Is there a Jones lineage?
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Of course there is a Jones lineage. It runs through his first inferior in the Order, Aleister Crowley
Remember, today's sort of fragmentation of the Order was not intended or desired by its founders. Some have argued (understandably) that the whole idea of lineages is a distortion of the system. Unfortunately, it's the de facto situation and Tyner only real alternative is to descend into politics and power plays, so Soror Meral and I decided to stand for, "Let people do whatever they want about this as long as they leave us alone," and, "Students get the teacher they deserve. Discrimination is the first test."
That is: By their fruits (and nuts!) ye shall know them.
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Ah, of course-I hadn't thought about it in that way, that all Crowley lineages would include Jones. I find it interesting that, at least it my own superficial research, not much Jones material seems to be available.
As to your general rule concerning commenting on other lineages, it's one that I agree with and applaud. I will admit that sometimes I wished that it wasn't the case, but I think the pros outweigh the (perceived) cons.
Thanks again,
Thom -
An unpublished (but, I think, not ultimately secret) detail of admitting Probationers is that the entire lineage is documented on the Probationer Task (the back of the oath). When Crowley admitted Jane Wolfe, under D.D.S. (Cecil Jones) he wrote "To Mega Therion." When Jane admitted Phyllis, she wrote Crowley's motto and then her own. My Probationer certificate has, in that place, "D.D.S., To Mega Therion, Estai, Meral." Etc.
You can see where he stands in the lineage
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@Jim Eshelman said
"That is: By their fruits (and nuts!) ye shall know them."
93,
That is a beautiful line.
93 93/93
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@Jim Eshelman said
"That is: By their fruits (and nuts!) ye shall know them."
I wouldn't be too judgemental about the nuts. Even Crowley had a few of those.
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The two lines are mercurian teacher gets mercurian student right? And discrimination makes to discover ones nature in magick way
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@Vadox said
"The two lines are mercurian teacher gets mercurian student right? And discrimination makes to discover ones nature in magick way"
Not necessarily. As a Gemini-dominant the Powers that be have often placed me under teachers or authority figures that require patient, ordered activity over long periods of time--quite contrary to the restless Geminian activity and mad flashes of constructive (or destructive) activity. I would say the student gets what they deserve. For instance my current Virgo girlfriend has taught me much about discretion in material matters, moderation, habitual constructive activity on the mundane level, etc. My Aries/Cancer mother taught me about the variety of mood swings to which a female member of our species is capable, and my ill-dignified Taurus/Cancer father instilled in me at the same time an iron discipline and a genuine hatred for arbitrary (but not necessary) authority: i.e. I have had run-ins with the police but never college professors or colleagues, etc.
I apologize if that was a rather long winded answer to a not very clear question. I guess the gist is that due to one's accrued balance of energy, operating under karma or universal law, one gets the teacher they deserve and this teacher may not necessarily be agreeable to the student, but is perhaps quite necessary for the student's development.
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@gmugmble said
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@Jim Eshelman said
"That is: By their fruits (and nuts!) ye shall know them."I wouldn't be too judgemental about the nuts. Even Crowley had a few of those."
Yes I wouldn't be overly judgmental either, for Crowley was able to crack these nuts with his bald prophet skull while sniffing coke and playing astral chess in sync with the doinking of one of his many mistresses while dictating one of his works to some poor abused secretary like Regardie.
And what a method of teaching! "Hey, Regardie, I see you're a virgin. What do you say we pound some wine and hit the brothel; I'll introduce you to Fifi. Say, got any money?"
If men are known by their fruits, then Crowley was a panoramic galactic mango shrub with electric tendrils which spouts eels and cosmic wafers of utter delight before which Willy Wonka would be ashamed.
Sorry, little off topic but I was feelin' it.
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@kasper81 said
"In the Eye in the Triangle, Regardie said this was bad advice"
Oh, Regardie turned out just fine. Unlike that poor fellow Neuburg. (sp?)
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@Jim Eshelman said
"Of course there is a Jones lineage. It runs through his first inferior in the Order, Aleister Crowley
"This is very interesting! I never knew this. Any more to share or any where I can look to find out more? How was Jones Crowley's superior in the order?
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@Mephis said
"Crowley was able to crack these nuts with his bald prophet skull while sniffing coke and playing astral chess"
Behold ! There are three grades in chess !
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@ldfriend56 said
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@Jim Eshelman said
"Of course there is a Jones lineage. It runs through his first inferior in the Order, Aleister Crowley"This is very interesting! I never knew this. Any more to share or any where I can look to find out more? How was Jones Crowley's superior in the order?"
I'm not quite sure what the question is. Cecil Jones was Crowley's superior in the Order. It was through him that AC first gained access to the Golden Dawn. The two of them left the GD together after the 1900 schism to join the A et O. When Crowley returned to England in 1906 in the middle of his Abramelin working, he reported to and consulted with Jones, which led to the mutual 5=6 reobligation for Day C. From those results, they decided to create A.'.A.'., and started working on it aggressively through the fall, leading to critical December results and decisions. As they formalized it, Jones assumed the 7=4 office of Praemonstrator and AC the 6=5 office of Imperator. Jones' name always comes above AC's name in the handwritten lineage lists on Probationer certificates.
This basic info is all over the place, e.g., Crowley's Confessions and other writings. Much of it is in my book on A.'.'A.'..