Liber E-Pranayama
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@gmugmble said
"I also am puzzled that P.F. Case advises against pranayama. (I don't recall that he warns about its being dangerous; I get the impression he just considered it a waste of time.)"
No. He quite specifically considered it dangerous. - But it wasn't pranayama per se, it was pranayama other than under the direct supervision of a genuinely qualified and experienced teacher.
This is easier to trace if you watch his various writings, his correspondence, and his early courses through the '20s through '40s. As best I can piece together, Case practiced "pranayama from books" - partly, if not entirely, Liber E - in the WW I era and got some extreme results from which it took him many months to recover. This then led to his repeated recommendation concerning Crowley that people should "run not walk" to read his books and assimilate his theory, but that one should not, from the same books, attempt any of the practices - and that the practices themselves should be undertaken only under the direct supervision and instruction of a genuine master of the subject.
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@Jim Eshelman said
"No. He quite specifically considered it dangerous. - But it wasn't pranayama per se, it was pranayama other than under the direct supervision of a genuinely qualified and experienced teacher.
... the practices themselves should be undertaken only under the direct supervision and instruction of a genuine master of the subject."And what is your opinion on this? Would you recommend that a person without direct supervision not attempt the practices of Liber E?
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@Jim Eshelman said
"No. He quite specifically considered it dangerous. - But it wasn't pranayama per se, it was pranayama other than under the direct supervision of a genuinely qualified and experienced teacher."
Yes, without quoting exact BOTA lesson material, this is exactly how I interpreted some of his various warnings. I too would be interested in knowing to what extent you feel these warnings should be heeded. Specifically, what would be the safest beginning practice(s) for a complete novice in pranayama who does not have ready access to a qualified teacher of Yogic disciplines?
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@RegentLynx said
"I too would be interested in knowing to what extent you feel these warnings should be heeded. Specifically, what would be the safest beginning practice(s) for a complete novice in pranayama who does not have ready access to a qualified teacher of Yogic disciplines?"
Witnessing the breath is safe. So is non-forced rhythmic breathing of the 3-fold or 4-fold breath variety.
If you're going to get much more heavily into it, then the least you should do IMHO is to have personal access to someone who knows about this stuff and report any significant phenomena as they occur.
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Thanks for your clear, succinct answer.
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I can second Case. The first thing is to do asanas to be able to do a pranayama suited sitting asana.
I jumped into pranayama with a bad sitting asana, my back bent, my knees badly put and in the end that disbalanced my body a lot. So now I'm doing asanas to get it straight.
Anyway pranayama was worthwhile because of the calmness, colour enchanting effect. Btw do the practice with yogic breath NOT normal breath - it makes it more easy.
And don't strech - in 10 min or so it gets harder to breathe. -
@Modes said
"pranayama was worthwhile because of the[...]colour enchanting effect."
I have noted this phenomenon as well...sort of like iridescent oil on water that blooms & recedes like rainbow clouds...
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Do and see for yourself.
Yogic breath @ Ashtanga yoga @ youtube.com. Breath in lower belly, upper belly, lungs. Breath out - lungs, upper belly, lower belly (after that you can do the belly bandha aka lock). Knowledge about bandhas is also good, well because, as i understand it, while doing pranayama they can be used to advantage - especialy the mula bandha. That's why I'm planing to invest into siddhasana.
Just do your yoga homework - it's of great benefit. -
Thank you. The phrase "yogic breathing" might have meant different things to different people, and I just wondered what it meant to you. Now I know.
@Modes said
"Do and see for yourself."
Yes, I continue to do, and maybe someday I shall see something. My experience to date with yoga, meditation, and ritual practices has been that I see nothing. I don't have peak experiences or anomalous sensory phenomena, or see angels or flaming stars or sylphs, or experience synchronicities or psychometric hunches or clairvoyant foreknowledge, or feel centered or grounded or empowered or at peace. I just get sore ankles. Maybe my life is to be an object lesson in avoiding the lust of result. Maybe this is why I am always asking people on these fora to detail their experiences. I'm a spiritual voyeur; I seek vicarious validation. But I continue to do; I will do my homework; and maybe I will make a greater effort to find a flesh-and-blood teacher.
Regarding color effects, I found this in Christina and Stan Grof's Stormy Search for the Self: "The sensory manifestations of Kundalini awakening can be very rich and varied. People ... often describe colorful visions of beautiful geometrical patterns, brilliant lights of supernatural beauty, and complex scenes of deities, demons, and saints." Is this what we're talking about?
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Well get some good yoga teacher to look at your asana. Doing yoga asanas could help to get your legs into shape. If you have read my posts in this thread you know I did 10/20 30min pranayama every morning. For how long do you do it?
Lust for result kills. I just sit and do because anything else is of no importance to me. I don't give a about anything just sit, do, write results.
No, no visions just a more vivid sight. Ever seen fractals (mathematics)? Look at a tree - so beautyful..
Just practice with care. -
Do what thou wilt shall be the whole of the Law.
Every once in a while I am tempted to ask whether or not some results are normal, as though it matters. Sometimes the temptation is too great:
For the past month or so whenever I practice Pranayama, an overwhelming sensation of peace and serenity washes over me during inhalation, in as few as two cycles. The words "peace" and "serenity," because of their meanings, do not seem powerful enough here. It is like being hit over the head with a large brick of peace and serenity. It's kind of neat, but I'm a little reticent because it feels a lot like I'm getting high.
So, for those who are experienced with these things, is this a stumbling block destined to distract, or a nice little bonus of the practice?
Just FYI background, I'm doing 17/17/17. I sweat a little (but I live in the desert), no rigidity, no other obvious effects.
Love is the law, love under will.
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I got the best results from pranayama when not seeking to impose a rhythm on my lungs. In the early 1980s I preceded pranayama with 25 or 30 minutes of hatha postures, and practised anuloma viloma - alternate nostril breathing with retention - for about 20 minutes after that. It's best to start out allowing the lungs and heart to dictate the rhythm of the breath, and move towards a desired ratio slowly - let it emerge. I also got away from the stopwatch or seconds-hand approach, and instead followed my heartbeat.
I would recommend the use of hatha postures on the basis of my own experiences. There is also the point that jalandrabandha or chin-lock is recommended with all but short retentions. This is easier when such postures as the plough or shoulder-stand have imparted some suppleness to the neck vertebrae.
When pursued with caution and ease, pranayama is a wonderful exercise, yielding serenity, poise, and a wondrous translucence to awareness.
Best wishes,
Michael.
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When I first started practicing Pranayama, I had difficulty with the way it was outlined in Liber E. Then I went back to Buddhism, and used their idea of anapanasati until years later, when I revisted Liber E, I was able to do it with ease.
Instead of "body sweeping", or after a preliminary period of this practice, mindfulness can be developed through attention on the breath.
First, follow the sensation of your ordinary breath as it flows in through the nostrils and fills the chest and abdomen. Then try maintaining your attention at one point, either at the diaphragm or - a more refined location - at the nostrils. Breath has a tranquilising quality, steady and relaxing if you don't force it; this is helped by an upright posture. Your mind may wander, but keep patiently returning to the breath.
It is not necessary to develop concentration to the point of excluding everything else except the breath. Rather than to create a trance, the purpose here is to allow you to notice the workings of the mind, and to bring a measure of peaceful clarity into it. The entire process - gathering your attention, noticing the breath, noticing that the mind has wandered, and re-establishing your attention - develops mindfulness, patience and insightful understanding. So don't be put off by apparent "failure" - simply begin again. Continuing in this way allows the mind eventually to calm down.
If you get very restless or agitated, just relax. Practice being at peace with yourself, listening to - without necessarily believing in - the voices of the mind.
If you feel drowsy, then put more care and attention into your body and posture. Refining your attention or pursuing tranquillity at such times will only make matters worse!
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C'mon, when you do pranayama without retention you clear the ida, pingala and that is good to do before going on to clearing sushuma with retention AS you can read in Liber E Crowley does.
If I break my pranayama I come back with following my breath and then doing the first pranayama count without retention in Liber E and go on... I believe it is very wise to first clear the ida & pingala. -
@Modes said
"My little experience says to me that hatha yoga asanas are essential for the begginer and precedes pranayama."
Would you care to elaborate? There are yogis who never sit still their entire lives and yet "attain."
