James Wasserman's new book / Guther question
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When J Daniel Gunther is first introduced , Wasserman writes that he first became aware of him through Weiser were Gunther made himslef known as an AA contact point, and after corresponding with Motta he accepted him as a superior. My question is what was the nature of Daniel's original claim as an AA contact point in the USA? I had always assumed that Dan had been initiated by Motta, but it seems like Dan was already an AA member befor even meeting Motta, but sthere is no explanation of the nature of the original claim anywhere in the book. How was Dan a contact point for AA and when he had not met or written to Motta yet? Or was his claim entirely self appointed, which I'm starting to think as it s not addressed in the book.
many thanks
93 93/93
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When J Daniel Gunther is first introduced , Wasserman writes that he first became aware of him through Weiser were Gunther made himslef known as an AA contact point, and after corresponding with Motta he accepted him as a superior. My question is what was the nature of Daniel's original claim as an AA contact point in the USA? I had always assumed that Dan had been initiated by Motta, but it seems like Dan was already an AA member befor even meeting Motta, but sthere is no explanation of the nature of the original claim anywhere in the book. How was Dan a contact point for AA and when he had not met or written to Motta yet? Or was his claim entirely self appointed, which I'm starting to think as it s not addressed in the book.
many thanks
93 93/93
Um
your cut and paste makes it look like you wrote what was in my post
When I first came across Crowley in my teens I was more interested in the AA than anything else, I didn't even pay Liber Al that much attention for a long time, but that's another story. Anyway, at that time if you wanted to contact the AA you contacted outercol as that was the only one extant, those being the days before internet.
Anyway, I tried for years to get a response, never did, and now I'm glad I didn't or I'd probably have ended up believing the same script as the rest of them.
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When J Daniel Gunther is first introduced , Wasserman writes that he first became aware of him through Weiser were Gunther made himslef known as an AA contact point, and after corresponding with Motta he accepted him as a superior. My question is what was the nature of Daniel's original claim as an AA contact point in the USA? I had always assumed that Dan had been initiated by Motta, but it seems like Dan was already an AA member befor even meeting Motta, but sthere is no explanation of the nature of the original claim anywhere in the book. How was Dan a contact point for AA and when he had not met or written to Motta yet? Or was his claim entirely self appointed, which I'm starting to think as it s not addressed in the book.
many thanks
93 93/93
[attachment=0:z0b3z6cx]<!-- ia0 -->BP Bearings.gif<!-- ia0 -->[/attachment:z0b3z6cx]
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When J Daniel Gunther is first introduced , Wasserman writes that he first became aware of him through Weiser were Gunther made himslef known as an AA contact point, and after corresponding with Motta he accepted him as a superior. My question is what was the nature of Daniel's original claim as an AA contact point in the USA? I had always assumed that Dan had been initiated by Motta, but it seems like Dan was already an AA member befor even meeting Motta, but sthere is no explanation of the nature of the original claim anywhere in the book. How was Dan a contact point for AA and when he had not met or written to Motta yet? Or was his claim entirely self appointed, which I'm starting to think as it s not addressed in the book.
many thanks
93 93/93
@Jim Eshelman said
"[attachment=0:1ufvtbbf]<!-- ia0 -->BP Bearings.gif<!-- ia0 -->[/attachment:1ufvtbbf]"
Yeah I know, the best thing to do is to just get on with the work and let people rant and shout all they want, unfortunately some of us in the Outer College still get hacked off when those who should know better start rocking the boat for petty ego benefits.
As an OTO member I should in theory look up to guys like this, but this kind of thing makes me wonder what kind of vipers nest I'm in. I too have had Motta lineage people distance themselves from me over the subject.
I'll be honest, posting my thoughts in this thread is a way of letting off steam, and I feel that this is a necessary thing to do sometimes because bottling it all up for the sake of being silent tends to make it into a bigger bogey than it is.
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When J Daniel Gunther is first introduced , Wasserman writes that he first became aware of him through Weiser were Gunther made himslef known as an AA contact point, and after corresponding with Motta he accepted him as a superior. My question is what was the nature of Daniel's original claim as an AA contact point in the USA? I had always assumed that Dan had been initiated by Motta, but it seems like Dan was already an AA member befor even meeting Motta, but sthere is no explanation of the nature of the original claim anywhere in the book. How was Dan a contact point for AA and when he had not met or written to Motta yet? Or was his claim entirely self appointed, which I'm starting to think as it s not addressed in the book.
many thanks
93 93/93
Speaking on the issue - and not pointing it, in the present thread, at any individuals per se - I think today I would just repeat word for word what I wrote in my editorial in Black Pearl No. 8, under the title, "Purple Beyond Purple."
Feel free to look it up. (Or not, of course.)
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93-
When J Daniel Gunther is first introduced , Wasserman writes that he first became aware of him through Weiser were Gunther made himslef known as an AA contact point, and after corresponding with Motta he accepted him as a superior. My question is what was the nature of Daniel's original claim as an AA contact point in the USA? I had always assumed that Dan had been initiated by Motta, but it seems like Dan was already an AA member befor even meeting Motta, but sthere is no explanation of the nature of the original claim anywhere in the book. How was Dan a contact point for AA and when he had not met or written to Motta yet? Or was his claim entirely self appointed, which I'm starting to think as it s not addressed in the book.
many thanks
93 93/93
@draco210 said
"I guess my posts may sound like ranting, but Silence is the enemy of Truth."
(Without labelling your posts, but commenting on the principle...)
Yes, and ranting is also the enemy of Truth.
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93-
When J Daniel Gunther is first introduced , Wasserman writes that he first became aware of him through Weiser were Gunther made himslef known as an AA contact point, and after corresponding with Motta he accepted him as a superior. My question is what was the nature of Daniel's original claim as an AA contact point in the USA? I had always assumed that Dan had been initiated by Motta, but it seems like Dan was already an AA member befor even meeting Motta, but sthere is no explanation of the nature of the original claim anywhere in the book. How was Dan a contact point for AA and when he had not met or written to Motta yet? Or was his claim entirely self appointed, which I'm starting to think as it s not addressed in the book.
many thanks
93 93/93
@Jim Eshelman said
"Speaking on the issue - and not pointing it, in the present thread, at any individuals per se - I think today I would just repeat word for word what I wrote in my editorial in Black Pearl No. 8, under the title, "Purple Beyond Purple."
Feel free to look it up. (Or not, of course.)"
Thanks Jim, that's really helpful. As I said, as I am also a member of OTO (although for how much longer I don't know) this kind of thing grates on me, and may eventually bring me to leave that Order to pursue my work in peace. For myself I have no qualms with anybody claiming to represent the AA, that kind of thing is between themselves and their Holy Guardian Angel. What gets me angry is the way people who should be seen as Brethren come up with the kind of rubbish that we see pop up from time to time.
It really does look as if they are trying hard to hide their nakedness by accusing others of the fault. -
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When J Daniel Gunther is first introduced , Wasserman writes that he first became aware of him through Weiser were Gunther made himslef known as an AA contact point, and after corresponding with Motta he accepted him as a superior. My question is what was the nature of Daniel's original claim as an AA contact point in the USA? I had always assumed that Dan had been initiated by Motta, but it seems like Dan was already an AA member befor even meeting Motta, but sthere is no explanation of the nature of the original claim anywhere in the book. How was Dan a contact point for AA and when he had not met or written to Motta yet? Or was his claim entirely self appointed, which I'm starting to think as it s not addressed in the book.
many thanks
93 93/93
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93-
When J Daniel Gunther is first introduced , Wasserman writes that he first became aware of him through Weiser were Gunther made himslef known as an AA contact point, and after corresponding with Motta he accepted him as a superior. My question is what was the nature of Daniel's original claim as an AA contact point in the USA? I had always assumed that Dan had been initiated by Motta, but it seems like Dan was already an AA member befor even meeting Motta, but sthere is no explanation of the nature of the original claim anywhere in the book. How was Dan a contact point for AA and when he had not met or written to Motta yet? Or was his claim entirely self appointed, which I'm starting to think as it s not addressed in the book.
many thanks
93 93/93
@Patthana Gati said
"Would you mind giving a link too? Or posting the relevant bits as I'm not really a fan of small homegrown mags. Not even my own... so finding a black pearl volume is not high on my agenda."
Download free from <!-- w --><a class="postlink" href="http://www.thelema.org/publications">www.thelema.org/publications</a><!-- w -->
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When J Daniel Gunther is first introduced , Wasserman writes that he first became aware of him through Weiser were Gunther made himslef known as an AA contact point, and after corresponding with Motta he accepted him as a superior. My question is what was the nature of Daniel's original claim as an AA contact point in the USA? I had always assumed that Dan had been initiated by Motta, but it seems like Dan was already an AA member befor even meeting Motta, but sthere is no explanation of the nature of the original claim anywhere in the book. How was Dan a contact point for AA and when he had not met or written to Motta yet? Or was his claim entirely self appointed, which I'm starting to think as it s not addressed in the book.
many thanks
93 93/93
@Archaeus said
"I too have had Motta lineage people distance themselves from me over the subject."
Motta must be spinning in his grave, being associated with people who he either expelled or who resigned from the Order when he was in charge!
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93-
When J Daniel Gunther is first introduced , Wasserman writes that he first became aware of him through Weiser were Gunther made himslef known as an AA contact point, and after corresponding with Motta he accepted him as a superior. My question is what was the nature of Daniel's original claim as an AA contact point in the USA? I had always assumed that Dan had been initiated by Motta, but it seems like Dan was already an AA member befor even meeting Motta, but sthere is no explanation of the nature of the original claim anywhere in the book. How was Dan a contact point for AA and when he had not met or written to Motta yet? Or was his claim entirely self appointed, which I'm starting to think as it s not addressed in the book.
many thanks
93 93/93
@Patthana Gati said
"I have been disappointed by the talk Wasserman posted on Youtube on Thursday. www.youtube.com/watch?v=TmDsxyTc3a8"
Is there any truth to the rumour that just after the recording was stopped, an unidentified individual stands up and with a cry of "Allahu Akbar!" throws a sandal at him?
