The sacrifice of Passions
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93!
In Thelema we are to take our passions and make them sacred, offering them up to Nuit as we fully participate. I've always read this as being positive "passions" such as love, sex, enjoyment of the senses (food, etc). But how does this play in with negative times in life? When we are depressed, angry, in physical or emotional pain, etc. How do we deal with those things in a Thelemic way? Do we offer them the same way to Nuit because there is no difference between one thing and another?
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@DavidH said
"93!
In Thelema we are to take our passions and make them sacred, offering them up to Nuit as we fully participate. I've always read this as being positive "passions" such as love, sex, enjoyment of the senses (food, etc). But how does this play in with negative times in life? When we are depressed, angry, in physical or emotional pain, etc. How do we deal with those things in a Thelemic way? Do we offer them the same way to Nuit because there is no difference between one thing and another?"
Offer them up? What exactly do you mean?
As I understand it, Thelema binds the highest to the lowest in a pillar of Love. The 'highest' inclinations are melded with the 'lowest,' the "positive" with "negative" and we may only then manifest our Will wholly. "My adepts have their feet in hell and the heads in heaven" or something like that (Liber Tzaddi). Thelema is all about bringing EVERY facet of your being into sublimated control by the Will. Everything is about the Will - every facet of your being is useful to your will - therefore mold all facets of your beings, whether you perceive them as 'positive' or 'negative', into a one-pointed lance of your Will.
IAO131
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Do what thou wilt shall be the whole of the Law,
@DavidH said
"93!
In Thelema we are to take our passions and make them sacred, offering them up to Nuit as we fully participate. I've always read this as being positive "passions" such as love, sex, enjoyment of the senses (food, etc). But how does this play in with negative times in life? When we are depressed, angry, in physical or emotional pain, etc. How do we deal with those things in a Thelemic way? Do we offer them the same way to Nuit because there is no difference between one thing and another?"
Short answer: Yes.
To give more detail, I would say that it is helpful for one to participate in the events of life they view as the "negative" and to offer those experiences up to Nuit. At a certain point on the path, however one comes to see these events as a natural part of the rapture of the unfoldment of it all. The act can induce the feeling over time, but as is pointed out by a late great teacher of eastern mysticism, Alan Watts "This is like trying to make the tail wag the dog."
What I’m saying is mysticism naturally invokes a state of mind where the practitioner feels that all events, even the one’s others would try to avoid, and which others would label “negative”, are no less marvelous than a spectacular sunrise.
It is possible to reverse engineer mysticism by believing, and through believing, to feel the unity of it all, but depending on your inclination it may be easier to just “Worship the Lady of the Lovely Star”.
For doing so is such a glorious act.
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@Almighty Creator said
"Do what thou wilt shall be the whole of the Law,
@DavidH said
"93!
In Thelema we are to take our passions and make them sacred, offering them up to Nuit as we fully participate. I've always read this as being positive "passions" such as love, sex, enjoyment of the senses (food, etc). But how does this play in with negative times in life? When we are depressed, angry, in physical or emotional pain, etc. How do we deal with those things in a Thelemic way? Do we offer them the same way to Nuit because there is no difference between one thing and another?"
Short answer: Yes.
To give more detail, I would say that it is helpful for one to participate in the events of life they view as the "negative" and to offer those experiences up to Nuit. At a certain point on the path, however one comes to see these events as a natural part of the rapture of the unfoldment of it all. The act can induce the feeling over time, but as is pointed out by a late great teacher of eastern mysticism, Alan Watts "This is like trying to make the tail wag the dog."
What I’m saying is mysticism naturally invokes a state of mind where the practitioner feels that all events, even the one’s others would try to avoid, and which others would label “negative”, are no less marvelous than a spectacular sunrise.
It is possible to reverse engineer mysticism by believing, and through believing, to feel the unity of it all, but depending on your inclination it may be easier to just “Worship the Lady of the Lovely Star”.
For doing so is such a glorious act.
"Im averse to this whole 'offering up to Nuit.' Nuit is a symbol to fulfill your uttermost potential, its not some Goddess that you offer a sacrifice to (she explicitly says she doesnt want sacrifices)... besides, one should will without lust of result, without attachment to outcome. Although this may very well be what you are saying.
IAO131
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When I say "offer up to Nuit" I'm not suggesting that anything be sacrificed. What I'm getting at is certain attitude to take towards the events of one's life.
I agree that to "Will without lust of result" is an act that will produce a result desirable to one at a certain point on the path, and specifically in regard to our topic of discussion, one should cast one's worship on Nuit without the thought that one were "seeking" the sweet fruit of the rapture.
One of the best essays on exactly this topic is given in "Dark night of the soul" by St. John of the cross. Many versions of the text can easily be found online in pdf format.
Incidentally, many of you probably know what the sweet fruit of the rapture tastes like, and I just wanted to point out that I think that this is exactly what was originally intended by the Christian term "Rapture", now horribly corrupted (IMO) to represent some temporal event. "Two will be in the field, one will be taken, the other left"
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@Almighty Creator said
"When I say "offer up to Nuit" I'm not suggesting that anything be sacrificed. What I'm getting at is certain attitude to take towards the events of one's life."
That I can wholeheartedly agree with.
"I agree that to "Will without lust of result" is an act that will produce a result desirable to one at a certain point on the path"
Actually thats not what Im saying. I am NOT saying " "Will without lust of result" is an act that will produce a result desirable to one at a certain point on the path"... it actually has to do wit your attitude towards whether the result is achieved or not. If the result is achieved to whatever degree or not, still one should have no attachment, no lust of any specific result. One should accept whatever happens, whatever change comes. This is Karma Yoga and it is good Magick too.
"Incidentally, many of you probably know what the sweet fruit of the rapture tastes like, and I just wanted to point out that I think that this is exactly what was originally intended by the Christian term "Rapture", now horribly corrupted (IMO) to represent some temporal event. "Two will be in the field, one will be taken, the other left""
Welcome to Gnosticism.
IAO131
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Do what thou wilt shall be the whole of the Law
@aum418 said
"Actually thats not what Im saying. I am NOT saying " "Will without lust of result" is an act that will produce a result desirable to one at a certain point on the path"... it actually has to do wit your attitude towards whether the result is achieved or not. If the result is achieved to whatever degree or not, still one should have no attachment, no lust of any specific result. One should accept whatever happens, whatever change comes. This is Karma Yoga and it is good Magick too.
IAO131"
There must be a break in communication here, Your post seems to say what I was getting at. I agree with you completely.
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@Almighty Creator said
"Do what thou wilt shall be the whole of the Law
@aum418 said
"Actually thats not what Im saying. I am NOT saying " "Will without lust of result" is an act that will produce a result desirable to one at a certain point on the path"... it actually has to do wit your attitude towards whether the result is achieved or not. If the result is achieved to whatever degree or not, still one should have no attachment, no lust of any specific result. One should accept whatever happens, whatever change comes. This is Karma Yoga and it is good Magick too.
IAO131"
There must be a break in communication here, Your post seems to say what I was getting at. I agree with you completely."
The subtle difference is that you seem to be saying that 'willing without lust of result' is willing the act towards a certain desireable result, but my whole point is that any result is 'desireable,' especially if you have no lust/attachment to results. Yes, I think we agree on most subjects though.
IAO131
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@aum418 said
"The subtle difference is that you seem to be saying that 'willing without lust of result' is willing the act towards a certain desireable result, but my whole point is that any result is 'desireable,' especially if you have no lust/attachment to results. Yes, I think we agree on most subjects though.
IAO131"
I agree. All results are desirable. I was about to change desirable to something else, but I think it fits. If we merely move forward and "take whatever comes" life seems to be sort of meh. But rather let us revel in the moment, whatever that moment is!!
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@Almighty Creator said
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@aum418 said
"The subtle difference is that you seem to be saying that 'willing without lust of result' is willing the act towards a certain desireable result, but my whole point is that any result is 'desireable,' especially if you have no lust/attachment to results. Yes, I think we agree on most subjects though.IAO131"
I agree. All results are desirable. I was about to change desirable to something else, but I think it fits. If we merely move forward and "take whatever comes" life seems to be sort of meh. But rather let us revel in the moment, whatever that moment is!!"
Yes, I think I understand. Its somewhat of a paradox that we should Will things with utmost one-pointedness and intensity yet be ultimately careless of the result. Then again, its just like any powerful energy & force in the universe: something of great intensity yet ultimately without attachment and care.
IAO131