Clarification on Dragon Asana

gmugmble

"Also, I experience little pain... because both of my legs fall asleep and go numb. This seems like it would be typical, but no one has mentioned it, so I thought I would."

Leg numbness used to be a big problem for me. After about 15 minutes in any kind of cross-legged posture (lotus, half-lotus, hemi-semi-demi-lotus, whatever), my legs would be totally numb; after the session, moving my legs would be very painful, and sometimes I couldn't stand up for several minutes. It made me afraid to meditate for longer periods of time.

When I started practicing the Dragon asana, I had the same problem at first, but it gradually went away. Now the only excuse I have for not practicing for longer periods of time is laziness.

So that's my personal experience. I wish I had some good suggestions for you, but here is all I've got:

Maybe the problem will just go away after a while. I speculate that over time, I've learned to hold my leg muscles tauter so that I'm not just sitting with all my weight on my feet, and so I'm not blocking blood flow or pinching nerves or whatever it is that causes the numbness.
Maybe you should wear looser clothing or thinner clothing or something.
Try slight adjustments in the posture. For a while, I found it easier to modify the Dragon so that my feet were crossed, one over the bottom of the other. I no longer do that, but it seemed to help for a while.
Try a different posture altogether. You're a Thelemite after all -- sit as thou wilt The important thing seems to be a stable posture with a straight back.

Steve Hagen, in Meditation Now or Never (which I think is a pretty intimidating title for a Buddhist!) says, "In thirty years of teaching meditation, I've never seen or heard of a single case of gangrene or phlebitis caused by sitting meditation." Whew! Sets your mind at ease, doesn't it? He says a little numbness is normal but excessive numbness (such as I experienced) is not good. He suggests trying a different position, or using cushions.

Modest

I used to put my left foot big toe on the right one. That's how I disbalanced my body. Pranayama got harder with the left nostril. I made my feet even but still I felt the disbalance.
Instead of siting like a triangle (knees spread) I tried it straight (btw Crowley's photo shows it straight), the balance got better but after a while I saw I was sitting too much on the left and I couldn't feel the disbalance!
Now I'm doing zen bowing 108 times - it helps to steadily regain balance in my Dragon posture...

Petter93

An excellent book has been published on the "physical effects" (sorry my bad english) of the asanas, its called The Anatomy of Hatha yoga by H. David Coulter.

93 93/93.

Fr. P.

daredevil92103

ok, i'm probably wrong but in Liber E i think A.C. says:
" 1. You must learn to sit perfectly still with every muscle tense for long periods."
i thought the point of asana is to master the body so that you control it and dont let it control you.
personally, i sit in the dragon, every muscle as tense as i can, and fully concentrate on my body. this of course makes if fairly difficult, but i think it is the quickest way to become master over ones body.
just my opinion.

Jim Eshelman

"Tense" is misleading. In a later writing - probably 8 Lectures, but I'm guessing at that - Crowley suggested "braced" was the better word.

The idea is that you are vigilant and actively holding the body in the position; but it isn't (say) an ongoing isometric struggle such as "tense" might imply.

daredevil92103

thanks as always Jim for clearing up things for me.
that will help a lot in my asana practice.
the main idea is still to keep focused on the body and not to give in to the urge to move, to master the body, right?
i never have read eight lectures yet.

Jim Eshelman

Yes.

Ultimately, the goal is to be able to sit for long periods of time in meditation without the body interfering. The rest (in addition to the advantage of having an indirect training in persistence and will) is just a matter of technique. What one goes through to gain this ability is not exactly how one uses it later - but the initial training is important.

daredevil92103

that is def. what i want to get from it, Jim. i'm trying to take things very slow and master them as best as possible, starting in Liber E. i dont want to rush things for sure. i'm kinda fortunate in a way that it will be some time before i meet my neophyte, as it gives me more time to get the foundations in place. i know that mastery of my body and mind will be essential to my work leadng to conversation with my holy guardian angel, and the great work as a whole. i have been interested in the A' A' for well over a decade now, but just got up the nerve to write them earlier this year. i have been getting some strange effects from asana tho. recently i have noticed that i hop a bit, and feel an intense heat, tho it doesnt cause me to sweat. i'm not sure if these are bad or good signs, and i try to ignore them and just take note of them.

Jim Eshelman

Those effects, especially at this stage, are probably purely physical.

These, and some similar (and more extreme) phenomena, can be the result of kundalini starting to accelerate. The four traditional phenomena ascribed to pranayama are, in fact, consequent to preliminary kundalini rising (of which pranayama can be a trigger) - but, personally, I got these phenomena more easily from asana. (This likely varies per person.)

Especially the way you've been practicing this until now, this level is probably purely physiological. It's easier to evaluate one's results dispassionately if one first learns to distinguish physical from metaphysical results

DavidH

@Jim Eshelman said

""Tense" is misleading. In a later writing - probably 8 Lectures, but I'm guessing at that - Crowley suggested "braced" was the better word.

The idea is that you are vigilant and actively holding the body in the position; but it isn't (say) an ongoing isometric struggle such as "tense" might imply."

I've started yoga recently and the term the teacher uses for this is to have the muscles "activated."

David

daredevil92103

i do think they are physical, from the tension i have been keeping in my muscles. i'm going to ease up on that part of my asana. but as for metaphysical things, i try to record them, but not get caught up in them.
of course as always thank you for advice. i need as much as i can get. and Thank you David H. between the three different words i have gotten a better grasp of what was meant in Liber E.