Blockages in moving forward.
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Do what thou wilt shall be the whole of the Law.
@kasper81 said
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@dknight93 said
"I don't want to be looked at like this is makes me feel like a bad person . I tried I don't want anything to do with her .It makes me get scared of my own self .I need this feeling to go away ."If you talk to other women you will see that no one woman is special. Stop thinking women are goddesses or angels. They are not: angels dont need to eat food and use a toilet to sh.it: angels and goddesses dont grow old or grow facial hair or complain and most importantly they are DISMEBODIED. If you go out and talk to different women .eg.. "excuse me i saw you over there i think you're really attractive and i would like your number" then you will get over this self inflicted masochistic unhealthy thrill, Be a man and do this and you will see in a few weeks how embarrasing this thread will look. This is a Thelema forum here we are hard on ourselves here we work hard and we test our limits we dont waste our time on lovesick trances. Do some magical work and do this other task
cheers"
That is so chauvinistic, to say the least. And it's funny you mentioned "this is a Thelema forum", since I find your "view" very un-Thelemic.
Love is the law, love under will.
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Do what thou wilt shall be the whole of the Law.
If you say so. But it's hard to believe, as you tend to despise women whenever you get the chance. I still disagree with you, regardless. How one is supposed to have a healthy and loving relationship without valuing his partner? And yes, I know the topic is about a guy who is not in a relationship anymore. I could go on explaining my point, but a word to the wise is enough.
Anyway, sorry for helping derailing the thread. You guys can go on now.
Love is the law, love under will.
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@kasper81 said
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@Veronica said
""if you talk to other women you will see that no one woman is special......"
Bull.....
Complete BS
If you communicate (talk and listen) to other HUMAN beings (regardless of sex) you will ( or should if you are a healthy person) see that that everyone is special."sigh
what?"!
Are you aware of what this thread is about? It's about a lovesick male stuck in a rut because he has put ONE PARTICULAR FEMALE on a pedestal. That is the context. Yknow he's in a socio sexual rut becasue he is sitting around thinking about her when he needs to talk to to other women and yeah people if you will but women especially and not on forums
dont you get that?"If you truelly live your life according to the statement you gave.....
Your gonna end up a sad lonely person.
Yet, for example
I live my life the exact opposite, seeing each person as special...always
And have handfuls of love, and beautiful relationships with my ex's....And when I have parted ways with people, I give my self a time to mourn and a time for reflection upon my own behaviors in a chance to refine them and clarify them.
In this time of reflection we sometimes improperly recondition our behaviors to unhealthy, unbalanced patterns of thought. I see your blanket statement that no woman is special, as a very good example of negative thought patterns that can quickly be reinforced and solidified into a very sad reality. yet in this time of reflection we also have the pssiblity to toss aside old behaviors that no longer serve us and adopt new thoughts ie my statement that everyone is special, and therefore the world is filled with great people just waiting to be met.
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@Avshalom Binyamin said
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We have compensatory personality traits that we've adopted to protect us from painful fears about ourselves. When something threatens this arrangement, we feel awful, until we are able to bolster that compensatory personality, and regain our normal pattern.A breakup is a painful situation that triggers a different reaction for each person, based on our personality. For you, the reaction is to try to gain information obsessively. This is a way of trying to gain control and power, in a situation that threatens your security. So you might ponder you reaction to flush out your root fears being triggered. They might be fears of being powerless or helpless. You could do exercises to help you become aware of these mechanisms, and begin to move to a deeper layer of yourself, where these fears and compensation methods don't matter."
True there was a sense of lack of trust that was created when she cheated on me and that triggered a lack of trust because I dint want to keep telling her that I did not trust her , I kept tabs on her instead .That made me feel like I was one step ahead .I realize now that this is not a competition and whats the point of being in love with someone if you have to be one step ahead of them .I realized these things too late .Three days after the breakup and came clean to her and she just wanted me to leave her alone and not to justify anything .
I learned from this whole experience that I must never hold back any of my feelings to create a false sense of security because the fact is that she loved me and she would have still loved me if I was not one step ahead.Gaining information is not going to give me any kind of control because Control is just an illusion in a relationship .I am working on my intuition instead .following it so that I don't have to live with regrets but I still find myself regretting not discovering these things a week or so ago I could have saved my relationship.
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You might find the Enneagram personality typing system useful, especially personality type 5. One of the core lessons for that personality is avoiding the temptation to replace actual experiences with mental constructs. That sounds pretty similar to what you're mentioning.
From personal experience, I've had a lot of issues with insecurity and self-doubt. I decide not to act on my feelings when they crop up. I sit with them, and just ponder the thread of causation. Like you are now. When I reach a deeper level of security, I make my decisions of how to act then. The insecurity hasn't gone away (it can still get triggered), but it does take back seat, and it can be disarmed.
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@kasper81 said
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@dknight93 said
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I don't want to be looked at like this is makes me feel like a bad person . I tried I don't want anything to do with her .It makes me get scared of my own self .I need this feeling to go away ."If you talk to other women you will see that no one woman is special. Stop thinking women are goddesses or angels. They are not: angels dont need to eat food and use a toilet to sh.it: angels and goddesses dont grow old or grow facial hair or complain and most importantly they are DISMEBODIED. If you go out and talk to different women .eg.. "excuse me i saw you over there i think you're really attractive and i would like your number" then you will get over this self inflicted masochistic unhealthy thrill, Be a man and do this and you will see in a few weeks how embarrasing this thread will look. This is a Thelema forum here we are hard on ourselves here we work hard and we test our limits we dont waste our time on lovesick trances. Do some magical work and do this other task
cheers"
You are right I did exaggerate her existence .But that does not mean that I am not on my way to meeting other women .You have to understand that I made her my whole life for over a year therefore reflection is necessary or I will have her again with another face . I let it sideline all my friends and therefore now I am first spending time reconnecting with them. I have understood never to give so much power to anybody again .Cause she had people at the back who just wanted to have fun but I never did because even before we got together I was only thinking about her .I realize now how unhealthy that is .And it is my life and no one else should have so much control over it but me .
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@Avshalom Binyamin said
"You might find the Enneagram personality typing system useful, especially personality type 5. One of the core lessons for that personality is avoiding the temptation to replace actual experiences with mental constructs. That sounds pretty similar to what you're mentioning.
From personal experience, I've had a lot of issues with insecurity and self-doubt. I decide not to act on my feelings when they crop up. I sit with them, and just ponder the thread of causation. Like you are now. When I reach a deeper level of security, I make my decisions of how to act then. The insecurity hasn't gone away (it can still get triggered), but it does take back seat, and it can be disarmed."
True I totally get what you mean .I reached the deeper level of security by acceptance . I was worried of what people would think of me and stuff but I really accepted myself because I did not want to be perfect or anything of the sort in peoples minds .I have the courage to know that I am a human being and I find ways of fulfilling my needs and they are not always right but if i dint try then how would I know .I am an eternal learner .I am both light and dark and I now find all of me beautiful .Your right the insecurity does pop up but thinking or meditating to eventually become lucid and then approaching the situation helps .
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@Uni_Verse said
"You ended a heavy entanglement,
A lot of energy to be redirected
Keeps falling into old habits
Now is the time to make new ones centered on Self"This is what I really want to do .I'm looking into ways of understanding my mental , my emotional and my physical body .Understand my belief system .Reprogram it to maximum efficiency and make myself strong enough to not be so naive to give how much I am getting to ensure a balance a little up and down is okay but trying to make it unconditional so I lose myself in it is not a good idea.I'm trying to build a belief system based on Aleister Crowley's way of thinking and the Thelemic religion which is free of insecurities and fear (except fear itself).Any advice or resources that would help me do this would be lovely
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They say it takes at least 6 months to get over the loss of a relationship. There is some brain chemistry involved, and it can be very much like attempting to break an addiction - and seeking to have it again - and seeking to break it again, etc.. So, yeah, there is a lot of emotional back and forth before somethings just finally "breaks" or "clicks" and you feel done. That addiction analogy (if it IS only an analogy and not a brain-chemical fact) is worth spending time with. You may need to make that addiction your enemy - if you are able yet to decide you don't want it and determine that you will not allow yourself to want it.
Being betrayed in a relationship can make a person very insecure and can lead to the great quest for "WHY? WHY? WHY!!" and "Can it be fixed and had again?!" It can be really difficult to overcome, and it can't be overcome unless the other person is very willing to work with the insecurity and mistrust they created. Such willingness isn't that common because it means the betrayer has to endure being constantly reminded of their betrayal and the insecurity it caused in the betrayed. There has to be a pretty serious commitment there on their part.
just thoughts...
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@kasper81 said
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@Veronica said
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the world is filled with great people just waiting to be met."exactly!! Ironically enough that is what i said i just expressed that idea in a different manner.
@Veronica said
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the world is filled with great people just waiting to be met."i know it you know it he (dknight93 the OP) doesn't....... so tell him to get out there and meet them
Now you get my point right?"ironically-you didnt say that.....but you meant to, which is what motivated me to respond to your sentence.
I try to refrain from telling people what to do, not my temperment.....
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@Bereshith said
"They say it takes at least 6 months to get over the loss of a relationship. There is some brain chemistry involved, and it can be very much like attempting to break an addiction - and seeking to have it again - and seeking to break it again, etc.. So, yeah, there is a lot of emotional back and forth before somethings just finally "breaks" or "clicks" and you feel done. That addiction analogy (if it IS only an analogy and not a brain-chemical fact) is worth spending time with. You may need to make that addiction your enemy - if you are able yet to decide you don't want it and determine that you will not allow yourself to want it.
Being betrayed in a relationship can make a person very insecure and can lead to the great quest for "WHY? WHY? WHY!!" and "Can it be fixed and had again?!" It can be really difficult to overcome, and it can't be overcome unless the other person is very willing to work with the insecurity and mistrust they created. Such willingness isn't that common because it means the betrayer has to endure being constantly reminded of their betrayal and the insecurity it caused in the betrayed. There has to be a pretty serious commitment there on their part.
just thoughts..."
I always believed she was someone who she was really not because of our past encounters and when she cheated on me .I was totally not prepared for it .This somehow could have lead to the fears of being powerless or helpless .Maybe she was right about expectations , that they do cause disappointment .Maybe it was the fear of disappointment that made me do the things I did.She said everybody lies everybody cheats but you don't go around monitoring the other person.What is okay to expect in a relationship ?
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What is okay to expect in a relationship? - The things to which you both explicitly agree. Every relationship is different. You each need to discover who the other is, what values you each have, what kind of relationship you each want etc.
There's no official rule book. Every couple needs to write their own.
Of course, this is hard to do with someone who is dishonest.
Some people are dishonest, though, because they feel required to agree to things that they don't really want to agree with (or even to act consistent with rules to which they've never agreed). This "involuntary agreement" will always lead to dishonesty and betrayal.
So, if one person just doesn't believe in the other person's expectations for sexual behavior (or anything else important), then that's totally OK. But they probably shouldn't enter into a relationship relationship that relies on those expectations.
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@dknight93 said
"I always believed she was someone who she was really not because of our past encounters and when she cheated on me .I was totally not prepared for it .This somehow could have lead to the fears of being powerless or helpless .Maybe she was right about expectations , that they do cause disappointment. Maybe it was the fear of disappointment that made me do the things I did.She said everybody lies everybody cheats but you don't go around monitoring the other person.What is okay to expect in a relationship ?"
Falling in love - believing that someone is more than they are - these are the universal experience of learning what an incredible gift and power love is while at the same time learning who you can trust with that. They say that when we fall in love, we [almost] always fall in love with an image of a person, not the reality. But in the beginning the image tends to be just so much greater than what is even possible in a mate. You seem really worried about what it must mean about you that you allowed yourself to so greatly love an illusion. But what does it mean about you? Something terrible?
Not the way I look at it. It could also mean that you were brave enough to risk going "all in" to a relationship. Some people can't - won't allow themselves to do so. But you did, and you're developing the experiences that will help you to discern both what you want from a relationship and what you may reasonably expect from another actual human being.
Now, to the point of her saying that cheating is to be expected, and to you wondering now what may even be reasonable to expect... You just gotta find someone who wants the same things that you want from a monogamous relationship. Happens all the time...
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No one is special. Everyone is special. Seems equivalent to me.
I thought the point of kasper81's comments was simply to suggest that demystifying this particular "other," would serve you well. And the technique he offered was talk to lots of others, wantonly, recklessly; get out of your head and go up to the pretty girl who stirs you strongly and give her a smile and say hi and engage in a conversation, and then do the same thing with the next one and the one after that. And soon the mystique won't be so impenetrable and you'll have an easier time letting go of the current infatuation.
And Veronica made the further point that talking to everyone, of all shapes, sizes and attractiveness to you would further the quest, the recognition of self in other, open you to a discovery of how beauty and love abounds.
I hear my own self at times in my life echoed in much of what you are saying. Welcome to the cuckoldary.
In addition to the book recommended by Avshalom, I'll also suggest David Schnarch's Passionate Marriage, a groundbreaking text on the dynamics of committed relationships that I found extremely instructive. His insights into "holding onto oneself," and how the crucible of a relationship pushes us in exactly the ways we need to be pushed are worthy of much reflection.
One of the things that reverberates for me in this confession of yours, dknight, is the anxiety you are experiencing, both in and out of the relationship. I hear you loud and clear. As you practice the exercises Jim outlines, I predict that you'll become more aware of this as a physical phenomena, which will help you regulate the mental chaos it can cause. If you can calm down your body's panicked, flight-or-flight, adrenaline-pumping and kidney exhausting fear response (which has been with you long before this lover), I think you'll feel the steam escape from your ears and your brain start to cool. Freed of that blockage, I think you'll find lots of new possibilities opening up for you.
Finally, there's nothing to be ashamed of for having had a strong reaction to infidelity. It's a heavy betrayal, and can traumatizes in the most vulnerable areas of the psyche, triggering all sorts of very normal, customary, predictable panic reactions and subliminal compensation. There are lots of good books out there on the topic of how to heal after the affair. All of them that have read suggest, as you seem coming to understand independently, that expressing your mistrust and fear in a forthright manner to the partner is the key to preserving the relationship. You may have missed the boat on doing so this time, but what I sense you've learned about yourself through the ordeal is valuable and to be cherished, and will serve you well when the next beloved shares herself with you.
Be well.
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@David S said
"In addition to the book recommended by Avshalom, I'll also suggest David Schnarch's Passionate Marriage, a groundbreaking text on the dynamics of committed relationships that I found extremely instructive."
Available on Kindle: www.amazon.com/Passionate-Marriage-Committed-Relationships-ebook/dp/B005V1ZJCW/ref=sr_1_1?s=digital-text&ie=UTF8&qid=1354214371&sr=1-1&keywords=passionate+marriage
BTW, I love the chapter titles, which include:
Nobody's Ready for Marriage - Marriage Makes You Ready for Marriage
Differentiation: Developing a Self-in-Relation
You Sexual Potential: Electric Sex!
Intimacy is Not for the Faint of Heart
Sexual Desire: Who Wants to Want?And that's just part 1.
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@Bereshith said
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@dknight93 said
"I always believed she was someone who she was really not because of our past encounters and when she cheated on me .I was totally not prepared for it .This somehow could have lead to the fears of being powerless or helpless .Maybe she was right about expectations , that they do cause disappointment. Maybe it was the fear of disappointment that made me do the things I did.She said everybody lies everybody cheats but you don't go around monitoring the other person.What is okay to expect in a relationship ?"Falling in love - believing that someone is more than they are - these are the universal experience of learning what an incredible gift and power love is while at the same time learning who you can trust with that. They say that when we fall in love, we [almost] always fall in love with an image of a person, not the reality. But in the beginning the image tends to be just so much greater than what is even possible in a mate. You seem really worried about what it must mean about you that you allowed yourself to so greatly love an illusion. But what does it mean about you? Something terrible?
Not the way I look at it. It could also mean that you were brave enough to risk going "all in" to a relationship. Some people can't - won't allow themselves to do so. But you did, and you're developing the experiences that will help you to discern both what you want from a relationship and what you may reasonably expect from another actual human being.
Now, to the point of her saying that cheating is to be expected, and to you wondering now what may even be reasonable to expect... You just gotta find someone who wants the same things that you want from a monogamous relationship. Happens all the time..."
Love needs two. It is a relationship, it is out
going, it is energy moving outwards. There is an object: the beloved. The object becomes more important than yourself. Your joy is in the object. If your beloved is happy, you are happy; you become part of the object. There is a kind of dependence, and the other is needed. Without the other you will feel lonely.It makes you so dependent it's crazy.At the end of it both the partners feel like .
We've been in this relationship for too long now and neither of us is learning or growing from it, spiritually or mentally, we're blocking each other soo much and it's soo important for us to realize this is because one person is too much in this relationship (In this case me), I let it effect so much more than it should and that's not healthy for us.I'm not going to avoid love. I'm going to go through with it, with all its pains. Yes, it hurts, but in fact, all those hurts strengthen me. Sometimes it really hurts badly, terribly, they provoke me, challenge me if I can be strong enough to think straight enough to move on, to make me less sleepy. Osho says "All those dangerous situations are necessary to make you alert. Love prepares the ground, and in the soil of love the seed of meditation can grow -- and only in the soil of love.
".How can you meditate with so much hurt and traces of anxiety.Love is the only possibility of losing yourself totally. When you are lost totally, then you will be able to remember what you have done.But that does not change anything .Your lost at the end.
Everything her is stopping me from moving on ? How is this love under will ?
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@dknight93 said
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Love needs two. It is a relationship, it is out
going, it is energy moving outwards. There is an object: the beloved. The object becomes more important than yourself. Your joy is in the object. If your beloved is happy, you are happy; you become part of the object. There is a kind of dependence, and the other is needed. Without the other you will feel lonely.It makes you so dependent it's crazy.At the end of it both the partners feel like .
We've been in this relationship for too long now and neither of us is learning or growing from it, spiritually or mentally, we're blocking each other soo much and it's soo important for us to realize this is because one person is too much in this relationship (In this case me), I let it effect so much more than it should and that's not healthy for us.I'm not going to avoid love. I'm going to go through with it, with all its pains. Yes, it hurts, but in fact, all those hurts strengthen me. Sometimes it really hurts badly, terribly, they provoke me, challenge me if I can be strong enough to think straight enough to move on, to make me less sleepy. Osho says "All those dangerous situations are necessary to make you alert. Love prepares the ground, and in the soil of love the seed of meditation can grow -- and only in the soil of love.
".How can you meditate with so much hurt and traces of anxiety.Love is the only possibility of losing yourself totally. When you are lost totally, then you will be able to remember what you have done.But that does not change anything .Your lost at the end.
Everything her is stopping me from moving on ? How is this love under will ?"
Some things....
You seem to be in a lot of emotional pain. There's no pithy comment or bit of wisdom that will change that immediately. You can't shortcut the grieving process. You have to go through it. Have you ever seen Kubler-Ross's "Stages of Grief"? It doesn't really make anyone feel better, but it does reveal a common process that many people experience, and it may reveal some light at the end of the tunnel. I encourage you to check it out.
I'd also like to recommend a book that helped me greatly: [www.amazon.com/Coming-Apart-Relationships-Through-Ending/dp/1573241776:3jdw4n8p]](http://www.amazon.com/Coming-Apart-Relationships-Through-Ending/dp/1573241776:3jdw4n8p). I found it very helpful, and it's usually in the Self-Help section of your local bookstore. It's worth the money and the read.
But, I mean... You have to go through the emotions of loss. They are simply unavoidable. You'll probably feel the same way everyday for a while. After some time, though, you get exhausted by it, and then you get tired of it - tired of attempting to revisit those golden memories and having it trigger nothing but floods of grief. You recontact that love within yourself, but it only causes grief instead of joy. But it's still the love you're touching. But... it gets old. It slowly loses its power, and you begin desiring to make another, better attempt as another, better you with another, better partner.
After a while, you'll catch a day where you only thought about it once. Then you'll regress. Then you'll catch another day where you don't think about it at all. Then you'll regress a couple of days. Then you may have two days where you don't think about it. Back and forth... until one day... a lot of people describe (including myself) getting to a point where it just "breaks." And you feel done with it. And it all lifts. But, honestly, that's probably months away, and there's no shortening it.
Try not to worry about how you currently match up to "will under love" and all the Thelemic ideals. You're grieving, and you can't be expected to just decide and stop feeling. That would actually be a symptom that something is going unhealthily wrong. Instead, consider your ideals as something you are learning about through experience and evolving toward ever more successfully, even through this experience.
In the mean time, take walks or find some other way to get your body moving to burn off some of those stagnant chemicals and energies created by all the anxiety. Try creating an affirmation of what you know yourself to be beyond your current circumstances or an affirmation that describes yourself in the present as you would like to happily be in the future. That kind of stuff works, but you'll argue with it at first. Just keep directing your mind to it for several minutes a day. It'll eventually win.
All the best, man.
