Results may vary...
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Thanks for the very interesting account of your experiences!
Fascinating read.
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Yes, I've heard of HGA's manifesting in a people's lives in several different forms: alien, angel, Arab, old white guy, and now Lwa.
What an interesting phenomena it is...
Thanks for sharing your story.
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"Yes, I've heard of HGA's manifesting in a people's lives in several different forms: alien, angel, Arab, old white guy, and now Lwa."
That was a point I was attempting to make in my post: No two experiences are alike. One person cannot dictate the relationship between a person and their "HGA" or Holy Guardian Lwa.
The role of the Houngan is to help people identify their spirits and mediate in the relationship, if the client is having a particularly difficult time.
I'm not sure if Jim might chime in, but I believe that any of the Ordeals that I was facing were equivalent to that of the Dominus Liminis. The idea of Crowley getting tossed off the ravine only to be uninjured.
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@HounganRocky said
"I'm not sure if Jim might chime in, but I believe that any of the Ordeals that I was facing were equivalent to that of the Dominus Liminis. The idea of Crowley getting tossed off the ravine only to be uninjured."
Since you asked...
They certainly resemble the level of the Portal in the old G.D. sense (or, rather, in the sense of the modern successors to the old G.D.), which is roughly equivalent to the Path of Tav and the deeper opening of Yetzirah.
Whether they are characteristic of the ordeals of Dom. Lim. is harder to say, because they are so highly individual. In one sense, that's not as much the point of Dom. Lim. (at least, not for everybody) as it is in earlier stages. You were note doing the work of a Dom. Lim. per se, but that doesn't necessarily mean the same thing.
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Thank you Jim for the clarification.
It's true I was not doing the work of the DL at that particular junction, but I was curious because I had friend in the AA that went through many Ordeal before becoming 5=6. We fell out of correspondence around the time in my life being described for various reasons. I am certainly not claiming any grade whatsoever. The methods of the AA are somewhat contradictory to the tradition I follow, but the system does provide an excellent map.
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@Legis said
"... I've heard of HGA's manifesting in a people's lives in several different forms: alien, angel, Arab, old white guy, and now Lwa."
Probably the same phenomenon in differing masks.
Different internal symbolic representation, according to personal frame of reference; and different external representation, according to cultural frame of reference.
For the Yoruba culture, most of the Orishas have the same qualities as "Angels" would have had to western medieval scholars.
In my opinion, if the "Loa version" is comparable to the "HGA version" could only be decided upon a deeper analysis of the phenomena experienced and their (empirically observable) consequences, and not via correspondence tables or sequences of training which can and will differ between different traditions. That would be confusing the map with the territory, imo.
Cheers.
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"Possession shall be nine-tenths of the Loa."
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@Jim Eshelman said
""Possession shall be nine-tenths of the Loa.""
Well ... you can easily interpret the HGA experience as a possession, and it might first be experienced as such, no? The own deep self so alien to the cultural mask one has identified with that the "true" self appears as an alien entity at first ...
Self-possession, sure, but possession still. Possession of the personal and prespersonal selves by the transpersonal self.
Am I overlooking something? The Yoruba high priest of Shango, for example, is the Orisha Shango, by his own experience. And the process how he got there sounds a lot like the HGA experience and subsequent realisation to me.
This is how I arrived at the above conclusion, as far as the Orishas as potential HGAs are concerned.
Edit: Just noticed that this is a version of a proverb I wasn't aware of existed, english isn't my mother tongue. Doesn't change my point, though.
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@Jim Eshelman said
""Possession shall be nine-tenths of the Loa.""
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@Simon Iff said
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@Legis said
"... I've heard of HGA's manifesting in a people's lives in several different forms: alien, angel, Arab, old white guy, and now Lwa."Different internal symbolic representation, according to personal frame of reference; and different external representation, according to cultural frame of reference."
While I find validity in this statement, to be perfectly clear: I had no prior exposure to the Haitian or Yoruba culture. If anything the Yoruba culture is more present in very subtle ways where I live, but the Haitian culture is very subverted and secretive.
"Am I overlooking something? The Yoruba high priest of Shango, for example, is the Orisha Shango, by his own experience. And the process how he got there sounds a lot like the HGA experience and subsequent realisation to me."
This is the understanding that I have concluded through personal experience with friends that are Yoruba Priests and Priestesses. A good friend of mine, who is a priestess of Oshun said that when she dies she will become a "camino" or "path" of Oshun. I concluded that the purified Ruach of the deceased priest or priestess becomes part of the Yetziratic "trappings" of the Briatic beings.
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Give the man a cigar. (A good cigar.)
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@Jim Eshelman said
"Give the man a cigar. (A good cigar.)"
That's funny you should say that. I was doing a house cleansing for a friend of the Lucumi faith today, and I had lit a cheap cigar (it was sort of on the fly and none of the stores had any decent cigars). When the spirit suddenly possessed my friend he immediately complained about the quality of the tobacco.
I guess it's off to the liquor and tobacco store!
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Very nice to read, thanks for sharing.
@HounganRocky said
" Every morning and evening was marked by vibrations of barbarous names and intonations of the Gods. I began to have dreams of the various paths of the Tree, marking connections between Tipereth and it's surrounding Sephiroth. I persisted and persisted, being pushed with a greater intensity each day."
That rocks man !
Looking forward to read some introduction to voodoo if you will. Cheers.
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"Looking forward to read some introduction to voodoo if you will. Cheers."
Here is your introduction to Voodoo:
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@HounganRocky said
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"Looking forward to read some introduction to voodoo if you will. Cheers."Here is your introduction to Voodoo:
www.heruraha.net/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=13119"
Thanks !
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@HounganRocky said
"I concluded that the purified Ruach of the deceased priest or priestess becomes part of the Yetziratic "trappings" of the Briatic beings."
I've never heard of anything like that before.
But I find that it fits as a puzzle-piece connecting about 6 seemingly separate things I've been pondering for a good while.
If you were close, I'd buy you that cigar myself.
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@HounganRocky said
"A good friend of mine, who is a priestess of Oshun said that when she dies she will become a "camino" or "path" of Oshun. I concluded that the purified Ruach of the deceased priest or priestess becomes part of the Yetziratic "trappings" of the Briatic beings."
As someone who works a lot with this, is it your impression that the Orishas might be a sort of hive minds? I am curious about that.
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@Simon Iff said
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@HounganRocky said
"A good friend of mine, who is a priestess of Oshun said that when she dies she will become a "camino" or "path" of Oshun. I concluded that the purified Ruach of the deceased priest or priestess becomes part of the Yetziratic "trappings" of the Briatic beings."As someone who works a lot with this, is it your impression that the Orishas might be a sort of hive minds? I am curious about that."
Hmm, I don't think the term "hive mind" is what I'd use, but to some extent it seems to fit and isn't that the case with all (most) divinities (and what happens with the Orishas here happens with all of them)?
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@Simon Iff said
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@HounganRocky said
"A good friend of mine, who is a priestess of Oshun said that when she dies she will become a "camino" or "path" of Oshun. I concluded that the purified Ruach of the deceased priest or priestess becomes part of the Yetziratic "trappings" of the Briatic beings."As someone who works a lot with this, is it your impression that the Orishas might be a sort of hive minds? I am curious about that."
"Hive minds" is far from the truth. The Orishas themselves are Briatic Beings. The Caminos of the Orishas are in fact Yetizratic beings that build the link between the initiate and the Orisha. Generally, the Yetziratic Camino helps the initiate by pointing out potential problems along the way. When the Orishas possess properly, they are in fact Briatic and keep Yetziratic entities away.