"Kill/Fill" - not "Kill Bill"
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@nigris said
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@Alrah said
"...If we want to stop the OTO from changing the Book of the Law"
the (c)OTO will not change The Book of the Law, it will at most change its published versions."By "published versions" you mean the new versions of The Book of the Law that will show the change, right?
Which means, they plan on changing (or "editing", depending on how PC you want to be), The Book of the Law.
Unless you just see The Book of the Law as the manuscript only, with Liber CCXX not being The Book of the Law.
@nigris said
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"we need to reach out to as many Thelemites in as many countries as we can"
you won't be able to predict where they are located. some of them may be part of the cults, but the bulk of Thelemites will never have heard of the Beast."This refers to "adoption", and I would have advised Crowley against ever doing it, with his list of Saints. But what do I know?
@nigris said
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"with one clear and central argument against the change. ..."
it's a top-down heirarchy (Old AEon). its incentives are only partly informed by A.'.A.'. standards (insofar as those who are affiliated to this initiatic club are actually connected to the Third Order). it isn't a democracy!! did you notice what happened when there were objections to 'reforms' made within the order previously?"Oh, do tell! What happened "when there were objections to 'reforms' made within the order [A:.A:.] previously", and what were those objections and reforms?
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So, just learned of the Kill/Fill schism (yes, been out of Thelemic news for a while now) and read through the discussions on it. Oddly though, I can't help but feel a little non-plussed about it. I get the idea of wanting to have it exactly right, but sometimes things are not that simple and so I'm riding on this Hegelian wave of synthetic thinking.
I can understand why Crowley might have had difficulties deciding which is the more appropriate.
The light is mine; its rays consume me.
To me it seems the filling is also a killing. Tried to fish for a quick gematria correlation, but didn't find one at first glance. Nevertheless, it seems there is scarcely a difference between the two or rather, that as long as there is a difference, a schism if you will (a wound if you dare), the filling/killing has not been completed.
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I don't mean to pick on you, but this is my point.
Your thoughts would be more valid if it were a Class B document.
However, it is a Class A document, and the issue is one of authority and nothing more.
Of course, a room full of scholars will tend to be biased toward the authority of the scholarly perspective. But it's a Class A document, and scholarly criticisms are irrelevant.
One either allows the Class A designation to be potentially more meaningful than one may rationally justify or not. That's the point of it, and any other more critical response kills that potential and places the power of the original text beneath, lower than, the power of the scholar and the rational mind.
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I can understand why someone who uses non-plussed to mean nonchalant would be a bit lackadaisical about word choice...
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So, you disagree about the "filling" also being a "killing"? That's the point after all, not an assumed mistake in my English or Liber AL being Class A.
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What if that's a question/concept that people shouldn't have to deal with the first time they pick up the Law?
What if...? There's a million of those that submission to the Adept's final Class A publication would silence. That's my point. That's the reason for the classification system...
The Law has to serve all three readings at once: first the Silver, then the Gold, then the Stones of Precious Water.
What if altering it jacks with that? What if the change emphasizes one reading more than the others, making it serve the others less?
What if? What if? What if?
Or just... leave it as received, and leave room for the mysteries of particularity that the Class A designation was designed to protect.
Well, my intelligence is exhausted on the subject.
Peace.
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LOL. Richard T. Cole emailed me this today...
http://i963.photobucket.com/albums/ae111/alrah/RTCStele_zpsffa6e6bc.jpg
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LOL An instant classic!
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@Bereshith said
"What if that's a question/concept that people shouldn't have to deal with the first time they pick up the Law?
What if...? There's a million of those that submission to the Adept's final Class A publication would silence. That's my point. That's the reason for the classification system...
The Law has to serve all three readings at once: first the Silver, then the Gold, then the Stones of Precious Water.
What if altering it jacks with that? What if the change emphasizes one reading more than the others, making it serve the others less?
What if? What if? What if?
Or just... leave it as received, and leave room for the mysteries of particularity that the Class A designation was designed to protect.
Well, my intelligence is exhausted on the subject.
Peace."
Ok, I see your point. For what it's worth, I do approach the change rather critically myself. I'm not entirely convinced it's necessary or correct. However, since the publication of it is outside of my control... I just found it interesting that mayhaps Crowley himself also had doubts (at least at some point) as to what the word should have been. Maybe he couldn't remember what was spoken through him and distrusted the transcription because with those two similar words there might have been a human error. Considering that in the context on some thematic level they seem nigh interchangeable as well seems to add to the confusion and thus I do find that an interesting possibility.
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93, This is just a quick update on the status of the petition against changing the Book of the Law.
As of this moment we have 192 signatories to the petition, and Bill Breeze, Frater Aion, Frater shiVa, and Lon Milo Duquette are all being notified as to the status of the petition as it grows in support. Thelemites from all over the world are signing the petition and sharing it on Facebook.
If you haven't already signed and shared... here's the link to the petition once again.
Thank you everyone!
93 93/93. -
I woke up the other day after dreaming about the word 'Vital' in verse in AL II, 15.
On the Temple, the value of the letters change. To each path the value of the sephiroth or palaces is added - and this allows for the decryption of the Zohar. It's a cool way of hiding text.
So I looked at the Temple values in respect of the VIT of VIT-AL:
V = 9
I = 211
T = 11
VIT = 231.On the Temple the path of Lamed also = 231.
Looking at the character count again in the light of the work John Griffith has done on Lashtal, I decided to exclude the verse numbers from chap.I but include the verse numbers from chap.II & III since that is the convention in the handwritten M.S.
All punctuation was removed, but the ampersands and the character for the circle squared was included to make a total count of 23,520 letters.
A separate count of the characters in the paraphrase of the Stele showed it to have 420 characters. Since the paraphrase isn't written in the MS I removed 420 from the character count as well.
23520 - 420 = 23100 characters.
231 / 100 = 231.
I am assuming this is a clue that the VITAL characters number 23100.
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@kasper81 said
"I like it"
Great!
Also:
If you remove the 154 verse numbers as words, and count the circle squared character as a word there are 5867 words in Liber AL. If we add the 13 words from the pencil notation (doesn't that begin with ink?) at III,37 "I am the Lord of Thebes from Vellum book Unity to fill me" = 5880 words.
23100 characters / 4 = 5880 words.
Curiously exact!
The subtraction of the 420 characters from the paraphrase in III,37 - is only significant by it's number (Resh 200 + 220 = 420) , otherwise we'd have to remove the rest of the poetry that is not written out in the Book. So why remove the 420? Does III, 37 symbolise the hiding of the Solar Woman? Her with the Scarlet hair?
If we calculate the number of Kaph as not only 20 but as 220, we suddenly see Kaph as not just half of Adm, but also the 200 as the solar feminine light of the Bride of the Absolute, who is described as being hidden for 2 thousand years and being 'the essence of light'. (Kaph originally had solar attributions - but these were not carried into the Golden Dawn attributions of the letters. You see her in the solar armour of the Charioteer in ATU VIII however, and in the red gold (hair) and purple of the grail however.)
If we look at the Temple attribution of Kaph as 220 instead of 20, then her path on the Temple = the value of AKD = 225,
Which is ADM (Adam or AMD = the Fool) 45 x 5 = 225.
Haha! Wonderful! I could never decrypt the Kaph path of the Temple in the Zohar... now I may finally be able to!
"951. When the countenance of the Female Head is
created, one curled lock of hair at the back of
Microprosopus hangeth over the head of the Woman.-
And all hairs red gold are produced in Her head; yet so that other colours are intermixed therewith.
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This is that which is written, Cant, vii. 5: “The hair of Thy head like ARGMN, Argaman, purple.”"
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Shame on me, I hadn't signed the petition yet. Done.
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"If you remove the 154 verse numbers as words, and count the circle squared character as a word there are 5867 words in Liber AL. If we add the 13 words from the pencil notation (doesn't that begin with ink?) at III,37 "I am the Lord of Thebes from Vellum book Unity to fill me" = 5880 words.
23100 characters / 4 = 5880 words.
Curiously exact!"
IDK seems like a pretty convoluted evolution, as they say.
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@Patrick Ossoski said
"Shame on me, I hadn't signed the petition yet. Done.
"Thanks Patrick!
Remember to share (if you will) on Facebook, as when even one person shares it makes a huge difference. You're a star!
Just adding the decryption of the Kaph path here now:
Note: the numbers are read across the chapters and Books.Kaph = 220.
Kaph + Aleph = 221.
Kaph + Daleth = 224.
Kaph + Aleph + Daleth = 225."220. The hairs which are classed in the sixth disposition ascend and come from beneath upwards unto the corner of the mouth, and cover the places of copious fragrance, even unto the upper corner of the mouth, and the hair descendeth at the corner of the opening, and across below the mouth. (Chap. 11 - Greater Holy Assembly).
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And this Wisdom embracing all things, when it goeth forth and shineth forth from the Most Holy Ancient One, shineth not save under the form of Male and Female. (chap. 8 - Lesser Holy Assembly).
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In the seventh disposition the hair terminateth, and there are seen two apples in the places of copious fragrance, beautiful and joyful in aspect, because the universe maintained. And this is that which is said, Prov. xvi. 16: “In the light of the king's countenance is life.” (Chap. 11 - Greater Holy Assembly).
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Therefore is this Wisdom extended, and it is found that it equally becometh Male and Female. (chap. 8 - Lesser Holy Assembly).
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In the tenth disposition the hairs descend beneath the beard, and cover the throat beneath the beard. (Chap. 11 - Greater Holy Assembly).
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This beginning is the Father of all things; the Father of all Fathers; and both are mutually bound together, and the one path shineth into the other - Chokmah, Wisdom, as the Father; Binah, Understanding, as the Mother. (chap. 8 - Lesser Holy Assembly).
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The eleventh disposition is, that no hairs are preeminent over other hairs, and they are restored into perfect proportion. (Chap. 11 - Greater Holy Assembly).
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It is written, Prov. ii. 3: “If thou callest Binah the Mother.” (chap. 8 - Lesser Holy Assembly)."
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@Jason R said
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"If you remove the 154 verse numbers as words, and count the circle squared character as a word there are 5867 words in Liber AL. If we add the 13 words from the pencil notation (doesn't that begin with ink?) at III,37 "I am the Lord of Thebes from Vellum book Unity to fill me" = 5880 words.23100 characters / 4 = 5880 words.
Curiously exact!"
IDK seems like a pretty convoluted evolution, as they say."
And wold you like to give me your considered opinion about the work of the men on Lashtal? Is that convoluted in your opinion?
{@ other readers... I'm used to being granted less respect for my work because I'm a woman. People find it easier to criticize the work of women whereas they hesitate when it's a man. This is just a fact of life, but I get rather sick of it, as you might imagine...]
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@Alrah said
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@Jason R said
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"If you remove the 154 verse numbers as words, and count the circle squared character as a word there are 5867 words in Liber AL. If we add the 13 words from the pencil notation (doesn't that begin with ink?) at III,37 "I am the Lord of Thebes from Vellum book Unity to fill me" = 5880 words.23100 characters / 4 = 5880 words.
Curiously exact!"
IDK seems like a pretty convoluted evolution, as they say."
And wold you like to give me your considered opinion about the work of the men on Lashtal? Is that convoluted in your opinion?
{@ other readers... I'm used to being granted less respect for my work because I'm a woman. People find it easier to criticize the work of women whereas they hesitate when it's a man. This is just a fact of life, but I get rather sick of it, as you might imagine...]"
I never go on Lashtal, and I would say the same thing. I felt it was a bit of a stretch.
I was raised by my mother. I have NO bias against women. I cant FATHOM how you even came up with this idea based upon my comment. I was just giving you my honest opinion.
P.S. I can't remember any time that anyone on here has attacked you because you were a woman. I think THAT is a stretch too.
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@Jason R said
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@Alrah said
"
And wold you like to give me your considered opinion about the work of the men on Lashtal? Is that convoluted in your opinion?{@ other readers... I'm used to being granted less respect for my work because I'm a woman. People find it easier to criticize the work of women whereas they hesitate when it's a man. This is just a fact of life, but I get rather sick of it, as you might imagine...]"
I never go on Lashtal, and I would say the same thing. I felt it was a bit of a stretch.
I was raised by my mother. I have NO bias against women. I cant FATHOM how you even came up with this idea based upon my comment. I was just giving you my honest opinion.
P.S. I can't remember any time that anyone on here has attacked you because you were a woman. I think THAT is a stretch too."
Being raised by your mother does not mean you are not unconsciously biased by cultural conditioning. It is pervasive in society for men to accord women with less respect than they would do with other men. It's probably something to do with animal dominance behavior. I suggest that you read this article in Science Daily -
www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2006/07/060714174545.htm
The same happens in the occult community too, though your ego cannot accept it. And now -if you have nothing more to add than the fact that a section of my work seems convoluted to you (in comparison to what?) then perhaps we can get back to the thread.
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Notes about the number 231:
- The sum of the first 22 numbers, 0 to 21; the sum of the Key-Numbers of the Tarot cards.
231 - the mystic number of Jupiter (Kaph).
231 mystical Gates of the Sefer Yetzirah.
[Added]
And I love this new finding...
As you may know - the Lost Word BaraHdd = 217. Also 31 (AL) x 7 = 217. Also the number of the Inner Temple = 217.21700 / 231 = 93.939393939393939393 - into infinity!
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"Being raised by your mother does not mean you are not unconsciously biased by cultural conditioning. It is pervasive in society for men to accord women with less respect than they would do with other men. It's probably something to do with animal dominance behavior. I suggest that you read this article in Science Daily -
www.sciencedaily.com/releases/20 ... 174545.htm
The same happens in the occult community too, though your ego cannot accept it. And now -if you have nothing more to add than the fact that a section of my work seems convoluted to you (in comparison to what?) then perhaps we can get back to the thread."
I'm not going to just sit here an allow you to call me sexist simply because I disagreed with you. What real reason do you have to make such a suggestion??
This is unbelievable.
My reasons were simple for suggesting your ideas were a stretch, NONE of which had anything to do with your gender. Your projecting here, and obviously have issues.