Crowley's incarnations
-
@Malaclypse said
"If he was a prophet in the same sense as Buddha he should be able to see every lifetime he'd lived and would live, right?"
Assuming lots of things, including the reality of reincarnation and that Buddha really did remember all of his incarnations.
-
@Draco Magnus said
"Well, he also claimed to be the priest Ankh-af-na-khonsu from Egypt."
Ah, thanks!
@sasha said
"Assuming lots of things, including the reality of reincarnation and that Buddha really did remember all of his incarnations."
I have a theory on how reincarnation works. To me, right now, it seems as reasonable as assuming the sun will rise tomorrow. Life is a pattern of regeneration into arbitrarily the same form again and again. The universe is nothing but a constant fluctuation between yin/yang on every level, so also with life. The universe is activity and is therefore Life. To live in the incarnated state is to go into an individual orbit. The entire individual orbit fluctuates between inert and active states from lifetime to lifetime, so when inactive in itself it is active in the universe state, one with everything, absolute objectivity etc. Nothing in the universe stops and it's completely illogical to assume the pattern of regeneration would disrupt itself there, since it physically still has the momentum from the lifetime it has just lived, so it swings again on the pendulum, continuing until life becomes so obsolete by having seen it enough, become used to it and perfected by it it's useless and the fluctuation stops and the individual goes to Nirvana and becomes God/the universe.
-
Somewhere on my computer I have his recor from his 9=2 working where he tracked back multiple lives for several centuries. I couldn't find it when I searched just now, might come across it.
Of the recognizable ones, you left our Cagliastro and the author of The Classic of Purity. There were quite a few nonfamous ones also.
Ah, I found this footnote in Chapter 10 (6=5 chapter) of The Mystical & Magical System of the A.'.A.'. - Having written, "Crowley’s own 6=5 process is virtually undocumented," I added the footnote:
"We do, however, have information from Crowley’s diaries about his recollections of the half dozen or so prior incarnations during which he struggled with the Adeptus Major Grade. The record develops some interesting points. These can be summarized here only in the briefest way....
By the early 16th century, the being who later would incarnate as Aleister Crowley had attained to the 5=6 Grade of Adeptus Minor. The record then documents an incarnation as Edward Kelley (1555-1595), John Dee’s psychic assistant in bringing forth the Enochian system of magick. Kelley was strongly drawn to magick powers, and so sought to push ahead (prematurely) to 6=5. Furthermore, Kelley apparently did not embrace the new teachings the Enochian angels had conveyed to him, which were, in part, an early disclosure of the Law of Thelema. As a result of this, he stepped back a grade in his next incarnation where, as a frail and malformed young man (subjected to ill health and abuse), he nonetheless lived a profoundly mystical life, obtaining a very high and pure mystical attainment by age 22. There then followed two incarnations of failing in his attempt to assimilate the Geburah level of attainment. First, he was a Russian called Father Ivan, profoundly steeped in magick, but laden with extreme vices, abusive of his magick powers, subject to rages, and author of horrible cruelties – all being extreme imbalances of the Gebu-ran energies. Following this, he was a Heinrick van Dorn, an incarnation only partially remembered for reasons reportedly involving "some serious magical error connected with the grade of Adeptus Major," an abuse of black magical forces "in an entirely futile way. It is a tale of grimoires and vain evil rites, of pacts at which Satan was mocked, and crimes unworthy even of witches," Crowley wrote. He hanged himself at about age 27. Following this suicide, he "passed through a dreadfully dark purgation," also described as "a profound horror and gloom." Upon completing this cleansing, he was born as Cagliostro (1748-1795). His karma having been equilibrated by his purgatory, Cagliostro reached a "very full" attainment of the 6=5 Grade. His blind spot in that incarnation, in his celebration of his mighty attainment, appears to have been a failure to see that something entirely Other lay beyond the Second Order – "not knowing or caring about the Abyss above me." After Cagliostro, he incarnated as Eliphas Levi (1810-1875) who comfortably reattained the Adeptus Major Grade (summarizing his knowledge in The Dogma & Ritual of High Magic), then attaining the 7=4 Grade of Exempt Adept before his death."
-
That was great info, thanks Jim!
I read in an article somewhere (I believe the magazine was called Sub Rosa) that Timothy Leary was a continuation of his pattern. I.e. not a reincarnation (Leary was born 1920 iirc), but according to the article he made a ritual in the same spot Crowley had received the 30 aethyrs. They both started a religion, both used psychedelics in their work and both were rich kids who adopted the more bohemian life style. All according to the article.
My own theory of his present reincarnation if he has one would be Richard Bandler.
Any better guesses from ye wise men and women? -
Aleister Crowley was the most recent incarnation of the Solar Logos. As such, my understanding and perception is that his Yechidah is the center of our physical (and metaphysical) Sun - the heart of our solar system - and will continue to be until the expiration of the Aeon and his replacement by the successor founding Magus.
Of course, that's not the sort of thing anyone can prove, so take it with a grain of salt.
-
Really? I am having a tough time considering that Crowley attained the same as Jesus. Perhaps it is the gaging reaction I have to much of Crowley's writings, or perhaps it is lack of exposure to the earlier life of Jesus, and ergo his faults. Also, the whole heroine problem, his sexest behavior..and the way he crossed over....? Humm maybe two grains of salt. I would have guessed Case over Crowley anyday. But what do I know? Not too much really.
-
Thanks once more Jim!
TripleFlower: A few things I've heard about Jesus is that he could have a really bad temper, but that's about the only thing I know. He used to drink wine too. But I think the fact that the prophets had vices could be part of the plan, to show the entire humanity that they're only human and that anyone can attain to their level. But then again, I almost certainly don't know a lot.
-
@TripleFlower said
"I am having a tough time considering that Crowley attained the same as Jesus."
THere is, as you may know, serious question of whether Jesus actually existed. You do know (don't you?) that there are no historical accounts of him written during his actual (alleged) lifetime except that of Josephus, which is known to have been later doctored and falsified.
Personally, I think there was a historic figure of that name around whom the Middle Eastern mystery school myths coalesced... but the historic record is pretty thin.
"Also, the whole heroine problem"
You know (don't you?) that this was a prescribed medicine.
"his sexest behavior"
Society has come a long way. By today's standards, Crowley was an abominable sexist. But, in his time, he was a "bleeding edge" feminist. I repeat: The world has really progressed in this regard in the intervening decades.
"and the way he crossed over"
I wonder which apocryphal story you have in mind. He had a rather peaceful, serene death.
"I would have guessed Case over Crowley anyday."
Case, at best, never got past the 7=4 grade.
And you may not know the stories about Case's personality traits. His sainthood was in his continuing struggling against his personality's negative manifestations, not in his having mastered them.
-
@Malaclypse said
"A few things I've heard about Jesus is that he could have a really bad temper, but that's about the only thing I know. He used to drink wine too. But I think the fact that the prophets had vices could be part of the plan, to show the entire humanity that they're only human and that anyone can attain to their level."
Of Christ, Case, and Crowley, AC is the only one not noted for a pretty ugly bad temper.
But I think your last point is the most important. One of the things I have always most admired about Crowley is that, in the fashion of Blavatsky, he manifest a personality that would discourage the masses from emulating him. It's not about emulation of another - instead, it's about walking the same road, but (increasingly) as oneself.
-
@Jim Eshelman said
"
"his sexest behavior"Society has come a long way. By today's standards, Crowley was an abominable sexist. But, in his time, he was a "bleeding edge" feminist. I repeat: The world has really progressed in this regard in the intervening decades."
Regardless, Crowley strikes me as more complicated than this. He very often said nasty things about women as a whole, but he seems to have, at least on many occassions, attacked not anything innate in women, but the constructions of femininity at the time he lived, constructions that greatly hindered women, as well as men. Of course, he did also seem to treat some women pretty horribly, dominating them and even using them. But I wonder, does this distinguish him from how he treated the men in his life? Perhaps it does, I just don't know.
-
My own take on AC:
As far as his mundane biography goes, Crowley is either known from the books about him (none, that I know of, by anyone very deep into a mystical or magical path, except for Regardie), or from his own <i>Confessions</i>, which is a book colored by the attitudes of his time, and of course written <i>for</i> people colored by those same attitudes.
He was also forever dealing with the repressions, and reactions to them, that a Victorian English childhood gave him. The Confessions especially reflects a life formed during Britain's greatest imperial expansion, and the immense struggle of so many people to shake off the tight-laced corsets of conformity and false propriety. Exasperation with self ("Why can't I just be me?") is a theme frequently expressed by writers who were raised in that world, and AC seems no exception, even if he found ways to resolve, or at least address, many of the issues he faced.
The Holy Books and the best mystical instructions, on the other hand, stand wholly outside of that cultural and personal conditioning. Biographers like John Symonds or Colin Wilson either ignore them or dismiss them as incomprehensible ramblings - which, to such writers, they are. But before we can form any idea of who or what he was, or what he embodied, we have to take all that side of him into account.
I found that once my own attention shifted away from individual acts of meanness or blindness to the sheer focus he brought to bear on the highest of goals, the whole business of the mean, bad Beast began to seem far less relevant: to me, to him, or to his life work.
Edward
-
@TripleFlower said
"Really? I am having a tough time considering that Crowley attained the same as Jesus."
I have a tough time considering that a great many people have not surpassed the evolutionary growth of Jesus. Dude lived two thousand years ago; humanity's evolution alone probably brings a great many people relatively near to his level.
-
93 All,
Don't forget the tag-team incarnations (with Fr. L. T.) listed in the magickal record of The Paris Working.
93 93/93,
Fr. Z. T.
-
"His stainhood was in his continuing struggling against his personality's negative manifestations, not in his having mastered them."
His "stainhood" is pretty interesting. Makes sense, though. Actually, very accurate. Reminds me of gematria.
In L.V.X.,
chrys333 -
@Chris Hanlon said
""His stainhood was in his continuing struggling against his personality's negative manifestations, not in his having mastered them."
His "stainhood" is pretty interesting. Makes sense, though. Actually, very accurate. Reminds me of gematria.
In L.V.X.,
chrys333"ROFLMAO - I've fixed it now.
-
@Edward Mason said
"...As far as his mundane biography goes, Crowley is either known from the books about him (none, that I know of, by anyone very deep into a mystical or magical path, except for Regardie)..."
What about [www.amazon.com/gp/product/1561841706/qid=1152590886/sr=1-1/ref=sr_1_1/002-7806164-3301666?s=books&v=glance&n=283155:3srbpb7j]](http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/1561841706/qid=1152590886/sr=1-1/ref=sr_1_1/002-7806164-3301666?s=books&v=glance&n=283155:3srbpb7j) by Dr. Richard Kaczynski
-
"I have a tough time considering that a great many people have not surpassed the evolutionary growth of Jesus. Dude lived two thousand years ago; humanity's evolution alone probably brings a great many people relatively near to his level"
Yeah, but Zeph, from an evolutionary stand point, that isn't much time at all.
Jim,
I hear what you are saying concerning the faults I pointed out of Crowleys. I didn't know that the heroine addiction was prescription, but I am not suprised as bayer once marketed heroine as "super asprin" in an OTC formula. However, I feel that AC should have known what was best for him, and not trusted the bad medicine. In other words, prescription does not equal excuse. Of course, this addiction could have occured before he attained? I don't know. I don't know my Thelemic history to be honest.
I understand what you said concering his sexest behavior and will take it into consideration from now on. Also, concerning his death, I thought he died alone in a small upstairs flat.
-
Let's again revisit that Great People have Great Faults, everything 'bout them is Great. We can look at the man, we can look to the personality, we can judge by our limited exterior perspective. We may even deem these exterior things as detrimental, while perhaps, since they exist, they are necessary to the Will in a particular manifestation.
Then again most humans have complexes even the highly advanced ones.
-
@TripleFlower said
"I didn't know that the heroine addiction was prescription, but I am not suprised as bayer once marketed heroine as "super asprin" in an OTC formula. However, I feel that AC should have known what was best for him, and not trusted the bad medicine. In other words, prescription does not equal excuse. Of course, this addiction could have occured before he attained? I don't know. I don't know my Thelemic history to be honest."
Heroine was a standard treatment for asthma. It had been prescribed from the time he was a young man, as a more or less daily treatment expected to be a lifetime maintenance medicine.
"Also, concerning his death, I thought he died alone in a small upstairs flat.
"Well, not alone. But yes, it was in a nice little well-maintained apartment. Is there something disparaging about that?
-
"Ganesha is the first sound, OM, in which all hymns were born. When Shakti (Energy) and Shiva (Matter) meet, both Sound (Ganesha) and Light (Skanda) were born. He represents the perfect equilibrium between force and kindness and between power and beauty. He also symbolizes the discriminative capacities which provide the ability to perceive distinctions between truth and illusion, the real and the unreal."
Doesn't this sound like Jesus, Mary? Or Osiris and Isis?
Shakti is like Nuit, and Shiva like Geb.
Also, Tiphareth is the center (Sun/Son) of the Tree of Life, connects the Supernals from the rest of the sephorith. Saturn is the son of the Sun, and Malkuth is the last (or first) path of the Tree of Life.There is no worship in Thelema, right? Just self development to unveil the divinity within?
Thanks,
chrys333
