The Neophyte period
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This is more of a curiosity or technical question than anything.
The minimum amount of time one spends in 1=10 is eight months. Was this an arbitrary decision of Crowley's? How viable is it for one to memorize a chapter of Liber VII, build the Pantacle, study the Neophyte formula, practice solid divination, develop the powers of the Sphinx and master the astral plane &c within eight freaking months?
Another reason eight months seem odd is because OSIS says "No attainment soever is officially recognised by the A∴A∴ unless the immediate inferior of the person in question has been fitted by him to take his place." So, how is the Neophyte who would theoretically advance to Zelator in the minimum period of eight months going to produce a Neophyte to substitute him if the minimum amount of time for a Probationer is one year? I hope I'm making myself clear. To sum it up: A. is a Neophyte and is competent enough to complete his assigned Work in eight months, but he needs B. the Probationer to become a Neophyte himself before A. can become a Zelator, which is impossible because B. needs one year, which would jeopardize A.'s advancement. So, my point is, is the eight months thing completely impracticable?
Yes, I overthink stuff.
@Pan DCLXVI said
"i have one question about neophyte grade initiation. i have no temple where i can initiation. i have no room for temple. so, what can i do? can i go to forest and there make this rite?"
This is a question for your Zelator. How does your lineage handle things of this sort?
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This is more of a curiosity or technical question than anything.
The minimum amount of time one spends in 1=10 is eight months. Was this an arbitrary decision of Crowley's? How viable is it for one to memorize a chapter of Liber VII, build the Pantacle, study the Neophyte formula, practice solid divination, develop the powers of the Sphinx and master the astral plane &c within eight freaking months?
Another reason eight months seem odd is because OSIS says "No attainment soever is officially recognised by the A∴A∴ unless the immediate inferior of the person in question has been fitted by him to take his place." So, how is the Neophyte who would theoretically advance to Zelator in the minimum period of eight months going to produce a Neophyte to substitute him if the minimum amount of time for a Probationer is one year? I hope I'm making myself clear. To sum it up: A. is a Neophyte and is competent enough to complete his assigned Work in eight months, but he needs B. the Probationer to become a Neophyte himself before A. can become a Zelator, which is impossible because B. needs one year, which would jeopardize A.'s advancement. So, my point is, is the eight months thing completely impracticable?
Yes, I overthink stuff.
@Patrick Ossoski said
"How viable is it for one to memorize a chapter of Liber VII, build the Pantacle, study the Neophyte formula, practice solid divination, develop the powers of the Sphinx and master the astral plane &c within eight freaking months?"
Not very -- but I'm sure someone could do it -- not me, that's for sure.
Depending on the testing devised by the Zelator, it could be even more than what you include above. In my lineage, the testing is pretty intense to move on from Neophyte...certain operations have to be completed, recorded, and proven "objectively." They are not specifically spelled out in Liber 185, or in any published place that I know of -- but implied in the part about specifically tested "in his [her] power of Journeying in the Spirit Vision."
YAY!!!
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This is more of a curiosity or technical question than anything.
The minimum amount of time one spends in 1=10 is eight months. Was this an arbitrary decision of Crowley's? How viable is it for one to memorize a chapter of Liber VII, build the Pantacle, study the Neophyte formula, practice solid divination, develop the powers of the Sphinx and master the astral plane &c within eight freaking months?
Another reason eight months seem odd is because OSIS says "No attainment soever is officially recognised by the A∴A∴ unless the immediate inferior of the person in question has been fitted by him to take his place." So, how is the Neophyte who would theoretically advance to Zelator in the minimum period of eight months going to produce a Neophyte to substitute him if the minimum amount of time for a Probationer is one year? I hope I'm making myself clear. To sum it up: A. is a Neophyte and is competent enough to complete his assigned Work in eight months, but he needs B. the Probationer to become a Neophyte himself before A. can become a Zelator, which is impossible because B. needs one year, which would jeopardize A.'s advancement. So, my point is, is the eight months thing completely impracticable?
Yes, I overthink stuff.
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This is more of a curiosity or technical question than anything.
The minimum amount of time one spends in 1=10 is eight months. Was this an arbitrary decision of Crowley's? How viable is it for one to memorize a chapter of Liber VII, build the Pantacle, study the Neophyte formula, practice solid divination, develop the powers of the Sphinx and master the astral plane &c within eight freaking months?
Another reason eight months seem odd is because OSIS says "No attainment soever is officially recognised by the A∴A∴ unless the immediate inferior of the person in question has been fitted by him to take his place." So, how is the Neophyte who would theoretically advance to Zelator in the minimum period of eight months going to produce a Neophyte to substitute him if the minimum amount of time for a Probationer is one year? I hope I'm making myself clear. To sum it up: A. is a Neophyte and is competent enough to complete his assigned Work in eight months, but he needs B. the Probationer to become a Neophyte himself before A. can become a Zelator, which is impossible because B. needs one year, which would jeopardize A.'s advancement. So, my point is, is the eight months thing completely impracticable?
Yes, I overthink stuff.
@Patrick Ossoski said
"Good luck. "
Luck has nothing to do with it.
Skill, my friend. And an innate humility... -
This is more of a curiosity or technical question than anything.
The minimum amount of time one spends in 1=10 is eight months. Was this an arbitrary decision of Crowley's? How viable is it for one to memorize a chapter of Liber VII, build the Pantacle, study the Neophyte formula, practice solid divination, develop the powers of the Sphinx and master the astral plane &c within eight freaking months?
Another reason eight months seem odd is because OSIS says "No attainment soever is officially recognised by the A∴A∴ unless the immediate inferior of the person in question has been fitted by him to take his place." So, how is the Neophyte who would theoretically advance to Zelator in the minimum period of eight months going to produce a Neophyte to substitute him if the minimum amount of time for a Probationer is one year? I hope I'm making myself clear. To sum it up: A. is a Neophyte and is competent enough to complete his assigned Work in eight months, but he needs B. the Probationer to become a Neophyte himself before A. can become a Zelator, which is impossible because B. needs one year, which would jeopardize A.'s advancement. So, my point is, is the eight months thing completely impracticable?
Yes, I overthink stuff.
@Frater 639 said
"Luck has nothing to do with it.
Skill, my friend. And an innate humility... "I'm not even sure it takes skill. It takes perseverance, repetition, etc.
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This is more of a curiosity or technical question than anything.
The minimum amount of time one spends in 1=10 is eight months. Was this an arbitrary decision of Crowley's? How viable is it for one to memorize a chapter of Liber VII, build the Pantacle, study the Neophyte formula, practice solid divination, develop the powers of the Sphinx and master the astral plane &c within eight freaking months?
Another reason eight months seem odd is because OSIS says "No attainment soever is officially recognised by the A∴A∴ unless the immediate inferior of the person in question has been fitted by him to take his place." So, how is the Neophyte who would theoretically advance to Zelator in the minimum period of eight months going to produce a Neophyte to substitute him if the minimum amount of time for a Probationer is one year? I hope I'm making myself clear. To sum it up: A. is a Neophyte and is competent enough to complete his assigned Work in eight months, but he needs B. the Probationer to become a Neophyte himself before A. can become a Zelator, which is impossible because B. needs one year, which would jeopardize A.'s advancement. So, my point is, is the eight months thing completely impracticable?
Yes, I overthink stuff.
@Jim Eshelman said
"I'm not even sure it takes skill. It takes perseverance, repetition, etc."
Agreed. But I think repetition creates the skill. Guitar playing is a skill. Mountaineering is a skill.
*Consciousness is a symptom of disease.
All that moves well moves without will.
All skillfulness, all strain, all intention is contrary to ease.
Practise a thousand times, and it becomes difficult; a thousand thousand, and it becomes easy; a thousand thousand times a thousand thousand, and it is no longer Thou that doeth it, but It that doeth itself through thee. Not until then is that which is done well done.
Thus spoke FRATER PERDURABO as he leapt from rock to rock of the moraine without ever casting his eyes upon the ground.
*Or maybe, it just looks like a skill to the outside observer. On the inside, it feels like Life.
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This is more of a curiosity or technical question than anything.
The minimum amount of time one spends in 1=10 is eight months. Was this an arbitrary decision of Crowley's? How viable is it for one to memorize a chapter of Liber VII, build the Pantacle, study the Neophyte formula, practice solid divination, develop the powers of the Sphinx and master the astral plane &c within eight freaking months?
Another reason eight months seem odd is because OSIS says "No attainment soever is officially recognised by the A∴A∴ unless the immediate inferior of the person in question has been fitted by him to take his place." So, how is the Neophyte who would theoretically advance to Zelator in the minimum period of eight months going to produce a Neophyte to substitute him if the minimum amount of time for a Probationer is one year? I hope I'm making myself clear. To sum it up: A. is a Neophyte and is competent enough to complete his assigned Work in eight months, but he needs B. the Probationer to become a Neophyte himself before A. can become a Zelator, which is impossible because B. needs one year, which would jeopardize A.'s advancement. So, my point is, is the eight months thing completely impracticable?
Yes, I overthink stuff.
Right. What I was really saying is that skill is the consequence, not the method.
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This is more of a curiosity or technical question than anything.
The minimum amount of time one spends in 1=10 is eight months. Was this an arbitrary decision of Crowley's? How viable is it for one to memorize a chapter of Liber VII, build the Pantacle, study the Neophyte formula, practice solid divination, develop the powers of the Sphinx and master the astral plane &c within eight freaking months?
Another reason eight months seem odd is because OSIS says "No attainment soever is officially recognised by the A∴A∴ unless the immediate inferior of the person in question has been fitted by him to take his place." So, how is the Neophyte who would theoretically advance to Zelator in the minimum period of eight months going to produce a Neophyte to substitute him if the minimum amount of time for a Probationer is one year? I hope I'm making myself clear. To sum it up: A. is a Neophyte and is competent enough to complete his assigned Work in eight months, but he needs B. the Probationer to become a Neophyte himself before A. can become a Zelator, which is impossible because B. needs one year, which would jeopardize A.'s advancement. So, my point is, is the eight months thing completely impracticable?
Yes, I overthink stuff.
-
This is more of a curiosity or technical question than anything.
The minimum amount of time one spends in 1=10 is eight months. Was this an arbitrary decision of Crowley's? How viable is it for one to memorize a chapter of Liber VII, build the Pantacle, study the Neophyte formula, practice solid divination, develop the powers of the Sphinx and master the astral plane &c within eight freaking months?
Another reason eight months seem odd is because OSIS says "No attainment soever is officially recognised by the A∴A∴ unless the immediate inferior of the person in question has been fitted by him to take his place." So, how is the Neophyte who would theoretically advance to Zelator in the minimum period of eight months going to produce a Neophyte to substitute him if the minimum amount of time for a Probationer is one year? I hope I'm making myself clear. To sum it up: A. is a Neophyte and is competent enough to complete his assigned Work in eight months, but he needs B. the Probationer to become a Neophyte himself before A. can become a Zelator, which is impossible because B. needs one year, which would jeopardize A.'s advancement. So, my point is, is the eight months thing completely impracticable?
Yes, I overthink stuff.
@Patrick Ossoski said
"Oh, that was interesting.
PS: Being skillful is lucky. (In a certain way.)"
I can get down with that POV.@Jim Eshelman said
"Right. What I was really saying is that skill is the consequence, not the method.
"Agreed!
EDIT:
"Not luck, skill" is just a cocky thing I used to say when playing basketball.
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This is more of a curiosity or technical question than anything.
The minimum amount of time one spends in 1=10 is eight months. Was this an arbitrary decision of Crowley's? How viable is it for one to memorize a chapter of Liber VII, build the Pantacle, study the Neophyte formula, practice solid divination, develop the powers of the Sphinx and master the astral plane &c within eight freaking months?
Another reason eight months seem odd is because OSIS says "No attainment soever is officially recognised by the A∴A∴ unless the immediate inferior of the person in question has been fitted by him to take his place." So, how is the Neophyte who would theoretically advance to Zelator in the minimum period of eight months going to produce a Neophyte to substitute him if the minimum amount of time for a Probationer is one year? I hope I'm making myself clear. To sum it up: A. is a Neophyte and is competent enough to complete his assigned Work in eight months, but he needs B. the Probationer to become a Neophyte himself before A. can become a Zelator, which is impossible because B. needs one year, which would jeopardize A.'s advancement. So, my point is, is the eight months thing completely impracticable?
Yes, I overthink stuff.
@Jim Eshelman said
"
@Pan DCLXVI said
"i have one question about neophyte grade initiation. i have no temple where i can initiation. i have no room for temple. so, what can i do? can i go to forest and there make this rite?"This is a question for your Zelator. How does your lineage handle things of this sort?"
so, my question was about, that i dont have a space for rituals and please tell me what can i do? may i doing self-initiation ritual in the forest? if i can do make these ritual in forest, how to make a symbolic temple that i dont abolish law of ritual.
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This is more of a curiosity or technical question than anything.
The minimum amount of time one spends in 1=10 is eight months. Was this an arbitrary decision of Crowley's? How viable is it for one to memorize a chapter of Liber VII, build the Pantacle, study the Neophyte formula, practice solid divination, develop the powers of the Sphinx and master the astral plane &c within eight freaking months?
Another reason eight months seem odd is because OSIS says "No attainment soever is officially recognised by the A∴A∴ unless the immediate inferior of the person in question has been fitted by him to take his place." So, how is the Neophyte who would theoretically advance to Zelator in the minimum period of eight months going to produce a Neophyte to substitute him if the minimum amount of time for a Probationer is one year? I hope I'm making myself clear. To sum it up: A. is a Neophyte and is competent enough to complete his assigned Work in eight months, but he needs B. the Probationer to become a Neophyte himself before A. can become a Zelator, which is impossible because B. needs one year, which would jeopardize A.'s advancement. So, my point is, is the eight months thing completely impracticable?
Yes, I overthink stuff.
I'm guessing, since you haven't said...
Do you have a Zelator? You began by speaking of specific steps in a specific grade of a specific system, so I've been answering on the assumption that you are a member of that specific system.
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This is more of a curiosity or technical question than anything.
The minimum amount of time one spends in 1=10 is eight months. Was this an arbitrary decision of Crowley's? How viable is it for one to memorize a chapter of Liber VII, build the Pantacle, study the Neophyte formula, practice solid divination, develop the powers of the Sphinx and master the astral plane &c within eight freaking months?
Another reason eight months seem odd is because OSIS says "No attainment soever is officially recognised by the A∴A∴ unless the immediate inferior of the person in question has been fitted by him to take his place." So, how is the Neophyte who would theoretically advance to Zelator in the minimum period of eight months going to produce a Neophyte to substitute him if the minimum amount of time for a Probationer is one year? I hope I'm making myself clear. To sum it up: A. is a Neophyte and is competent enough to complete his assigned Work in eight months, but he needs B. the Probationer to become a Neophyte himself before A. can become a Zelator, which is impossible because B. needs one year, which would jeopardize A.'s advancement. So, my point is, is the eight months thing completely impracticable?
Yes, I overthink stuff.
@Pan DCLXVI said
"
@Jim Eshelman said
"
@Pan DCLXVI said
"i have one question about neophyte grade initiation. i have no temple where i can initiation. i have no room for temple. so, what can i do? can i go to forest and there make this rite?"This is a question for your Zelator. How does your lineage handle things of this sort?"
so, my question was about, that i dont have a space for rituals and please tell me what can i do? may i doing self-initiation ritual in the forest? if i can do make these ritual in forest, how to make a symbolic temple that i dont abolish law of ritual."
The forest is an excellent place for Works of Magick. Could you describe the specific ritual you have in mind?
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This is more of a curiosity or technical question than anything.
The minimum amount of time one spends in 1=10 is eight months. Was this an arbitrary decision of Crowley's? How viable is it for one to memorize a chapter of Liber VII, build the Pantacle, study the Neophyte formula, practice solid divination, develop the powers of the Sphinx and master the astral plane &c within eight freaking months?
Another reason eight months seem odd is because OSIS says "No attainment soever is officially recognised by the A∴A∴ unless the immediate inferior of the person in question has been fitted by him to take his place." So, how is the Neophyte who would theoretically advance to Zelator in the minimum period of eight months going to produce a Neophyte to substitute him if the minimum amount of time for a Probationer is one year? I hope I'm making myself clear. To sum it up: A. is a Neophyte and is competent enough to complete his assigned Work in eight months, but he needs B. the Probationer to become a Neophyte himself before A. can become a Zelator, which is impossible because B. needs one year, which would jeopardize A.'s advancement. So, my point is, is the eight months thing completely impracticable?
Yes, I overthink stuff.