Scientology
-
Scientlogy has been big news lately with the BBC documentary and such. We all know there was a connection between Hubbard and the OTO/Parsons. Some have said that Scientology is just Thelema but with modern language and other terms used, ie Thetan? instead of HGA, etc. My question is: Do you (anyone) consider Scientology as thelema with a different vocabulary, or a corruption of Thelema, or maybe no connection at all?
-
David, 93,
A personal view, based on many moons of observation of the Church of $:
Scientology inverts the primary notion of Thelema, the K&C of the HGA. That is, it insists on its members maintaining a distinct identity rather than recognizing that the personal self is subordinate to or identical with Superconsciousness. It is, functionally, a paranoid construct deriving in large measure from Thelema as Parsons and others described it to Hubbard, though with inputs from other spiritual philosophies and some schools of psychology or psychologically based groups. Hubbard's own innate paranoia - remember, this is the guy whose warship attacked a floating log after which he announced he had sunk a Japanese submarine - did the rest.
I know Gareth Knight has never repented of his involvement in, and use of, Scientology for clearing blocks in his Qabalistic students, and I think the methodology of Dianetics for such things is certainly practical. The initial experiences of Dianetic processing are found to be releasing in anyone I've spoken with. But the Hubbardian universe is ultimately one where the different units of consciousness (thetans) remain distinct, acknowledging each other but never dropping the dualistic perspective.
Ultimately IMHO, the whole system is based on the Power Ray, and lacks balance. It preaches freedom but, to sustain its organization (and cashflow) subverts it at every point.
However, that doesn't mean you couldn't use Scientological or Dianetic techniques for limited aims. They derive a lot of their theoretical base from Hermetic and Thelemic ideas, and some of these in turn could usefully be fed back into a Thelemic worldview.
93 93/93,
Edward
-
@DavidH said
"Some have said that Scientology is just Thelema"
There seems no doubt that Hubbard was strongly influenced by Crowley writings, and especially by his then-unpublished commentaries on Liber L. (he had access to them in ms. form and used to read them to his son in the crib). However, Scientology not only isn't "just Thelema," it bears almost no relationship to Thelema.
"but with modern language and other terms used, ie Thetan? instead of HGA, etc."
"Thetan" isn't HGA. Think, instead, the non-material (non-MEST: Matter Energy Space Time) aspect of yourself, the incarnating spirit.
"My question is: Do you (anyone) consider Scientology as thelema with a different vocabulary, or a corruption of Thelema, or maybe no connection at all?"
See above. Influenced by Crowley writings, some of which are specifically about Thelema and some of which aren't - also heavily influenced by other stuff with a heavy emphasis on Hinduism. Yes, there are a lot of places where older concepts have been given new names (a way of taking control of the vocabulary and being able to control it for the sake of more exacting communication) - but, then, we've done that, too.
-
@Edward Mason said
"I know Gareth Knight has never repented of his involvement in, and use of, Scientology for clearing blocks in his Qabalistic students, and I think the methodology of Dianetics for such things is certainly practical."
Edward, was he involved in Scientology per se? I know that Fortune's F.I.L. specificaly embraced Dianetics, and Basil was trained in this and still embraces it. I hadn't previously seen anything to suggest that Scientology had been part of his involvement.
-
There's a couple big manuals online for free by "The Pilot" called "Self-Clearing" and something else... I checked it out for a while and concluded there were some useful techniques in it for sure that had nothing to do with brainwashing or anything unpleasant. Just weird stuff like looking at the corners of the room to wake up and focus which, surprisingly, actually work.
-
JAE, 93,
"Edward, was he involved in Scientology per se? I know that Fortune's F.I.L. specificaly embraced Dianetics, and Basil was trained in this and still embraces it. I hadn't previously seen anything to suggest that Scientology had been part of his involvement."
I had some contact with people on the very fringe of his circle in the late 1960s, and from them I formed the impression there was an interest in Scientology among English occultists generally. At this time, there were many 'field auditors' who were not under the direct control of the Church itself. That changed in the 1970s, I believe, but until then, a lot of people being processed were not directly affiliated with the Church of Scientology except peripherally.
In his <i>Practical Guide to Qabalistic Symbolism</i> (Weiser Books, 2001 paperback edition), he mentions in Book I, Ch. X, (on Chesed) para 5:
"Similarly in scientological (sic) processing where a pre-clear has a flash-back in memory to a time when he was a free Spirit without, or with only a very abstract form in interstellar space, he will often clothe the memory with the trappings of modern science fiction and 'remember' himself as in a space-ship and so on, simply because his mind cannot conceive the idea of being without form."
I assume that was a dig at Hubbar's tall stories! There are other references in Knight's index, but the pages indicated don't have the quotes on them, so someone screwed up. (Suppressives at work!)
Similarly, in his preface to the 1975 edition, included in this paperback, he says:
"Some have also taken me to task with regard to my fulsoe remarks about scientology (again lower case). It may be that they are made on insufficient evidence but I can only in all honesty recordthat my own personal experiences of this technique have been very helpful. It may be that I have been singularly fortunate."
93 93/93,
Edward
-
@Edward Mason said
"At this time, there were many 'field auditors' who were not under the direct control of the Church itself. That changed in the 1970s, I believe, but until then, a lot of people being processed were not directly affiliated with the Church of Scientology except peripherally."
Squirrels
-
"Squirrels"
As a matter of fact, such people were legit. 'Squirrel' groups were those like The Process that took some Scientology tech and revamped it to suit their own ideas and ideology. The field auditors, though, tended sooner or later to realize how off-the-wall LRH was, and played with his ideas, toning down some of the intergalactic fantasies. Da Boss grasped how this was diluting the craziness of his core belief system, and so he forced everyone into the fold. This resulted in a number of bankruptcies, since the auditors couldn't keep the money they made any more (many were deep in hock for borrowing to finance their own processing earlier) and there were a lot of defections.
Not alas enough, though.
EM
-
Hello! I'm sorry if reviving topics is looked down on over here, but the fact that Hubbard was influenced and on some accounts briefly studied in the same organizations as Crowley is one of the reasons I've began to read up on Heremeticism and Thelema.
I had the same general impression of Scientology as is expressed here, that by itself it is misleading, but if looked at with an outsider's perspective with better knowledge of where it borrows it's ideas one can still exctract some practical excercises which can be good for concentration and education, I'm glad to see that said here, but the insight that I found specially valuable is the idea that it provides some temporal respite in every stage but never quenches the spiritual need fully.
Do you know of any online source by the "squirrels" or anybody who has real knowledge of the techniques of Scientology? Whenever I approach Scientology I feel utterly repeled by scientologists, it seems like they're on crack all the time or something to that effect, and I feel a constant desire in them to appeal to me like that of a salesman =/ I'd rather learn about Scientology without any contact with scientologists themselves c.c.
-
@Conzei said
"...the fact that Hubbard was influenced and on some accounts briefly studied in the same organizations as Crowley is one of the reasons I've began to read up on Heremeticism and Thelema. "
Hubbard was never a member of O.T.O. (according to Order membership records, and the reports of members of that time).
Crowley influenced him more than "brief" if you accept (as I do) the testimony of Hubbard's son.
"Do you know of any online source by the "squirrels" or anybody who has real knowledge of the techniques of Scientology?"
They shouldn't be hard to find on the Web, but I don't have any links to give you. - You can also, of course, acquire LRH's books (directly from the Blue Church or from secondary sources) and get "standard tech" from the source if you're interested.
-
Very interesting thread. I had always wondered about this. I have heard this story many times from the conspiracy theorists angle. Nice to read about it from people closer to the source.