Liber E-Pranayama
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@Jim Eshelman said
"That is, Eastern culture historically has made more allowances for living a life ideally suited to meditation. But the West has a dharma more heavily invested in the world - Karma Yoga is more characteristic of the spiritual path in the West. And the training methods have been created to take into consideration that you are being (or becoming) a highly effective individual making a significant personal and professional impact on the world, improving yourself professionally and in other ways, progressively taking on more and more, multi-tasking, heavily plugged in, concerned with relationships and family - and yet still, more or less every day, persevering in spiritual practices......The pranayama should be part of it regardless..."
This has always puzzled me because just about every Western Mystery Tradition author, prime examples being, Paul Foster Case and Dion Fortune, not to mention, most Theosophical writings, warn against the danger of the average aspirant in the West practicing pranayama. Their argument always seems to be, in large part, based on their opinion that these techniques are, as you also mention above, much more suitable to the life style and spiritual environment of Eastern aspirants. Crowley is just about the only acknowledged authority of the Western Tradition who places such a large emphasis on pranayama, insisting, as you do also, "...that pranayama should be a part of it regardless". I can't help but always remember that both Crowley and Regardie (another adept who espoused pranayama practice) both suffered from asthma. Could this in any way be connected with their practices in pranayama technique?
This has always been a concern to me and a sticking point, preventing me from fully embracing the training methods as outlined by The Master Therion. I've always loved the philosophical and highly inspirational teachings of Thelema as put forth in Liber L and the other Thelemic Holy Books but have never been able to overcome the personal reticence I have towards pranayama being a valid training method for me personally. Maybe, this is just an extreme example of my fairly conservative personality and a completely personal bias? I guess, my question would be, is it wise for someone who has these doubts to attempt any pranayama practice in the hopes of overcoming a personal stumbling block or should I be concerned that this attitude of reluctance and reticence could possibly trigger any adverse physical, mental, or spiritual effects from pranayama practice?
Any insights on these matters would be appreciated.
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@RegentLynx said
"just about every Western Mystery Tradition author, prime examples being, Paul Foster Case and Dion Fortune, not to mention, most Theosophical writings, warn against the danger of the average aspirant in the West practicing pranayama."
I also am puzzled that P.F. Case advises against pranayama. (I don't recall that he warns about its being dangerous; I get the impression he just considered it a waste of time.) Case practiced pranayama assiduously for a time, so he certainly knew about its effects first-hand. He was also a close associate of William Atkinson ("Yogi Ramacharaka"), who published one of the first books in English about pranayama, The Science of Breath.
I guess the way to look at it is that some people tried it and rave about it, while others found it lacking, just as some people rave about water skiing and others couldn't be bothered.
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@gmugmble said
"I also am puzzled that P.F. Case advises against pranayama. (I don't recall that he warns about its being dangerous; I get the impression he just considered it a waste of time.)"
No. He quite specifically considered it dangerous. - But it wasn't pranayama per se, it was pranayama other than under the direct supervision of a genuinely qualified and experienced teacher.
This is easier to trace if you watch his various writings, his correspondence, and his early courses through the '20s through '40s. As best I can piece together, Case practiced "pranayama from books" - partly, if not entirely, Liber E - in the WW I era and got some extreme results from which it took him many months to recover. This then led to his repeated recommendation concerning Crowley that people should "run not walk" to read his books and assimilate his theory, but that one should not, from the same books, attempt any of the practices - and that the practices themselves should be undertaken only under the direct supervision and instruction of a genuine master of the subject.
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@Jim Eshelman said
"No. He quite specifically considered it dangerous. - But it wasn't pranayama per se, it was pranayama other than under the direct supervision of a genuinely qualified and experienced teacher.
... the practices themselves should be undertaken only under the direct supervision and instruction of a genuine master of the subject."And what is your opinion on this? Would you recommend that a person without direct supervision not attempt the practices of Liber E?
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@Jim Eshelman said
"No. He quite specifically considered it dangerous. - But it wasn't pranayama per se, it was pranayama other than under the direct supervision of a genuinely qualified and experienced teacher."
Yes, without quoting exact BOTA lesson material, this is exactly how I interpreted some of his various warnings. I too would be interested in knowing to what extent you feel these warnings should be heeded. Specifically, what would be the safest beginning practice(s) for a complete novice in pranayama who does not have ready access to a qualified teacher of Yogic disciplines?
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@RegentLynx said
"I too would be interested in knowing to what extent you feel these warnings should be heeded. Specifically, what would be the safest beginning practice(s) for a complete novice in pranayama who does not have ready access to a qualified teacher of Yogic disciplines?"
Witnessing the breath is safe. So is non-forced rhythmic breathing of the 3-fold or 4-fold breath variety.
If you're going to get much more heavily into it, then the least you should do IMHO is to have personal access to someone who knows about this stuff and report any significant phenomena as they occur.
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Thanks for your clear, succinct answer.
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I can second Case. The first thing is to do asanas to be able to do a pranayama suited sitting asana.
I jumped into pranayama with a bad sitting asana, my back bent, my knees badly put and in the end that disbalanced my body a lot. So now I'm doing asanas to get it straight.
Anyway pranayama was worthwhile because of the calmness, colour enchanting effect. Btw do the practice with yogic breath NOT normal breath - it makes it more easy.
And don't strech - in 10 min or so it gets harder to breathe. -
@Modes said
"pranayama was worthwhile because of the[...]colour enchanting effect."
I have noted this phenomenon as well...sort of like iridescent oil on water that blooms & recedes like rainbow clouds...
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Do and see for yourself.
Yogic breath @ Ashtanga yoga @ youtube.com. Breath in lower belly, upper belly, lungs. Breath out - lungs, upper belly, lower belly (after that you can do the belly bandha aka lock). Knowledge about bandhas is also good, well because, as i understand it, while doing pranayama they can be used to advantage - especialy the mula bandha. That's why I'm planing to invest into siddhasana.
Just do your yoga homework - it's of great benefit. -
Thank you. The phrase "yogic breathing" might have meant different things to different people, and I just wondered what it meant to you. Now I know.
@Modes said
"Do and see for yourself."
Yes, I continue to do, and maybe someday I shall see something. My experience to date with yoga, meditation, and ritual practices has been that I see nothing. I don't have peak experiences or anomalous sensory phenomena, or see angels or flaming stars or sylphs, or experience synchronicities or psychometric hunches or clairvoyant foreknowledge, or feel centered or grounded or empowered or at peace. I just get sore ankles. Maybe my life is to be an object lesson in avoiding the lust of result. Maybe this is why I am always asking people on these fora to detail their experiences. I'm a spiritual voyeur; I seek vicarious validation. But I continue to do; I will do my homework; and maybe I will make a greater effort to find a flesh-and-blood teacher.
Regarding color effects, I found this in Christina and Stan Grof's Stormy Search for the Self: "The sensory manifestations of Kundalini awakening can be very rich and varied. People ... often describe colorful visions of beautiful geometrical patterns, brilliant lights of supernatural beauty, and complex scenes of deities, demons, and saints." Is this what we're talking about?
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Well get some good yoga teacher to look at your asana. Doing yoga asanas could help to get your legs into shape. If you have read my posts in this thread you know I did 10/20 30min pranayama every morning. For how long do you do it?
Lust for result kills. I just sit and do because anything else is of no importance to me. I don't give a about anything just sit, do, write results.
No, no visions just a more vivid sight. Ever seen fractals (mathematics)? Look at a tree - so beautyful..
Just practice with care. -
Do what thou wilt shall be the whole of the Law.
Every once in a while I am tempted to ask whether or not some results are normal, as though it matters. Sometimes the temptation is too great:
For the past month or so whenever I practice Pranayama, an overwhelming sensation of peace and serenity washes over me during inhalation, in as few as two cycles. The words "peace" and "serenity," because of their meanings, do not seem powerful enough here. It is like being hit over the head with a large brick of peace and serenity. It's kind of neat, but I'm a little reticent because it feels a lot like I'm getting high.
So, for those who are experienced with these things, is this a stumbling block destined to distract, or a nice little bonus of the practice?
Just FYI background, I'm doing 17/17/17. I sweat a little (but I live in the desert), no rigidity, no other obvious effects.
Love is the law, love under will.
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I got the best results from pranayama when not seeking to impose a rhythm on my lungs. In the early 1980s I preceded pranayama with 25 or 30 minutes of hatha postures, and practised anuloma viloma - alternate nostril breathing with retention - for about 20 minutes after that. It's best to start out allowing the lungs and heart to dictate the rhythm of the breath, and move towards a desired ratio slowly - let it emerge. I also got away from the stopwatch or seconds-hand approach, and instead followed my heartbeat.
I would recommend the use of hatha postures on the basis of my own experiences. There is also the point that jalandrabandha or chin-lock is recommended with all but short retentions. This is easier when such postures as the plough or shoulder-stand have imparted some suppleness to the neck vertebrae.
When pursued with caution and ease, pranayama is a wonderful exercise, yielding serenity, poise, and a wondrous translucence to awareness.
Best wishes,
Michael.
