Proof of Divine Providence
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@Jason R said
"There was ONE foundational verse, or "direction" that led to this result, and that was the "pasting the sheets". It is perfectly logical to take these as the pages of the Book of Thoth"
There's nothing in the text to suggest that this refers to the tarot, that (even if it were a reference to the tarot) it's a reference to the major arcana plus the four suits, that it's an instruction to lay out the cards as a grid, that it's an instruction to assign numbers to the cards, that it's an instruction to "reduce" these numbers, that it's an instruction to add them, that it's an instruction to produce "squares" and a "tablet."
All of those things are incredibly arbitrary choices that have nothing to do with the original verse.
You took one vague phrase, which could be twisted into lots of different sets of instructions, chose one of these sets of instructions, and, after performing operations with numbers under one version of that set, produced a bunch of numbers that were significant to Crowley. All of that tells us nothing about the original vague phrase.
I think that you and I have gone about as far as we can go on this point. Unless you have anything new to add, we'll just have to let readers make up their own minds what your number games say -- if anything -- about the Book of the Law.
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@Los said
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@Jason R said
"There was ONE foundational verse, or "direction" that led to this result, and that was the "pasting the sheets". It is perfectly logical to take these as the pages of the Book of Thoth"There's nothing in the text to suggest that this refers to the tarot, that (even if it were a reference to the tarot) it's a reference to the major arcana plus the four suits, that it's an instruction to lay out the cards as a grid, that it's an instruction to assign numbers to the cards, that it's an instruction to "reduce" these numbers, that it's an instruction to add them, that it's an instruction to produce "squares" and a "tablet."
All of those things are incredibly arbitrary choices that have nothing to do with the original verse.
You took one vague phrase, which could be twisted into lots of different sets of instructions, chose one of these sets of instructions, and, after performing operations with numbers under one version of that set, produced a bunch of numbers that were significant to Crowley. All of that tells us nothing about the original vague phrase.
I think that you and I have gone about as far as we can go on this point. Unless you have anything new to add, we'll just have to let readers make up their own minds what your number games say -- if anything -- about the Book of the Law."
Oh except the further clues that clearly mention the English Alphabet (you know "ORDER & VALUE"), and further "keys" that helped unlock it, you know, the ones on the page of the original Ms., with a strange GRAPH drawn on it as well? Hmmm, interesting, a GRAPH on the page discussing "keys" (clues) to a puzzle.
Of course the verse was the main foundation, or starting point for the idea, refined easily by what other clues were given. Wasn't hard, and the obvious suggestion one gets from this idea is BLENDING the 5 & 6, since of course the Tarot is divided up onto two halves as such. Doesn't take a genius really to put it together.
You STILL, I see avoid my main point I explained; which is how the factors described (regardless of my interpretation) could just be chance? Statistical probability that such a logical, reasonable, solution to the riddle, could produce in ONE calculation:
- 666,418, & 111
- 5,14,23 at same time as above numbers being the order numbers for Greek letters totalling to 666
- That these numbers are all in Liber L together, as in this single calculation result.
- And at same instant have complete Thelemic symbolic consistency.
- Resemble the familiar divisions bore out by these numbers to the Enochian scheme.
AND once again, remind everyone, you STILL refuse (and cannot) give me even ONE comparable example of this so called contrived, arbitrary, imaginary "number game."Plus it DOES provide much to the elucidation of Liber L., starting with THIS TABLET being the "secret house", "one palace" with "four gates", "a secret fourfold word", and a EQ! Its ALL right there if you look.
Just not so easy is it bud? Yes, I'm sure they can decide. Thanks again!
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@Jason R said
"You STILL, I see avoid my main point I explained; which is how the factors described (regardless of my interpretation) could just be chance?"
Any result would have been equally unlikely, as I said in my first response above. We've established that your method isn't an instruction from the Book itself -- it's just something you pulled out of the air that was sort of inspired by a strained reading of "sheets" as "tarot cards" and by pulling a bunch of ideas randomly out of other parts of the Book and by making up a lot of stuff.
So what you've presented is that you found some arbitrary way of putting numbers together. It so happens that this particular arbitrary way of putting numbers together yields other numbers that Crowley found significant. What are the odds that this arbitrary way of putting numbers together would yield that result? Exactly the same as the odds that it would yield numbers that Crowley didn't find significant.
"AND once again, remind everyone, you STILL refuse (and cannot) give me even ONE comparable example of this so called contrived, arbitrary, imaginary "number game.""
And I continue to refuse, on the grounds that it's unnecessary for me to waste the time and energy in order to demonstrate a point that should be perfectly obvious from the above.
"Yes, I'm sure [readers] can decide."
They certainly can.
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@Los said
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@Jason R said
"You STILL, I see avoid my main point I explained; which is how the factors described (regardless of my interpretation) could just be chance?"Any result would have been equally unlikely, as I said in my first response above. We've established that your method isn't an instruction from the Book itself -- it's just something you pulled out of the air that was sort of inspired by a strained reading of "sheets" as "tarot cards" and by pulling a bunch of ideas randomly out of other parts of the Book and by making up a lot of stuff.
So what you've presented is that you found some arbitrary way of putting numbers together. It so happens that this particular arbitrary way of putting numbers together yields other numbers that Crowley found significant. What are the odds that this arbitrary way of putting numbers together would yield that result? Exactly the same as the odds that it would yield numbers that Crowley didn't find significant.
"AND once again, remind everyone, you STILL refuse (and cannot) give me even ONE comparable example of this so called contrived, arbitrary, imaginary "number game.""
And I continue to refuse, on the grounds that it's unnecessary for me to waste the time and energy in order to demonstrate a point that should be perfectly obvious from the above.
"Yes, I'm sure [readers] can decide."
They certainly can."
LOL
Ok. SO according to your logic, its just as likely I could have arrived at the numbers 876, 456, 543. BUT, it JUST so happened of course, I guess I'm lucky and should go to Vegas, because I got 666, 418, & 111. COOL!
Same exact chance of ANY number from my "strained interpretation" but I got 666 etc. Oh yeah AND of course ALL the other things that are NOT numbers, but certainly consistent, like particular Tarot combinations at certain spots, oh and the OTHER Greek letters also by chance jumping on board. Jack pot!
Explain it oh so well. Nothing to see here folks, Los says I could have gotten any number just the same, so yeah. I know, it all makes sense, but he says its a stretch, so technically these numbers shouldn't be here.
Yeah anyway, of course I know you wont provide an example. I knew that from the beginning. You cant. Period, because its impossible for you to, and all you have is your "same chance as any other numbers" explanation, and hope people buy it. So your trying to say if we had few weird dice able to produce any number, you want people to believe I just rolled 666, 418, 111, 36, 25, 56, 5, 14, 23, (and many many more) on top of the coincidence of the Tarot being divided into micro / macro.
Reminder, if it were easy, and so easily manipulated or easy to find a pattern folks, trust me HE WOULD HAVE, and gloated about it. He can write long long posts, but cant provide one example of how his claim works. He cant because its BS. Period.
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@kasper81 said
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@Jason R said
""Do what thou wilt shall be the whole of the Law"Here is my proof in short.
My assertion is that it is well beyond chance, that by my following the riddles in Liber L, (and my ideas being reasonable) that I would discover particular Thelemic numbers arranged symbolically. I believe this is proof of an intelligence directing the events of man.
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93 Jason
I like your code. You could start writing an ebook, patent it, try and make some money out of it maybeThis is a good debate where we are asked to compare ourselves to our local catholic priests who refuse their altar-boys to dare to look into the tabernacle, nevertheless I say 93 to ye all and myself. It's a good exercise to wield such magick and then to sharpen thine Ruach (as AC said we should) and be happy to explain it all away for thyself too. This is cerebral flexibility: stretching our powers and expanding our horizons as we are instructed to do in Liber O
what if I said to you that the number 213 was about to become a significant part of your life from now on? Ye shall see this special mystic number on car licence plates, bank statements, at work, in books, bar codes, in magazines, everywhere?"
93 Kasper
Wow thank you! I admit I'm surprised you like it!
Listen, I do not deny the strength of suggestion, or that if a number becomes important that you wont see it everywhere. That happens ALL the time. So I agree with the fact we CAN fall into a trap of seeing or believing what we want. There's no doubt about that.
However just because that's possible, does NOT automatically mean EVERYTHING is a self delusion. The above number code is pretty simple, straight forward, and reasonable. It doesn't ask the student to go out on some wild limb to have it make sense. It makes perfect sense from the start and even MORE sense the more one looks into it.
Also, yes while its true the numbers in this code are important only because us occultists or others made them so, its STILL unlikely that ALL of these various significant numbers should miraculously align TOGETHER at the same time. An example would be something maybe like noticing ALL the license plates around you on the freeway all of a sudden being 666,418,111,36,25,6,50, etc etc lol. Crappy example but you get the idea. Its not just ONE number, its a whole CRAP load together out of one calculation, falling into a coherent symbolic whole. THAT is impossible in my book.
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What I present here is different from results of pure chance. Its different based on the fact the results are immediately significant, without layering meaning unto them. More than ONE significant and easily recognizeable result is found at the same time, and they all are positioned together in a relevant symbolic relationship that itself holds meaning.
Here's an example using only a small part of this solution, to demonstrate the significant symbolic relationships that occur at the same instant.
We find a Tablet that yeilds significant easily recognizeable numbers dividing this Tablet into five divisions, reflecting the Enochian. Lets take just the four quarters as an example:
**1. These four quarters easily reflect the Enochisn system of the four elemental Watchtowers.
- These quarters are seen usually (as in the Enochian system) as "Solar gates", solar quadrants, and this Tablets quadrants are composed of 36 squares each.
36 is the square of 6, and is also the number of squares in the planatery magic square of the Sun.
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This 36 squared "Solar gate", also happens to fittingly total to 666. 666 is of course a solar number, and is 6 on the grand scale. So far everything symbolically lines up, perfectly.
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The total of 666 in each of these four solar quadrants is arrived at by adding 6 horizontal lines that are 14 14 14 23 23 23 = 111. This means we arrive at the well known Thelemic number, 666, by the numerical expression of 6 × 111, yet another significant Thelemic idea. This formula reflects the words AUM HA, which of course are in Liber L.
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The repeated numbers that total 666 in each quadrant are 14 & 23. Both reduce to 5, and 14 + 23 = 37 "Mans Crown" as well as "Behold!".**
If we are to believe that this is "luck" or "chance" alone, just taking into account just a few of the results; we would have to believe the below variables aligned by chance at the same time:
**666 in four quadrants + 666 in 36 squares (36 is square of 6) + 6 × 111 reflecting AUM HA + 666 "foursquare" around a central cross of 418 + 14 & 23 = 37 "Behold!" **
The above is simply a few of the things that happen together, that have immediate Thelemic symbolic meaning. They all fit together, and each makes perfect sense in their relationship with the other. Another example is having 418 within the center cross, a number that represents the blending of the macrocosm and microcosm, a fitting number for a central cross that literally blends the macro / micro cards of the Tarot.
I have never heard, nor seen anywhere, (at least nothing that wasn't intentionally created to have such inherent harmony in symbols) that by chance has such consistent symbolic harmony. To anyone who believe this is simply "finding patterns in chaos", that it is simply blind chance, I challenge them to produce something comparable. So far, predictably, there's been no evidence this is even possible.
The fact is its impossible to do with such ease as this solution. Remember, there are only four steps.
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Attribute the Tarot "order" to the English Alphabet.
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Fold at Macro / Micro "right to left & top to bottom"
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Reduce.
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Add into a graph of 169 squares.
The above is HALF the equation, that yeilds half the sums of the above mentioned numbers and results.
If one reads Liber L with this Tablet in mind, as a "secret house", or "one palace", or "war" being VAR "war" (207 Resh + Zain), it all starts to make sense, and verses that seemed obscure start to yeild a deeper - richer meaning. -
Do what thou wilt shall be the whole of the Law
I thought I would go ahead and post more details of this Tablet; details of how it is used, for those who may be interested. These details of the system add to the whole things interconnected symbolism, seeing that it is a *self consistent system *that is in harmony with magickal philosophy and qabalistic thought. Realizing this very deep connectivity of symbolism, only strengthens in the claim for proof of something greater at work.
A red flag of a purely contrived or forced "system", would be elements at odds with workability, and symbolism inconsistent with regular technique. If one truly examines this Tablet, and the method of it, and then re-reads Liber L with it in mind, it becomes even more obvious it is valid.
ON ITS USE
It has always been my belief that the directions on how to use the Tablet, were built right into it. Once one discovers how to construct the tablet, the aspects of it, continue to point one in the right direction with obvious clues. There are basically three main aspects that provide most of the information we need, these are:
**1. The macro / micro combination of the Tarot.
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The two great Thelemic numbers pointing out five divisions reflecting the Enochian elemental arrangement.
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The first Tabulation's number arrangement within the squares themselves (13 - 37).**
THE TAROT COMBINATION
We can get the overall purpose right at the beginning with the blending of the Tarot - this being a symbol of the Great Work, and Rosy Cross. This is further pointed out in the Tablet, and confirmed by how the central cross totals to 418, a number of the Rosy Cross and the word of the Aeon* Abrahadabra.* This whole uniting of micro / macro, immediately suggests the work of the Adept and obtaining the Knowledge and Conversation of the Holy Guardian Angel. Also note how there are 169 squares composing the Tablet - which if taken as days, are just 11 days short of 6 months; the amount of time for the undertaking the Abramelin Operation.
THE ENOCHIAN DIVISIONS
The next huge clue on what this Tablet is doing is how these significant numbers divide up into 5 divisions, which strongly points to an Enochian style format. The Enochian Tablets were each divided up into roughly 5 parts - four elemental quadrants, and a central cross of Spirit. The fact we find 666 within four 36 squared quadrants, further supports this idea of "solar quadrants", and an elemental attribution to them. It is these numbers (666 & 418) that really justify these divisions, and so the Enochian - which in turn hands us the "sqaures" and "tablet" format. Like the Enochian scheme, we can turn each of these squares into a combination of forces: two Tarot cards, two elements, and a special set of numbers. This whole method gives individual meaning to all the squares, and to each of the quadrants.
THE NUMBERS
Within the very first, easy number arrangement; which is simply taking the numbers 0 - 12 "right to left", and 13 - 25 "from top to bottom", and adding them all together, we get a strange zigzagging pattern. Remember, we do not reduce, or reflect them, or anything at all complex. We simply *fold *the Tarot (applied to the English Alphabet) into macro & micro halves, into the layout of a graph. We reduce nothing, and the result is the numerical skeleton of the Tablet, a blue print for how the squares link together.
We notice, for example, that the very first square is on the left hand side (from the tablets perspective), is 13. The lowest number in the number arrangement is a number representing "one", or union. This 13th square also is a combination of the cards The Fool & Death, with Hebrew letters then of Aleph & Nun. Aleph and Nun total to 51 "Failure", which seems to confirm the clue of the "circle squared in its failure", this is the circle of ROTA being "squared" (divided/folded) where these two Hebrew letters (NA) that total to 51 the number for "failure" then unite at 13. Notice also how this square being 13 is ACHD* "unity"* as well as AHBH "love", it is found, if following the Pentagram Enochian arrangement for the Elements, in Water of Water - "I am divided for loves sake, for the chance of union."
The highest number is 37, and is found in the bottom right hand corner (from Tablets perspective), in the Earth of Earth quadrant. 37 is Mans Crown, and the number of the Yachidah. 37 reduced to 10, the number of Malkuth. The cards blended for this square are the base element of Earth (Pantacles) & The Hanged Man, Hebrew letters of Heh & Men (45). 45 is ADM "Man", as well as MH.
The central square is 25, and is in the heart of the central cross, which itself is composed of 25 squares. The Lover's & The Sun are combined here, the letters of Zain (sword), and Resh (wand), total* 207 AVR "light", or VAR "war".* These are both twins, as is the God Heru Ra Ha. The elemental mixture of this central square is Spirit of Spirit. The above three squares gives us a simple example of how we can look at each of these squares, the superficial process of understanding each of them. 25 is also the number of "the Beast".
THE NUMBER PATTERN
It seems to me, that the phrase in verse 3:73 is somewhat of a universal "key" to this Tablet, to be used to unlock many of its secrets. One of them is in how these squares function together. If you look at the numbers in Tabulation one, explained above, you see a zigzagging. This sequence of numbering seems to reflect the words "right to left, and top to bottom". 13 starts in the top right (to the observer) and flows down, top to bottom, ending with 37. If you then look at each quadrant, or what I call "gates", you will see the numbers unfold going either up or down, in a strange coiling. I say they coil, in that they wind down, then go back up, then down again until they reach a unity - each going from your bottom left to your top right. This whole zigzagging, again relates, I think, to the "line drawn" key, which when verbalized says *"left to right and either bottom to top, or top to bottom." *
This Tablet then, in short, describes a process of travelling into various regions created by the unique combination of the Tarot, and elements, in order to accomplish the Great Work. We may choose any of these squares, which when turned into truncated pyramids like we have in the Enochian system, look like* islands.* We may travel into any of these in any of these elemental quadrants, or "gates", or at "once", which means the squares in the "tablet of union", or central cross. However, we should do so in the order of the squares. This is what is meant by the line about the "dove" (which is descending, like the Holy Spirit), and the Serpent (Ascending, like the serpent upon the TOL). The sequence of these squares, either goes up (uniting) or down (dividing), choose "ye" well! Always, of course "unto me", as in the phrase of Nuit's "To Me! To Me!"
FINAL THOUGHTS
I believe the song or "love chant" given in the third chapter, the song that paraphrases the Stele of Revealing, serves as a "call", like we have in the Enochian. This opens up a "secret door", into any of these quadrants and squares to be travelled into and explored. This Tablet is the "secret house", or "one palace". This is the house that cannot be destroyed, and where we choose an island to lurk in and conquer. These are the "ordeals" of Nuit's knowledge, the curses to be endured, and not feared to be undergone, all within her "fold" (the dividing of the circle of ROTA into macro - micro). This could be, most likely, a system to be used by the Adept about to attempt K & C. It is not for those lower grades, and this is apparent simply based on how it reflects an Enochian style system, which itself wasn't allowed for the beginner. Could it be a new type of Abramelin operation? Maybe one enters and deals with each square in a period of 169 days, until at last they stand upon the "floor" of this palace, (25 squares reflecting the 25th path of Art), and sinks, which perhaps symbolises giving birth to their own Higher genius? Will he not sink? Ho! if thy warrior sink!
This is simply a quick overview of this Tablets use. It easily yeilds up information to whoever truly takes the time to study it, and has the knowledge to understand it. It is all there, and it explains itself, and so contains within itself its own inherent logic. This fact is what I point to, which only gets stronger the* deeper* one goes, for a proof of the powers of Aiwass, and the validity of Liber L itself. I believe the inherent logic of this Tablet is impossible to duplicate.
Love is the law, love under will.
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If anyone would like to try skrying a square, and wants to share here, or with me privately, please do or PM me.
I would also appreciate any help, or insight even if in private. I would keep this confidential. Any advice etc., one may have but do not want to post it, feel free to PM me. Help with some aspects I may be unclear on would be greatly appreciated!
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Whew ! Quite a bit to go through here.
Some intriguing patterns, amazing symmetry.
I might agree in saying this indicates an underlying intelligence guiding the hand,
You cross a line at some point when you get around to predictions of your coming.
(Circle & Square & Failure)The green you chose for that square is a little jarring.
I propose that you select a different color.
Something darker. -
@Uni_Verse said
"Whew ! Quite a bit to go through here.
Some intriguing patterns, amazing symmetry.
I might agree in saying this indicates an underlying intelligence guiding the hand,
You cross a line at some point when you get around to predictions of your coming.
(Circle & Square & Failure)The green you chose for that square is a little jarring.
I propose that you select a different color.
Something darker."Thank you Uni-Verse! Yes, I think you find even more symmetry, and beauty the more you look at it. There really is so much there, and its all right there after simply folding and adding. I even feel, honestly, that the line saying "divide, add, multiply, and understand" has relevence here. "Multiply" here is a neat use of word play, in that we "divide" up the Tarot, we add them, thus we "multiply" these products of their unions into multiple squares.
I'm glad you brought up this elephant in the room, the one about "your coming". First, I am NOT trying to "be" anything, I simply went where I was led. The graph drawn on the actual ms page was a huge clue to me that those "keys" were related to the graph I found. Now, I want to add that I do not think this verse, or solving this secret etc, says one is "chosen" per se, but that it WOULD be. Its a prediction, and the fact it did predict "someone" would solve it, gives credibility to the power of its author - evidence, I feel, it wasn't just AC. Anyway, I think it is simply pointing out, simply predicting someone in the future would "discover" it. Notice it does say "in these are mysteries no beast shall divine".
Either way, no matter what, I don't think simply stating what was found is crossing any "line", no matter how silly it may seem. We simply do not know what is meant. I think though, you mention something that sort of bothers many, keeping them from really saying much - which I totally understand. There is a plethora of egotistical claims etc., and so it provokes a somewhat knee-jerk reaction. All I can say is I assure anyone of my complete and absolute doubt of this type of "coming", and a objective and realistic, and humble position.
Anyway, I appreciate your comments! THANK YOU!!
p.s. I'm not a hundred percent sure what you mean about the color. I think your talking about the Earth quadrant in general being green. You know, your 100% right! I bounced back and forth from green to black, and to green again. I chose green because it seemed to balance out with the scheme of flashing colors more than white on black, which becomes confusing next to a black and white central cross. But, I think it can work. As I said, its still a work in progress really lol.