue. Initially I took on two distinct roles in relation to Him: sexually passive (though I never felt "female") to a dominant lover, and also passive like a small child to a strong, loving father. In fact, they were so distinct that I didn't recognize that I was dealing with same entity for a while--I also didn't even recognize Him as my HGA for a long time either. Eventually, the two roles merged and I had to confront the strong, internal resistance to playing those two roles at once (implied incest and all that).
My first contacts were in the form of a totally external entity. Since then I've begun to slowly develop the ability to invoke his presence (based on intuition, analysis of a working name He gave me to call Him, and then trial and error). It's still quite hit and miss, but when it is successful, I usually experience His presence descending from above and then entering me to dwell inside for as long as I can maintain that state.
It's interesting that so many of the experiences here have involved a sexual union that would be uncomfortable if it had been with a human lover. Perhaps that in itself is a transformative process for many, also probably a lesson that this isn't like any other relationship you've ever had.
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@Iamus said
"Jim, was there any trend to which gender it appeared as and whether it was inside or outside? That would be interesting..."
No, that wasn't part of my process. It was always irrelevant. Perhaps because (like Crowley) I have a Virgo Sun, gender has seemed a flexible matter to me all my life. I was just giving this as an example of how the perception or relationship evolves.
I think mentioned above that in the specific work of invoking the HGA as a 5=6, the predominant impression was masculine; but that was hardly inflexible even then, and was primarily just at that stage.
"It's interesting that so many of the experiences here have involved a sexual union that would be uncomfortable if it had been with a human lover. Perhaps that in itself is a transformative process for many, also probably a lesson that this isn't like any other relationship you've ever had."
Or, let's say, a sexual relationship, whether it's experienced by a metaphor of a sexual act or not.
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It is important to point out tough, that while I refer to the relationship with the HGA as "Sexual", it in no way resembles a sexual relationship as most people would recognise it.
When I use the word sexual it is because it is the thing that sums up the mutual interpenetration and envelopment that I have experienced with A.'.
Sex in the normal sense is far to crude to be a really adequate symbol, it is but a faint echo, but it is the one experience common to most people, which is why I chose it.
Try not to mix it up with memories of sexual relations, with previous experiences in this area, or with Freudian phantasms, these have nothing to do with it.
